Motivations for being a fascist

I kind of use the old HoI2 sliders for what a facist is.

Basically hard right authoritarian regime with command economy vs Nazi, right wing authoritarian vs conservative vs free market/libertarian etc.

All authortarian regimes share similar things eg focus on military, secret police etc.

One can have a run of the mill right wing authoritarian state that's not fascist although it might share some similarities eg a police state.
 
Repression and enforced conformity through violence is not unique to fascism, but it's an important part of it. The OP was about the motivations, and this angry desire to force others to think and do what you want them to do is definitely one of the major motivations for ALL authoritarian thinking, fascism included.
The problem here is "fascism included" doesn't mean "automatically fascist", but that's what you're gravitating to in placing these labels on others. It's an important distinction!
Small corrections :
- First, calling others "fascists" at the drop of the hat is actually a dominant feature of the people I tend to clash with, so yeah "funny" indeed that you somehow manage to miss this. Mine is more to point at how they claim to hate fascists, but their thinking process tend to align, and the quote I commented is a perfect example.
- Second, did you actually read the quote ? Because "I believe openly in the use of state terror to destroy organized political conservatism in my country" doesn't require any sort of "thought extremism" to see definite fascist-leaning in it.

You really do seem to make a lot of efforts to twist it in a way that fits what you want to see. Caffeine deficit indeed, it seems you do need mental preparation to not get down on bad faith.
I'm not twisting anything. It's an opinion, and one I figured you'd disagree with strongly. On this kind of subject we often do. The difference is I'm able to respect that disagreement. It doesn't mean I'm acting in bad faith, and it say something about you that you basically defaulted to that accusation.

I know what you perceive as a stereotype of others. It's funny because you're doing the same thing. The problem is you believe your logic sound enough that the label is defensible, and theirs not. But it's reductive. Because not everyone you clash with applies the label "at the drop of a hat". It comes down to semantics and what you interpret as being fascistic vs. what others might. I've read the threads, I've participated in enough of them.

It ultimately boils down to this (as does most disagreements across time and space, I'm not putting you down here). Your logic is sound, or "right", because your semantics make sense to you, and the logic of others isn't, or is "wrong", because it doesn't (either make sense, or is flat-out disagreeable). But there's little effort to understand the difference in semantics (from my perspective).

So yeah, funny. I don't expect to change your mind, but this is my take on it, so I'm posting it. And yes, I read Lexicus' post. I wanted to explore it further but I ran out of time and the thread (seemingly) moved on. The use of state terror, again, isn't explicitly fascist. It's authoritarian, in my opinion, but that just takes us back to the top of this post I've written.
 
The problem here is "fascism included" doesn't mean "automatically fascist", but that's what you're gravitating to in placing these labels on others. It's an important distinction!
Don't know if you're purposely missing the point or not, considering what I said is pretty clear. But let's sum it up for additional clarity.
OP : "what are the motivations for being fascist ?"
Lexicus : "I'm angry at people who don't share my political opinion and think they should be crushed by state violence to force them to do it my way".
Me : "Here is a fitting answer to the OP question".
That this motivation is not strictly reserved to fascism itself, but to the whole slew of authoritarian mentalities of which fascism is a specific flavor is not the point. The point is that it's a pretty good example of motivations that leads people to authoritarism in general, including fascism. It's a key motivation.
I'm not twisting anything. It's an opinion, and one I figured you'd disagree with strongly. On this kind of subject we often do. The difference is I'm able to respect that disagreement. It doesn't mean I'm acting in bad faith, and it say something about you that you basically defaulted to that accusation.
You're trying to imply that saying "this looks a lot like fascism" when someone say "I believe openly in the use of state terror to destroy organized political conservatism in my country." is "thought extremism". That stretch believability quite a bit to not be labeled as "bad faith" here, and I'm not even taking into account the long history of having people holding such views being the ones to throw "fascism" around for additional irony.
 
Don't know if you're purposely missing the point or not, considering what I said is pretty clear. But let's sum it up for additional clarity.
OP : "what are the motivations for being fascist ?"
Lexicus : "I'm angry at people who don't share my political opinion and think they should be crushed by state violence to force them to do it my way".
Me : "Here is a fitting answer to the OP question".
That this motivation is not strictly reserved to fascism itself, but to the whole slew of authoritarian mentalities of which fascism is a specific flavor is not the point. The point is that it's a pretty good example of motivations that leads people to authoritarism in general, including fascism. It's a key motivation.
I'm sure it is. But it's not exclusively fascist, which is my entire point. I expand on this more in the second half of this post.

