MrGameTheory's breakdown of the Civ5 PDF manual.. :)

[Schuesseled]

The only question is if your science hits negative numbers. But gold is used for so many things that you'd have plenty of other problems. Actually, short of it being very early in the game, a shortage would lead to plenty of problems simply by virtue of not being able to buy things.

As greg once said, if you get to that point you might as well quit. He had never even managed to do that, so you have to be doing extremly poorly to bottom out your research as well.

 

[Schuesseled]

All that occupied means is that you have a military unit in a city.

Your thinking of garrisoned.

 

[sghiminini]

Since your friend and hero....

You are not my friend, and you are definitely NOT my hero....

 

[Schuesseled]

Sorry I meant to put 3-4 not 3-3. I was too tired to edit my own post last night … As far as I am aware you will not find wheat or any other food resources on floodplains.





Where did you read that defense is not altered by health for all units?

Wheat can be found on floodplains and plains.

even 3 to 4 isn't right there are at least two techs that increase the yield of farms

It was a little above or below the section of text you got that quote from, sorry did not realise you had not quoted that bit too.

 

[DalekDavros]

More cities increases the cost of social policies for every civilization, but for France the special ability helps to cope with this reality and in doing so provides a huge benefit for France.

France's ability is linear in number of cities while the increase in social policy cost increase is exponential. Nothing subexponential can cope with exponential growth for long.

Wheat can be found on floodplains and plains.

even 3 to 4 isn't right there are at least two techs that increase the yield of farms

Civil Service improves farms with Fresh Water, while Fertilizer improves farms without Fresh Water, so a given farm can't have the bonus from both techs simultaneously. So AFAICT, the max will be 5.

 

[iop]

18: Stonehenge is powerful, but very risky. 120 hammers is a ton early game (more than a settler and a scout together), and what happens if you lose the race? Aren't you just screwed? It'll have its place, but I don't think the risk of going for it can be overstated.

Well, going for an early stonehenge is exactly what I'll try with the French - once I have aristocracy (which I'll get around turn 21) so that it only effectively costs me 80 hammers, i.e. 50% more than the monument.

France's ability is linear in number of cities while the increase in social policy cost increase is exponential. Nothing subexponential can cope with exponential growth for long.

France's ability is indeed just making expansion hurt less early on. Also, assuming cities with monuments, France's cultural borders will expand twice as fast as those of other civs, so it's still pretty neat for expansion.

 

[iskar]

MrGametheory,

I would be really interessted in your opinion on my reply on page 2. did i read your orininal post wrong or did i misunderstand the manual or could it be that you are wrong.
Please note that I do not want to irritate anyone here, I just ask since i am interested and would like to discuss this subject.
my post was:
interesting. I do want to point one thing out though.
in point 1 you state:scout loophole can be manipulated by surrounding an enemy unit with cheap scouts and then attacking the unit with ranged units.

in the manual however it says that the flanking bonus counts for melee combat (page 56) in the ranged combat section however it doesnt say anything about flanking bonus. (page 57)

As I stated, I am interested in your opinion on this matter

 

[bjbrains]

So where do I start? I guess I'll start with the completely wrong statements:

All that occupied means is that you have a military unit in a city

No, it means a city you've taken over via conquest. The manual isn't specific about this, but it's what courthouses do. There is no penalty for garrisoning a city (In fact, you get a benefit from it with honor).

Where did you read that defense is not altered by health for all units?

The manual. Read it more carefully. It says nothing about the strength being altered, only how HP reduces the damage the unit deals. Watch videos. Pay attention. Seriously. You make all these assumptions without paying attention to evidence. Instead, you spin off conclusions based on your own theories.

When do I acknowledge that agriculture is not free? I put it as the first tec on all my list. Just because I put the beaker cost next to it that does not mean that I will develop a tec path where agriculture does not come first lol. I also put the beaker count next to tecs so players could have an idea of when they could expect to get to the next tec based on average populations and yields.

Tech. Not tech. Also, you list in a 'tech order'. Why would you list something that is constant and has no beaker cost?

Cities do not attack every unit that gets near to it. Also in 1 turn and with chariot archers it will be possible to completely pillage a city. Pillaging is worth more in Civ V because of the lenght of time it takes to build improvements.

Stop changing the scenario. You were talking about how losing an early unit would make you helpless against pillaging.

Lets try to keep it civil.

Hypocrisy is funny, no? You still didn't actually address my statement though.

Chariot archers will defend at 6 strength when attacked by ranged units like archers. The whole point of the chariot archers is that they are cheaper and can go in to deliver the finishing blow on weakened units. You can also claim something is overpowered without playing it if you understand what is being discussed.

No, no they don't. Read the manual. The attacking unit's ranged combat strength is compared to the defending units combat strength. They will defend at strength 3. And you're completely misrepresenting what you said. You were talking about how they were overpowered and too good in general and how you could rush with 1-5 chariot archers.

The whole point was to develop a tec rush that gets to stone hedge first.

You aren't rushing calender in either build, so I don't think this makes sense at all.

Please support all arguments if possible. What civ do you believe should be valued higher and where should it be placed on the list and why?

Read what I said. I'm obviously talking about Germany. And you still don't address how you have any authority/knowledge to make a hard ranking system.

TL;DR:
Read the manual more, watch videos, and ask for clarification before you go out and make incorrect conclusions (And then try to hide them by making excuses). Oh, and people might be more civil to you if you weren't so pompous.

