Mt Rushmore???

[KrikkitTwo]

Its been said before Mt. Rushmore fits perfectly into the idea of a hypernationalistic personality cult..the building of a modern patriotic myth...available for all governments (I could imagine one with Marx, Lenin and Stalin... or Maji, Tokugawa, etc. or Wilhelm, Bismark, and Hitler... or Napoleon, Joan of Arc, etc.)

 

[Ramalhão]

Statue of Liberty >>> Freedom Statue
Hoover Dam >>> Great Hydro Dam
Wall Street >>> Financial District
Pentagon >>> National Military Headquaters
Manhattan Project >>> Nuclear Weapons Project

Apollo Program >>> Space Program

I think generic names work well for most wonders than real names. In Civ3 there is a lot of generic names: The Great Lighthouse, The Great Library, The Great Wall, The Pyramids, Military Academy.

Some names changed from Civ2 to Civ3 (Michelangelo's Chapel => Sistine Chapel, Darwin's Voyage => Theory of Evolution), so maybe some names will change again, as we can see Oxford University instead of Newton's University. I prefer generic names, as it makes the game less americanized. Hollywood would become The Great Movie Industry, Eiffel Tower would become The Great Tower. But I have no ideas for a generic name for Mt Rushmore.

I also think a wonder like Arc de Trionfe instead of Heroic Epic, as it requires a victorious army and Arc de Trionfe fits better. A generic name would work well too.

 

[Slax]

Really not sure on that one i would call it Wall Street ill have to ask a few others.

In Toronto, the financial district is most often called Bay Street.

 

[10Seven]

In Toronto, the financial district is most often called Bay Street.

Perhaps the idea would be to offer a GENERIC naming option, and a FLAVOUR name.

Like:

1. Financial District
2. Wall Street
4. Bay Street.

Flavours could be a selection of a handful from various regions - covering Middle East, South America, and Asia.

If the designers don't simply make it generic - in which place people will complain that it sounds boring - they will be lambasted for racism/favouritism/Americanism, or a few other 'isms.

I like the idea of choosing - perhaps it could be dependant on the Civ we chose - thus, a Chinese Civ will have a name from China, etc.

It still has the problem of being limited and open to criticism, but adds interest to the game, and a cheap avenue through which the player can customise their experience.

 

[Tiger_Nation]

oh well "the city" isn't universal. I wasn't sure it was. But it is only 1 square mile because the centre of london is sometimes called "the square mile"

 

[Hannabir]

Yes, Is a gift made from the frenchies. The thing is that in Rome there is another one, even older than the french statue of liberty (the one by the river Seine, in Paris, oh, la la), and the romans (well, people who live in Rome right now) claim that the french copied them. That's second hand information to me, It needs to be double-checked.

Well, the Statue of Liberty is really a statue of the goddess Ishtar, so there are plenty of older ones. It's a big joke on the Americans, who today still have no clue.

 

[Dante Vergil]

On July 4, 1889 the American community in Paris offered the French people
a gift of a bronze replica of the Statue of Liberty, 1/4 scale,
about 35 feet high. It still stands now, on Ile des Cygnes an island in the
Seine River, next to the Pont de Grenelle, a bridge crossing the Seine,
1.5 km downstrean (South) of the Eiffel Tower.

See France has a Statue of Liberty too.

 

[Invisible Rhino]

Well, the Statue of Liberty is really a statue of the goddess Ishtar, so there are plenty of older ones. It's a big joke on the Americans, who today still have no clue.

Nope, the real joke on Americans are all those godawful European movies you send over here.

 

[Urederra]

If you are a interested in historical places or buildings that can be selected as great, or minor wonders (just if you are curious or if you are a modder) check the World Heritage List from the UNESCO. Here is the link.

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/

BTW, Mt. Rushmore is not in the list. The statue of Liberty is. So does the Independence Hall and La Fortaleza in San Juan of Puerto Rico.

BTW(2). The country with more places or buildings in the UNESCO´s World Heritage List is Italy, Spain is the second one. (So you see where the history and culture is )

Hope the list is useful for modders.

 

[Aleph-Null]

Mt. Rushmore does not belong in "fascism" perhaps nationalism but definitely not fascism. I have emailed firaxis regarding this insulting addition to the game and hope that they will reconsider this addition.

if they do not, myself and about 3 dozen others will be refraining from purchasing the game... and probably just go the pirating route if anything.

 

[Urederra]

Mt. Rushmore does not belong in "fascism" perhaps nationalism but definitely not fascism. I have emailed firaxis regarding this insulting addition to the game and hope that they will reconsider this addition.

if they do not, myself and about 3 dozen others will be refraining from purchasing the game... and probably just go the pirating route if anything.

Yep, I agree. Rushmore belongs to nationalism, not fascism. Although I am going to buy the game anyway. If we do the nasty (pirating) it won´t be any CIV V. And I do want the franchise to keep in programming good games.

