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MTCSG-01: Immac's Muti-Threaded Concurrent Succession Game -01

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Immaculate, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. Immaculate

    Immaculate unerring

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    I knew that would be a controversial decision, but its nice to have different strategies. I thought that the immediate gain (especially the two hammers/turn) off-set the long-term shrine income.
     
  2. LlamaCat

    LlamaCat Emperor

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    I won't be able to play until Saturday. Happy Thanksgiving!
     
  3. Immaculate

    Immaculate unerring

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    Saturday is fine with me unless someone has a very pressing issue or something.

    I'm canadian; our thanksgiving is over. and i live in scotland and they don't have any thanksgiving. but you have a great one.
     
  4. frankcor

    frankcor Emperor

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    I loaded both games to have a look. I liked the thrust (war) of the Remconius/Pholk version but the army of raw recruits that Pholk built has zero chance of taking any hilltop cities which basically describes all of the Mongol cities I can see. Note to Phokhero: Hello?? Next time, build barracks!!

    So that leaves us with only one other choice and I know that Mutineer picked also picked the Mutineer/Immaculate version. (I didn't read his report, just his intro describing his choice.) So all the threads have ended and we're starting from a new convergence point at 600 AD. I liked this save, besides the reasons I can see that Mutineer used, because Immaculate circumnavigated -- that's as good as a World Wonder(maybe Magellen's Voyage from Civ I?) on this map. The downside is, it is almost devoid of military units within our borders. Perhaps that's something I can improve upon. Also, I've set myself up for a head to head comparison with Mutineer and I'm not very hopeful of outdoing him. Oh well, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

    Spoiler Round 5 Turn Report :

    Inherited Turn (600 AD)

    I traded with Qin:


    We needed Horseback Riding for Conquistadors along with Feudalism as a prerequisite for Guilds. Calendar didn't hurt us because we don't have Stonehedge. And the 40 gold gave us an additional turn at 100% research.

    Knowing that Qin would probably shop Machinery to the tech-whore, I decided to eliminate the middle-man:


    Courthouses will be helpful now, if not sooner.

    Turn 1 (620 AD) Toledo constructed a Barracks, started an Archer(1) -- we needed garrison troops.

    IBT:
    Buddhism has spread: Beijing (Chinese Empire)

    Turn 2 (640 AD) Seville trained a worker, started an Archer(5). Cordoba trained a Swordsman, started an Axeman because we could see two Barbarian Archers, one of which had just encroached on our Marble quarry. I sent the Swordsman to kill him--he performed admirably. Toledo trained an Archer, started another(2). I sent the Archer to garrison Madrid. I slowed population growth in Toledo, trading food for a commerce and a hammer; it's reached its happiness cap but will be able to grow again in 3 turns as the whipping memories fade. I traded food and a hammer (pig farm) for commerce (sea tile) at Seville to slow growth there as well.

    IBT: A barb warrior approached our copper mine at Cordoba while another archer approached our wounded Swordsman there.

    Turn 3 (660 AD) Madrid trained a Worker, started an Archer(1). The worker boarded a galley bound for Santiago, our ice city in the south. Barcelona trained a Buddhist Missionary, started another(5). I dispatched the missionary to Toledo.

    I established an open borders agreement with Qin so our galley could do some scouting of his lands.

    Turn 4 (680 AD) Madrid trained an Archer, started a Worker(4). Toledo trained an Archer, started a Crossbowman(5).

    Our Swordsman at Cordoba killed the second Barbarian Archer while our garrison Warrior died trying to dislodge the Barbarian warrior standing on our copper mine. That was a bonehead play at 50% odds; it forced me to whip the Axeman being built there.

    Turn 5 (700 AD) Our missionary was successful in spreading Buddhism to Toledo.

    Turn 6 (720 AD) We finished research on Feudalism and started work on Guilds(9). We were still at 100% research but that was to run out in 3 more turns. I set Seville back to grow to size 8 -- it had an extra happy face by then.

    Our worker arrived at Santiago and started work on a Horse Pasture.