 

[MrGameTheory]

MrGametheory,

I would be really interessted in your opinion on my reply on page 2. did i read your orininal post wrong or did i misunderstand the manual or could it be that you are wrong.
Please note that I do not want to irritate anyone here, I just ask since i am interested and would like to discuss this subject.
my post was:
interesting. I do want to point one thing out though.
in point 1 you state:scout loophole can be manipulated by surrounding an enemy unit with cheap scouts and then attacking the unit with ranged units.

in the manual however it says that the flanking bonus counts for melee combat (page 56) in the ranged combat section however it doesnt say anything about flanking bonus. (page 57)

As I stated, I am interested in your opinion on this matter

As far as I am aware the flanking bonus applies to scouts unless someone can show me otherwise. If you can prove otherwise or show me where a 2k staff member acknowledged what you are saying. I will surely give props where they are due and change my opinion

 

[Schuesseled]

You make all these assumptions without paying attention to evidence. Instead, you spin off conclusions based on your own theories.

Tech. Not tech. Also, you list in a 'tech order'. Why would you list something that is constant and has no beaker cost?

What else would you expect from a theorist? Eh?

By the way, you accidentally corrected the spelling mistake you were pointing out.

As far as I am aware the flanking bonus applies to scouts unless someone can show me otherwise. If you can prove otherwise or show me where a 2k staff member acknowledged what you are saying. I will surely give props where they are due and change my opinion

He was saying that he believes that flanking only applies to melee combat which would include scouts but exclude archers. And I'm pretty sure he's not right.

 

[sghiminini]

Actually I have put some serious thought into designing a unique Civ game that is different enough to be worthy to be the next civ, easy enough to be playable by the masses, and strategic enough to be universally praised as the best strategy game available.. This game is based on a single player audience while also addressing an untapped MP market """without adding to the cost of making the single player game."" My opinion is a little biased , but I am confident that it would reach my expectations.

Do you like fish sticks?

Moderator Action: And is there a point to this remark? Or are you just trolling?

 

[trogman44]

I like how he casually glosses over my posts because he knows that I not only have him pegged, but I am more eloquent, suave and intelligent. mrgameman doesn't dare tangle with me.

 

[Schuesseled]

Do you like fish sticks?

What kind of question is that, who doesn't?

 

[bjbrains]

What else would you expect from a theorist? Eh?

By the way, you accidentally corrected the spelling mistake you were pointing out.

Rofl. I didn't even notice. Anyway, MrGameTheory, how about coming back after you've done actually research into your strategies instead of making huge assertions with no evidence (and often incorrect information). There's a difference between speculating (as in, "When will this be good? I think it would be good here.") versus absolute assertions (" This is obviously the best/only way to win. This unit is better than any other. This strategy is the best strategy).

Oh, and only addressing a handful of my points while ignoring others is not a get-out-of-jail free card.

 

[iskar]

also I wonder why no one mentions the Iroquois, they have a nice bonus if used correctly. your units can move trough a forest as if there where roads. this saves upkeep and, if youcan keep your forests near the borders you can use them for defensive purposes. a forest gives you a+25% defensive bonus which can be upgraded with drill.
plus if you plan this correctly you can retreat your units in the forests since you can move trough them as if there where roads. so in theory you could withdraw trough 2 tiles of forest and that provides some cover from ranged units (page 57 of the manual)

Line of Sight
Generally, a ranged unit must be able to “see” its target in order to be able to fire at it (although
see the “Indirect Fire” promotion). A unit cannot see a target if a blocking object is
between the two – a mountain or hill, for example, or a forest tile. A unit can always see into
a tile, even if it contains blocking terrain, but it cannot see objects in tiles past the blocking
terrain.
Note that units on hills and flying units can often see over blocking terrain

 

[Epircus]

is health no longer in the game when it comes to cities?

 

[Schuesseled]

The best way to play iroqouis would be to settle as many cities as you can in giant forests.

--

there is no health, as in wheat improves health and increases city growth, there is health as in it takes several attacks to incapacitate this city.

 

[DalekDavros]

France's ability is indeed just making expansion hurt less early on. Also, assuming cities with monuments, France's cultural borders will expand twice as fast as those of other civs, so it's still pretty neat for expansion.

Indeed. Alternatively, France can leverage the ability to delay building monuments (possibly until they're needed as the prereq for Temples). Instead of a 60 hammer monument, you could have a couple of 25 hammer scouts, which means more ruins and natural wonders.

Better yet, specialize by city. If a city is growing towards a lux/strat resource, build the monument to rush towards it faster. If a city has plenty of tiles and no especially excellent ones in the outer rings, be content with letting it grow for a while with the UA bonus only.

 

[iskar]

He was saying that he believes that flanking only applies to melee combat which would include scouts but exclude archers. And I'm pretty sure he's not right.

Since I am interested in this subject, where is the proof that there is a flanking bonus for ranged units? as far as the manual goes, I cant find any info that ranged units do get the flanked bonus.
again, I do not want to irritate people, just interested.

 

[superdudeman]

What kind of question is that, who doesn't?

I'm pissed off that we have a gay fish on this forum.

Moderator Action: How about adding some real content rather than just spamming up the threads? It appears that you get "pissed off" quite easily. I suggest that you either go elsewhere until you cool down and can post without anger or you find a new favorite word to describe your mood and make sure that it is more "content" oriented. thanks.