MrGameTheory Strategic analysis of Civ 5

[Madprofe55or]

So MGT tells everyone they're not using their imagination or exploring enough "tangents" while only really touting one (what he thinks is) good strategy. Where is the imagination?

Really though, MGT. If you're only playing with the purpose to climb some MP ladder (really big deal imho) then you've turned a game into a job. Have fun with that. Ur Da Bestest!

Meanwhile, the rest of us actually probably will play with imaginations, trying new things and weird strategies against our squishy human enemies, have fun doing it, probably not in anyone's Top 20 or Top 10 or Top Anything list even...and NOT care.

 

[WeaselSlapper]

I agree with MrGameTheory to a point. I do believe that Civ V will be a lot more defensive, especially in early eras then previous Civ games for the simple fact that cities can fight back. Since cities now have strength it will be a lot harder to take early cities.

However, I don't think that his defensive strategy will not be as unbeatable as he thinks. In the stream that was played it took Treb two attacks to take out a unit, so my guess is that a normal archery unit will take at least four to make a kill meaning that more powerful melee units will have time to overcome the gap and still be able to kill the archer. Combine a single strong melee unit with an archer behind to weaken the scout and I think his archer scouts will be easily overrun, especially if there's some sort of 'Cover' promotion to shield against ranged attacks.

As to his point about being able to buy units, from the video, buying any sort of mass units would be cost prohibitive. In the demo the cost of the units was high and without barb colonies and ruins there won't be a good source of that much gold early on.

The other thing we don't know yet is what the unit cap would be. If there's a unit cap of three or four military units per city early (like it seemed from the demo) he won't be able to make the mass archers/scouts he would need to be able to defend against a warrior/chariot rush.

Overall I do think his strategy will be viable, I'm not yet convinced that it we be the pure dominance he thinks it is, but we will see how everything balances when the game in released.

 

[TheMystic]

MGT's imagination in Civ: Rev only stretched as far as a Roman multi city strategy. Once Firaxis patched it he left the game for good, and never tried to explore the rest of the strategic options. I can foresee him pulling the same sort of stunt if he manages to identify a major imbalance.

 

[Cashew]

MGT, did they kick you out of the C4P league finally? Why the hell are you posting here?

 

[Bibor]

As to his point about being able to buy units, from the video, buying any sort of mass units would be cost prohibitive. In the demo the cost of the units was high and without barb colonies and ruins there won't be a good source of that much gold early on.

I think Greg showed that the support is based on several factors, of which (1)total population and (2)number of cities is just two of. But what we did see is that promotions and upgrades are much more significant than they were in CIV4. That single super-promoted trebuchet killed off a full rifleman unit in 1 turn (granted it had over a 100 promo points, but still).

 

[Madprofe55or]

My point is that if MGT is playing the game multiple times a day using only one strategy to achieve the same goal (MP rankings) then it's just like any job one has IRL. I guess I don't want my games to feel like jobs. I feel sorry for those who do so, and tie their performance of such games to their general worth as human beings...so very sad.

 

[WeaselSlapper]

I think Greg showed that the support is based on several factors, of which (1)total population and (2)number of cities is just two of. But what we did see is that promotions and upgrades are much more significant than they were in CIV4. That single super-promoted trebuchet killed off a full rifleman unit in 1 turn (granted it had over a 100 promo points, but still).

Yes I did oversimplify the military support. But in the demo game he had like 5 or 6 fully developed cities and if I remember right he had a hard unit cap of just under 30. So early on each small city will probably only be able to support 2-3 units.

As far as the trebuchet killing the rifleman in one turn, it still took two shots. He just got the promotion at 100 exp that allowed him to shoot multiple times per turn so I would imagine that early archery units won't be as useful for killing as they will be for softening for a melee attack.

 

[krunsh]

To the OP:

What you say realy seems to be on the point of view of a professional multiplayer gamer. I'm sorry that Civ 5 has turned out this way for you (If you are right...). But seriously, I doubt that I'll even notice any of these flaws or have the chance to abuse them.

I play with friends online or solo, sometime try to play random game online and I'm pretty sure most of the Civ player who actualy play online (not a majority) are like me (could be wrong...).