    Turn 7 (740 AD) Madrid trained a worker, started a Barracks. Barcelona trained a Buddhist Missionary, started another(5).

    IBT: Buddhism has spread: Tianjin (Chinese Empire)

    Qin demanded that we stop dealing with Mongolia. We declined to comply. We were at -2 diplomacy with him.

    Turn 8 (760 AD) Toledo trained a Crossbowman, started another one(5). I sent the new recruit southward with a Combat I promotion. The Buddhist Missionary boarded the Galley ferry south to Santiago.

    Turn 9 (780 AD) Cordoba trained a Crossbowman, started a Forge(11).

    IBT: Toynbee wrote a book:


    We'll see if he changes his mind later.

    A Barbarian galley attacked one of our exploring galleys and died for it.

    Turn 10 (800 AD) I called up Genghis and got the following trade offer.


    That's a 3:4 beaker ration in his favor -- not a bad deal so I took it.

    Turn 11 (820 AD)

    Turn 12 (840 AD) Madrid finished a Barracks, started a Work Boat(2).

    A Crossbowman killed a Barbarian Archer camped out on our Marble Quarry. I sent an Axeman/Crossbowman south to investigate the Barbarian City growing in the fog south of Cordoba. Our Buddhist Missionary spread his religion to Santiago. That city was now producing culture at 1/turn.

    Turn 13 (860 AD) Barcelona trained a Buddhist Missionary and started a Courthouse(12). I sent the Missionary to Cordoba. Seville trained a Crossbowman and started a Barracks. Sheesh, I just pulled a Pholkhero. I garrisoned the Crossbowman in place.

    Turn 14 (880 AD) Madrid trained a Work Boat and started a Harbor for the trade and health -- it was getting a little sickly. The Workboat started crabbing in the bay outside Madrid, curing the health issues. Toledo trained a Crossbowman, started a Courthouse(7). I sent the bow man south -- no, check that. We were at +3 cautious with Khan who had been sniffing around with two Galleys. Based on my experience in a now-dead thread, I garrisoned the bow man instead.

    Our expedition heading south came accross a barbarian Archer heading north. Our Axemen dealt it a swift death.

    IBT: Taoism founded in a distant land

    Turn 15 (900 AD) Santiago constructed aa Granary, started a Work Boat. It would be finished in 6 turns, just in time for an impending border pop.

    Aristotle was born in Barcelona. We have two scientists assigned there and he could join them, or build an Academy either in Barcelona or in Madrid. or he could lightbulb Philosphy for us. Anybody up for a Liberalism slingshot? I sent him to Madrid to await a team discussion.

    Our missionary spread Buddhism to Cordoba. Now all our cities were converted. There was a Grea Person due in Madrid in 15 turns. I slowed down food consumption and hired a priest there improving the odds of a Great Prophet (helped by the prophet who joined the city the last time one was born) and reducing the time to birth to 9 turns.

    Turn 16 (920 AD)


    Whoa, that's quite a nice city the Barbarians have constructed for us. But it'll take some help to take. Guilds up in one more turn.

    And here's another, just west of our capital, Madrid.


    It's on a hill but doable with Conquistadors, I think.

    Turn 17 (940 AD) We finished Guilds,


    Madrid constructed a Harbor, started a Conquistador(7)

    Turn 18 (960 AD)

    Turn 19 (980 AD) Our swordsman exploring with a Crossbowman escort killed a Barbarian Archer west of Chinook.

    IBT: our expedition was attacked by an Archer outside of Chinook, earning a Drill I promotion for our Crossbowman.

    Turn 20 (1000 AD) Toledo constructed a Courthouse, started a Conquistador(5).

    That's it. We've got an Axeman and a Swordsman healing down south. They'll be ready to support Conquistadors as they become available soon. I've built some cottages and two plantations (Sugar and Spice) so our cities are still growing towards their current caps of 10 to 12 size, the memory of the whip long forgotten. We are in good position to whip up a good sized Conquistador force, backed by catapults soon. Who's our first fictim? It's your choice.