Also, "political opinion" is a very, very relaxed way of "supporting or not supporting things that can end peoples' lives". But you wouldn't know, because you didn't bother asking Lexicus the specifics.
You're trying to imply that saying "this looks a lot like fascism" when someone say "I believe openly in the use of state terror to destroy organized political conservatism in my country." is "thought extremism". That stretch believability quite a bit to not be labeled as "bad faith" here, and I'm not even taking into account the long history of having people holding such views being the ones to throw "fascism" around for additional irony.
No, I'm saying criticising people for labelling others "at the drop of a hat" when you basically did the same thing is funny. And also "thought extremism". Your whole thing is people using "extreme" words when lesser ones would suffice*. Defaulting to interpreting Lexicus' comment as a motivation for (him) being fascist is defaulting to the most extreme interpretation (given that there are others).

I mean, ultimately, you dropped in with a low-effort (possibly joke-y) thing. Nothing wrong with that. I responded in kind. That's when you took issue. That's where this tangent really kicked off.

EDIT

* or exaggerating for the sake of effect, and so on, and so forth. My point is simple: you're rushing to the most dramatic interpretation of a post. This is something you get irritated at when people do it to you, or people ideologically-similar (on a given subject) to yourself.

The repeated attempts to accuse me of bad faith don't exactly help either.
 
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Lexicus : "I'm angry at people who don't share my political opinion and think they should be crushed by state violence to force them to do it my way".
The OP said almost literally the same in the very first post. Yes, it's ironical.
 
Also, "political opinion" is a very, very relaxed way of "supporting or not supporting things that can end peoples' lives". But you wouldn't know, because you didn't bother asking Lexicus the specifics.
:lol:
It's funny to see the amount of leeway you're willing to give to some people, contrasted with the amount of scrutiny you give to others. I'm sure you'll say it's about "recognizing patterns" in said people, but then that's the pattern I see with you : going to nitpick the smallest details in one case, overlooking the blatant in the other.
No, I'm saying criticising people for labelling others "at the drop of a hat" when you basically did the same thing is funny.
You have a weird and strangely self-serving way to describe "drop of a hat" here, because openly advocating authoritarianism doesn't fit the bill.
Your whole thing is people using "extreme" words when lesser ones would suffice.
No, it's about concepts, not words. That shows an absolutely fundamental misunderstanding in the very basis of the reasoning, and considering how often we had this conversation, it's not a misunderstanding that I can believe is honest in any way.
Just a continuation of the incredible double standards noticed above.
 
:lol:
It's funny to see the amount of leeway you're willing to give to some people, contrasted with the amount of scrutiny you give to others. I'm sure you'll say it's about "recognizing patterns" in said people, but then that's the pattern I see with you. Going to nitpick the smallest details in one case, overlooking the blatant in the other.
I mean, sure. We all have our biases, we all have posters we've discussed certain things more with, and others less with. Like I said, I wanted to explore what Lexicus meant, but missed my window of opportunity at the time. You on the other hand opted for judgement. But in other cases, where you present leeway that you're willing to give people, it's the other way around.

The reason for this is simple: like I said, we all have our biases. Problem is you don't seem aware of yours. I like and trust a lot of Lexicus' arguments - that's my bias here. That's why I wanted to explore it more even if I would've ended up disagreeing.
You have a weird and strangely self-serving way to describe "drop of a hat" here, because openly advocating authoritarianism doesn't fit the bill.
Would you prefer "selectively and arguably hypocritically" instead? :D I doubt that, because you'd take it as a personal attack, and then this discussion would go even less constructively than it is right now.

To try and explain this further: I disagree with your description of people who use the word "fascist" at the drop of a hat. You disagree with my use of it. So how to do we explain, to each other - two people predisposed to disagreement on this subject generally - the gap between these disagreements?
No, it's about concepts, not words. That shows an absolutely fundamental misunderstanding in the very basis of the reasoning, and considering how often we had this conversation, it's not a misunderstanding that I can believe is honest in any way.
Just a continuation of the incredible double standards noticed above.
Okay, so you're about concepts and not the precise word used. That's fair. It's still a leap from authoritarianism to fascism. An arguable one for sure.

I mean, I think you overestimate my ability to categorise every past discussion we've ever had in some kind of internal database. I have a baby daughter (and other children), as well as a bunch of symptoms that fit long Covid. My memory is shot these days. I pride myself on having a good history of my discussions with other posters, and you're included in that. But it's not absolute. So you separating out "concepts" vs. "words" is useful. Helpful.