I think the games look very well made and I'll be enjoying it a lot more than Civ 4 (wich I do consider to be kind of exhausting.). I think you are a minority and this will not realy affect the game sales, and since no reviewer are taking civ as seriously as you do... I'm pretty sure I'll will get very good score just like Civ 4 and sell very well and stays around for a very long time.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not judging you, you like to play this way and that's fine.

 

[Boris Godunov]

btw, watch that youtube video from earlier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axdm90r-cow
it is quite amusing. (it is from the perspective of someone playing mgt).

I only mention it as mgt requested that people google his name, and it is a playthrough of mgt's skills at civ revolution.

lol ragequit!

 

[Madprofe55or]

Moderator Action: *snip*

 

[Alsark]

wearing a BK paper crown

Hey! What's wrong with that?!

 

[TheMystic]

That youtube link doesn't work for me for some reason, but I managed to capture a Civ Rev game against MGT (and another top player) back in 2008 where you can see him doing his Roman megacity strat. He almost always ran the clock timer too, even in the early years so that he could save his moves where they'd be back to back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpQeRy1mHJ0

It was one of the worst Zulu starts I could have had, but he still got hammered. As mentioned, once the Romans were patched he left the community for good.

 

[krunsh]

I usually don't say anything to players like that, but since MGT has decided to spread his vast knowledge of all things strat in his bloated, inference-ridden, Nostradamus-like, condescending OP (all the while I'm imagining him wearing a BK paper crown stroking himself while he re-reads his posts to remind himself how totally awesome he is) I have judged him.

sshhhh... not to loud

Lol, I know what you mean, I had a lot of fun in game like Counter strikes or TF2 for the same reason as you.

Funny people... That they are...

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Glad to see MGT has remained consistant anyway

CS

 

[Madprofe55or]

Hey! What's wrong with that?!

Sorry. How about just a generic old newspaper crown?

 

[Abremms]

so I'v been looking forward to trying out some MP with civ V, but if MGT exemplifies the kind of people i'll encounter online, i think i will stay offline. I prefer to play the game for the sake of the game, winning is secondary. and all this meta-gaming... I'v done it before with other games and it inevitably ruins the experience.

are there people who play online to have a fun game? i.e. not hyper competitive playing to win with whatever the current flavor of the month exploit strat is?

 

[krunsh]

so I'v been looking forward to trying out some MP with civ V, but if MGT exemplifies the kind of people i'll encounter online, i think i will stay offline. I prefer to play the game for the sake of the game, winning is secondary. and all this meta-gaming... I'v done it before with other games and it inevitably ruins the experience.

are there people who play online to have a fun game? i.e. not hyper competitive playing to win with whatever the current flavor of the month exploit strat is?

Me, and I also hope that I can have some fun online. Only a few of the game I,ve played online with random people were fun. Most of the time there are known strategy like rushing for iron and end the game very quickly.

I have nothing against a warmonger winning the game in the medieval era sometimes... But it's kinda boring if all player only play this way when the game as so much more to offer.

 

[Madprofe55or]

Me, and I also hope that I can have some fun online. Only a few of the game I,ve played online with random people were fun. Most of the time there are known strategy like rushing for iron and end the game very quickly.

I have nothing against a warmonger winning the game in the medieval era sometimes... But it's kinda boring if all player only play this way when the game as so much more to offer.

We'll have to play together, since I am with you 100% on your last statement there.

And I think that the majority of online players are not like MGT, so any mainly-casual players that want to get together for a game, I'm with ya.

 

[Insanity_X]

Now look, I'm not a great Civ player, but I have spent time as a competitive level pokemon battler (I don't know if I should laugh or cry at that) and a phrase that is particularly relavent to this conversation is "Don't play Theorymon". What is meant by this is that what seems very strong in theory might not turn out to be so in practice.

Essentially, don't make guesses about how the game will be played until you've actually played it.

 

[Abremms]

We'll have to play together, since I am with you 100% on your last statement there.

And I think that the majority of online players are not like MGT, so any mainly-casual players that want to get together for a game, I'm with ya.

if thats the case then i won't write off MP quite so quickly. not sure how matchmaking will work, but i hope there is a way to tell the hyper-competitive apart from more casual players, so as to make more enjoyable games.