    I traded Spice for 4 gold/turn from Tokugawa, even though he's annoyed at us. The trade may improve his demeanor. That puts us at +3 gold/turn at 70% research.

    A Great Person is due in Madrid in 4 turns (50/50 chance of a Prophet or Merchant. There's a Scientist there who can wait to start a golden age, discover Philosophy, build an academy or join the city. Mansa has Philosophy already and might be working on Liberalism and won't trade it, so it may be risky to try for it. It hurts my head to go through the options. ;)

    Construction is 1 turn away.


    We would need to go for:
    Philosophy (Great Scientist)
    Theology(6) Mansa will trade it(720 beakers) to us in exchange for Drama(432 beakers) and Guilds (1440 beakers)
    Paper(9) Nobody has it, Mansa can research it. Great Merchant?
    Education(22)
    Liberalism(20)

    Those are substainable research rates providing we build a few courthouses and not a huge army in the meantime.


    Here's The Save for the B-team.
     
  5. Immaculate

    Immaculate unerring

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    How's it going A-team?


    Frankcor
    Remconius
    Llamacat
    Mutineer
    Kanga DU

    It looks like we still need Remconius, Llamacat,and Kanga DU. Llamacat said he wouldn't be able to post a game until Saturday and Kanga DU asked for a skip (so i don't know when he will be back), but how about Remconius... you still with us?

    Lets try to get this done by Saturday (or Sunday if need be), so we can keep this going. Don't sweat it too much though; the idea is to have a laid-back, easy-going game anyway.
     
  6. remconius

    remconius Deity

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    I'll be out tonight, but should be back tomorrow.

    I do have some graphics error with civ. Hope I can get that fixed so I can play before sunday.
     
  7. Kanga_DU

    Kanga_DU Warlord

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    Played and from Immac's save as well. Mostly a troop building event. Report to follow shortly.
     
  8. Kanga_DU

    Kanga_DU Warlord

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    Spoiler :
    After looking at both saves, I liked the progression of Immac's better: it also had a clearer next path as I saw it. Which is building military.

    There's a barb city to the south on the home island and one in the middle of the west island which are saying capture me. The bonus of not building settlers (keeping the captured cities) and building military seemed to kill two birds with the one stone for me. Additionally we are in hereditary rule and not leveraging the happy bonus on city garrison's.

    Mansu's tech lead in a wee bit disturbing, so tech trading to him is out as far as I'm concerned. As it was no good trades opened up during these turns. However by the end we are in the good books with GK, who happens to like Qin. It might pay to freeze out Toggy and Mansu. OB with Qin is available now, so missionary spam and a religion change is not completely without merit. However that's up to the next person, IF someone is foolish enough to pick up this save. :crazyeye:

    Quick look at the tech chart shows we need Feudalism for Guilds and the UU, Conquistadors! However CoL and CS are pressing needs too. I built gold up a few turns, before going 100% for Calendar after all that. :lol: We've got unconnected resources that will help the happy/trade options. Feud next then.

    Mostly sword/crossbows dialed in as next builds, odd theatre or barracks as needed. Longbows as Feudalism comes in. Deal with some southerly barbs, as I get a few units heading to Chinook in the south. Drats, 4 won't cut it, although its archers only, there behind walls.

    Meanwhile GK and Qin have settlers ahoy.



    Our resident tech whore comes with this offer:



    Which is a no.

    This however is of use:



    On the second last turn I finally had the troops to take Chinook:



    We really didn't have any military to start with. I've got a few troops on the west isle, however we'll need cats to make sure with out wasting too many troops. Archers only atm, but walled on a hill. :mad:

    I switched into vassalage after Feudalism, then decided to chase CS before Construction or Guilds. We got a great scientist that built an academy in Madrid. I figured the bureaucracy bonus with academy was the greatest priority.

    Mansu finished up Notre Dame in about 880AD. We've got Buddhism in most cities except for far south and Chinook. Probably a good time to try for a great profit er prophet.