Assuming that I'm being dishonest in any way is not. As are any unrealistic standards you impose on me for not apparently remembering in perfect detail past iterations of this conversation.

So, back to concepts for a minute. What is the difference here, now, between the concept of fascism vs. someone being a fascist? What am I missing in your reasoning that lets you call people fascist-adjacent, but doesn't let others do the same? Is it simply because you've made it relevant to the OP of this thread; the opening question? Which renders it a concept to be argued, vs. a word applied as a label? Am I anywhere near the right understanding?
 
Kind of extreme to think that some people who you have expressed opposition to, politically, are in fact ALL insincere in their beliefs. Its not that you misunderstand them, its that they are either stupid or dishonest, implying malice???

But oh well....
 
Hey, you managed to actually answer the question in the OP, though probably unwittingly.

This is a fallacy known as a category error. Authoritarianism and fascism are not the same thing.

OP : "what are the motivations for being fascist ?"
Lexicus : "I'm angry at people who don't share my political opinion and think they should be crushed by state violence to force them to do it my way".
Me : "Here is a fitting answer to the OP question".

Yeah, I mean, this is a fair point. This could certainly be a motivation for being a fascist.

I would ask you a question in return: do you believe that all political opinions are equally worthy? If you said that you want to have the state repress violent Jihadists in your country, for example, would that make you a fascist?
 
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The reason for this is simple: like I said, we all have our biases. Problem is you don't seem aware of yours. I like and trust a lot of Lexicus' arguments - that's my bias here. That's why I wanted to explore it more even if I would've ended up disagreeing.
Bullcrap. I'm very aware of my bias, that's the very reason why I'm a moderate and not an extremist. One doesn't care about moderation when one is not aware of his own shortcomings.
You just give me the impression of using this "we all have our bias" as an excuse to keep at it with such massive double standards.
This is a fallacy known as a category error. Authoritarianism and fascism are not the same thing.
Yes, but that's not really important here, because it's more about an illustration of the general idea. The OP was about incomprehension at how people can embrace fascism in general and what can lead them to that. Something like "These people support authoritarianism and the crushing of any form of political activism and extra-judicial detention of any inconvenient groups, which they consider a danger to stability.". Your answer frame the mindset that leads to that.
I would ask you a question in return: do you believe that all political opinions are equally worthy? If you said that you want to have the state repress violent Jihadists in your country, for example, would that make you a fascist?
Of course not, not all political opinions are equally worthy (that's actually the main difficulty in behind a "moderate", trying to keep an open mind without falling into moral relativism). Also, the reasons to hold an opinion (and the way the opinion is constructed) tend to be vastly more significant than the opinion itself.
 
Something like "These people support authoritarianism and the crushing of any form of political activism and extra-judicial detention of any inconvenient groups, which they consider a danger to stability.". Your answer frame the mindset that leads to that.

Maybe so, but I would counter that I don't want to repress most of the people in the US I disagree with. I disagree strenuously with people like Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden and Joe Manchin (or @Drakle) on this forum, but I can agree to disagree with them on some level. I can imagine sharing a liberal "public space" with them. The Republicans? Not so much. I would rather fight than live in the world they want to make.
 
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Bullcrap. I'm very aware of my bias, that's the very reason why I'm a moderate and not an extremist. One doesn't care about moderation when one is not aware of his own shortcomings.
You just give me the impression of using this "we all have our bias" as an excuse to keep at it with such massive double standards.
And yet you have no answer when presented with your own apparent double standards. Or even any of the other stuff where I was genuinely trying to understand where you were coming from. I even explained my bias and how it's relevant to this discussion. All you're doing is what Senethro pointed out.

You don't want to participate, that's fine. If all you want to do is gotcha the people you've already decided are wrong, cool. Just get off your moral high horse about other peoples' apparent lack of "good faith" if this level of nitpicking is all you're good for. Again, funny. In an ironic way.
 
Bullcrap. I'm very aware of my bias, that's the very reason why I'm a moderate and not an extremist. One doesn't care about moderation when one is not aware of his own shortcomings.

One weird trick to escape cognitive bias (Psychologists and Philosophers Hate him!)
 
The far right Republicans are the American Taliban, just like the Jihadists are the extreme of Islam.

This is an absolutely baseless claim. Your painting a bunch of normal Americans with a very wide brush.

Just because you may have encountered a few bad apples, doesn't make the whole bunch rotten.
 
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