 

[mitsho]

KenScott relax! The game is not even out yet! You can't complain on something you don't know! Are we sure that Mt. Rushmore comes with Fascism? I don't believe it for sure before I haven't seen a screenshot. And if I've gotten the thread opener right, he just believes[/b] that this is true. I may be wrong though.
It's ok to e-mail your comment to Firaxis, but I got the impression from your post that you were 'insulting' them and 'threatening' not to buy the game. And there's just no reason to do that.

Am I right that you are form the state where Mt. Rushmore is? (or the place). I'm sorry, but I've forgotten it, was it Dakota? Well, nevertheless, good night.

m

 

[Aleph-Null]

KenScott relax! The game is not even out yet! You can't complain on something you don't know! Are we sure that Mt. Rushmore comes with Fascism? I don't believe it for sure before I haven't seen a screenshot. And if I've gotten the thread opener right, he just believes[/b] that this is true. I may be wrong though.
It's ok to e-mail your comment to Firaxis, but I got the impression from your post that you were 'insulting' them and 'threatening' not to buy the game. And there's just no reason to do that.

Am I right that you are form the state where Mt. Rushmore is? (or the place). I'm sorry, but I've forgotten it, was it Dakota? Well, nevertheless, good night.

m

They got the info from here:
http://civfanatics.com/civ4/info/#Mt.Rushmore

Plus, if they are going to start demonizing US patriotism and not promoting it they don't deserve to make a Civ 5. I'd demand a new staff. I have been modding Civ for years and feel I would be more than up to the task.

I live in Texas and my ancestors fought in the revolutionary war beside George Washington and to disgrace a national monument memorializing Washington & Jefferson is a flagrant dishonor to the priniciples with which my forefathers fought for.

 

[mitsho]

As I said, that's civfanatics, nothing against this site, but this isn't the developers... And I haven't seen a screen yet.
And yes of course, Mt. Rushmore hasn't something to do with Fascism, I agree. But it may be that Fascism and Mt. Rushmore just come with the same tech which could really be possible considering the fact that they want to reduce the amount of modern/industrial techs. Would that be that bad? Yes, it would be ahistorical (because Mt. Rushmore would probably come with Nationalism which is 19th century, and not that late), but for gameplay. And I really don't think the developers want to demonize American Patriotism.

And btw. you can't demand a new staff for civ5. This is capitalism. It's a private company who brings this game out, they can do whatever they want which in economic terms means they'll do what the average buyer wants...

m

 

[Aleph-Null]

And btw. you can't demand a new staff for civ5. This is capitalism. It's a private company who brings this game out, they can do whatever they want which in economic terms means they'll do what the average buyer wants...

m

It has nothing to do with the average buyer. The average buyer is going to be getting this game at the convincing of their teenage child and I definitely don't want my younger friends growing up with the false impression that Mt. Rushmore is somehow a fascist development as opposed to a patriotic expression that helped boost morale during a time when there were world wars.

 

[GoodGame]

It's not all nationalist. In some cases the wonders gave key things at key times.

At its origins, Oxford University is one of the oldest schools in Europe after the Dark ages, and the roots for the modern university system. But I get your point, each civ could replace the name with a historically similar version.

Library of Alexandria is the original GL.

Rushmore is more of a cultural wonder, but could easily be renamed "The National Monument", with a generic wonder splash.

May I ask where you have the info from that Mt. Rushmore is gonna be a small wonder and arrives with Fascism?

And on topic: Practically every civ (or better for artwork, etc.) has its own culture, so I find it a bit tragic that everyone has to build Mt. Rushmore or Oxford University. It'd be much more fun if America(n culture group-civs) builds Mt. Rushmore, whereas the African (or Middle Eastern) civs build 'Kilimandscharo'. Or even better, the English build Oxford University, the French the Sorbonne and the Egyptians the 'library of Alexandria'.
Onto the effect, well, historically I do not see anything besides culture and tourism, but gameplay-wise it could represent the development and thus really something against Fascism... We'll see.

mitsho

 

[10Seven]

I live in Texas and my ancestors fought in the revolutionary war beside George Washington and to disgrace a national monument memorializing Washington & Jefferson is a flagrant dishonor to the priniciples with which my forefathers fought for.

Presumably they also fought for other aspects of the constitution which include freedom of expression.

But apparently that's only ok if you're lauding the USA

Any criticism, regardless of reason, is anti-american - thus, evil.

 

[HourlyDaily]

Wow I didn't think there were any super-patriotic Americans on this site. That sort of thing generally makes me uneasy. Firaxis demonising US patriotism, wow...

 

[Hannabir]

A proper wonder to go with fascism might be the Mafia.

 

[Afgnwrlrd]

The Mafia aren't fascist.
And why would you want to build it?