    We've got the start of some military. Crossbow or Longbow in most cities now, some both. Plus some swords/axes/crossbow raiders. A couple of spearmen too, prolly need some more of those.


    We have a save even:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80073/MTCSG-01_AD-1000.Civ4SavedGame
     
  9. remconius

    remconius Deity

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    Have some graphics issues. Let me try to play now.
     
  10. LlamaCat

    LlamaCat Emperor

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    I have to say I am extremely confused which saves are for the last round - these posts are kind of all running into each other. I'm going to grab one that I am pretty sure is available and go with it for that reason only. But I wonder if we can somehow clarify the delineation between rounds from now on somehow? People switching teams is part of why I'm confused I suspect...
     
  11. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    last round finished 600AD
     
  12. LlamaCat

    LlamaCat Emperor

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    Here is my report, I choose Immaculate's save:

    Spoiler :

    640
    I notice Khan has a settler coming around our way on a boat. Some barbarian archers are approaching Cordoba.

    660
    I start building a library in Toledo, which has zero culture right now.

    680
    barb city with some archers is spotted across the water.






    700
    I need to drop science rate down to 70%. Stone quarry outside cordoba is pillaged by barb archer. Toledo is now unhappy. Cordoba is virtually worthless after barbarian pillaging so I send a worker down to do some work. I'm shifting to almost all military production because this game seems to be barely surviving against the barbs coming out of that city to the south.

    740
    Switching to serfdom for at least a few turns to get these cities going. Down to 60% science rate. Missionary spreads religion to Santiago, and there's a worker hooking up resources down there.

    780
    China offers open borders, I accept.

    800
    This barb city is becoming a real pain in the ass - I think destroying it needs to be a priority.





    860
    my first swordsman to reach the barb city is attacked and dies. Money is almost gone, research is going nowhere, no good trading possibilities, etc.

    900
    great scientist born in barcelona, I use him to build an academy in Madrid. I am lost as to what else to do with him - this game feels so hopelessly out of control for me, I suppose because it's emperor level :)


    I'm not really sure why we have this city Santiago so far down, away from the rest of the cities - the maintenance seems to be killing me here. I am also not sure why a workboat is sailing around the world - I think these things are much more valuable working a resource tile.





    1000
    guilds researched, set to civil service. traded drama to Mansa for horseback riding and a little gold.








    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/77162/MTCSG-01_AD-1000-LlamaCat.Civ4SavedGame
     
  13. remconius

    remconius Deity

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    Report:

    Found an old graphics card which I installed and does the job. No more glitches... :)

    I choose pigs save, because he makes moves similar to what I would do. It keeps the game multithreaded. If we start getting further behind I might switch to another thread to pick up from there....

    Spoiler :

    Did a bunch of whipping to improve cities.
    Got a GM which was added to Madrid for food and gold.
    Sold map around and was able to circumvent the globe first. +1 sea movement.

    Techs:
    Monotheism, Currency (trade), Machinery, literature, compass (both trade), paper, calendar, contruction, fuedalism in progress

    Found cordoba near marble.

    War:
    GK declared for no reason like he alwasy does. So I built a bunch of caravels to beat him back.

    Status:






    View attachment 143078
     
  14. Immaculate

    Immaculate unerring

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    Santiago has horses. We need horses for our unique unit. The workboat circumnavigated.

    You had to choose from:

    OR​

    OR​

    OR​

    Spoiler :

    Years 125AD to 600AD.
    I choose to use Mutineer’s save. To be honest, I choose mostly due to city placement and exploration.

    During my turns I want to:
    1) establish off-shore colonies that will get us happiness/health resources for future growth. So we need an exploring land unit that can serve as a garrison (archer/axeman) and a settler.
    2) finish colossus and snag the great library (or set us up to do so)
    3) consider getting compass for harbours (I wish we had the great lighthouse- great lighthouse and harbours are awesome. I think of the great lighthouse as a free organized trait because I use the added commerce to expand and I think of harbours as an extra courthouse because they increase commerce that much more in conjunction with the lighthouse). Without the great lighthouse, harbours are less attractive, but with expansionist, they are more attractive.

    One thing I DON’T like about this save however, is that we have been trading with the Chinese’s and the Japanese’s worst enemy, which means trading with Japan is going to be near impossible for the rest of the game and that trading with Quin will be very difficult. Because the Khan established Confucianism, it will be impossible to return him to our diplomatic fold. Having only one trading partner who is willing to trade with everyone else will hurt us diplomatically by establishing more and more ’you traded with our worst enemy ’ modifiers and preventing the establishment of triangle diplomacy. I WANT Genghis to demand some techs, just to add some diplomatic buffer room.

    after playing: the diplomatic penalty seems to have worn off and the chinese are even willing to trade. maybe we can do triangle diplomacy with the chinese and the malinese... maybe...

    In 125BC:
    I decide not to build the Buddhist shrine. It would net us some nice gold, but in the short term would only net us 3gpt. Settling the priest provides 5gpt and 2 hammers. Future prophets can help with the shrine, but for now 5gpt >3gpt and the two hammers is a LOT of hammers at this stage in the game. That’s two hammers without assigning a citizen. Besides, someone else will settle a priest for a shrine and I want to offer alternative games. The downside is that a shrine helps the religion to spread and we won’t be benefiting from this.
    The colossus is now done in 3 turns instead of four.
    I switch Barcelona (which has whipping overflow) from a workboat to an axeman. I need a land-based scout (see above) and I need it NOW.
    IBT: Our galleys are attacked by barbarian galleys but prevail over the scurvy pirates. Yarrrr!

    I had some difficulties with CIV crashing at this point. I went out for supper, turning off the computer and when I got back, it seemed to be fine. I haven’t experienced this before but it seems to have stopped.

    In 150AD, I trade Mansu our spare gold for his wine, and provide a greater buffer for Mutineer’s whip.

    In 200AD, Seville completes a forge and begins work on a galley (I want to explore the Khan’s lands for a way to circumnavigate). We also complete Drama and I set research to Music as per Mutineer’s plan. Lastly, we get the colossus.

    In 225AD, Barcelona completes an axemen and begins work on the great library. I trade the Mongols our corn for 2gpt. Mostly to establish a diplomatic buffer.

    IBT: Mansu demands drama. Sorry, we aren’t sharing Mansu. You are such a tech-slut you wouldn’t stop trading anyway, so who cares. Also, who knows if he is trying for Music or not.

    Aggghhhh!!!! In 325AD, Mansu researches Music and Homer is born in his capital. Stupid Mansu. I guess he didn't need drama after all.

    removed for post

    In 375AD, two turns too late, we complete music. I set research to machinery, but first run 100% coins for a few turns to get the cash back in place. Machinery is on the way to conquistadors. Madrid also finishes a settler and begins work on a market. I whip the great library in Barcelona. Together with two chops, the great library is completed. I set production to barracks. Its time to grow the army soon.

    In 450AD, I sell the Japanese and the Mongols meditation for some cash. I trade Quin marble for 4gpt.

    In 540AD, Santiago is founded (next to a hut popping a useless map). This nets us horses, crab, and more importantly, furs for the empire’s happiness/health and strategic use. The corn and crabs will ensure growth. With the colossus, this city is not a total waste (yes, i admit it, the collosus is sort of useful).

    removed for post

    In 560AD, Barcelona completes barracks and begins work on a Buddhist missionary. This is the fastest way to get culture to Santiago.

    In 580AD, Madrid completes a marketplace and begins work on a worker.

    600AD. Last turn. Machinery completes. I don’t select any new technologies to research, leaving that decision to the next player. I would go towards guilds and try to trade for feudalism. Theres maybe an opportunity here:

    removed for post

    We also circumnavigate.

    removed for post

    Here are the current trades in effect. It may be worth re-negotiating some of them, but I leave that to the next player.

    removed for post

    Our score climbed nicely despite missing Homer. As you can see Mansu is really starting to pull away. It maybe worth building our forbidden palace in his cities, maybe the one with the great lighthouse :lol: .

    removed for post

    I am sorry to say that we have fallen to second in GNP, but I believe that will be compensated soon enough.

    removed for post

    Here is a strategic overview:

    removed for post

    Some thoughts:
    Establishing Santiago will allow us to get horses into play. Together with our iron and guilds, we could get conquistors fairly quickly. I have built some barracks. Together with the feudalism tech (should be able to get this from the Chinese depending on trading opportunities), we can get two-promotion conquistadors out the gate. We should think about increasing the empire through warfare if we can grab these units. Either way, we need an army, if only for the barbarian cities which are starting to pop up. You’ll note that we are 5th in soldiers.
    In my opinion, the colossus and metal casting (from the oracle) together are not as great an asset as the great lighthouse. If we had it, I would have broken away from Drama at the beginning of the save to get compass and put up some harbours. This is just my opinion and I don’t want people to think I am griping ;) .
    Anyway, we got the great library which is good.
    And I let Mutineer’s whip unhappiness wear off a bit (in a few cities- Barcelona really felt the lash!), a common feature to players who pick up his saves in all games I think.

    Here is the save.




    Hmmm... Does anyone have any suggestions to make things more simple? I've been posting rosters. I thought this would help but maybe it does not...?
    I'm not very experienced at these SGs, so if anyone has a suggestion, i am open to hearing it.

    Also, if you want to play a different save, i have no objection to you playing one of the other ones.

    Currently we are in the process of playing/collecting saves for the 600AD-1000AD round from the A-TEAM


    Frankcor
    Remconius
    Llamacat
    Mutineer
    Kanga DU

    All have played except Remconius who is slugging it out with a graphics issue.
    Once he plays, team B will play. I am not sure what year we play until. Does anyone with more SG experience know how long the next round goes?


    As much as i feel honored that so many people choose my save (especially after the first round), I hope Remconius plays someone else's save to keep the idea of a multi-threaded game alive.
     
  15. Immaculate

    Immaculate unerring

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    I guess i cross-posted with Rem.

    So, we now have all saves for that round.

    Its now the B-teams turn:


    Pholk Pigswill Ozbenno Immaculate​

    These players are playing from 1000AD and can choose from the following saves:

    Immaculate->Mutineer (post #120)
    Immaculate->Frankcor (post #124)
    Immaculate->Kanga DU (post #128)
    Immaculate->LlamaCat (post #132)
    Pigswill:goodjob: ->Remconius (post #133)
    (edit- oops- fixed post #)
     
  16. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Just little comment folk.
    You should pay more attention to trade opportunities.
    Every one who was playing from Immaculate save had option to trade for callendar+construction+Feodalism on turn 0, but no one did exept me, stright away putting you a long way behind.

    Use button what make this deal work, so i had to trow some money in first deal, it was good anyway.
     
  17. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I think I'll carry on from Rem. Slighty disappointed that we've made no progress to GS but different priorities at different stages of the game I guess. Doing ok tech-wise. Need to expand on our island I reckon and use caravels to prevent interference from GK.
     
  18. frankcor

    frankcor Emperor

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    Immaculate, you asked how you could make this easier, then came up with a terrific way on your next post. It could be even better if you copied the post links in your updates -- heh, there's always a whiner, eh? :lol: :lol:

    Immaculate->Mutineer #120
    Immaculate->Frankcor #124
    Immaculate->Kanga DU #128
    Immaculate->LlamaCat #132
    Pigswill:goodjob: ->Remconius #133

    It's probably easier to paste in links than it was to quote the posts. Your mileage may vary.

    Switching teams may make it more confusing, I agree. Was there a compelling reason to do it?
     
  19. Kanga_DU

    Kanga_DU Warlord

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    Good point Mutineer. I'd meant to make a note of not doing something like that in my report. IIRC, I think I could of shopped machinery around and possibly picked up 3 other techs. As it was I put more value on not losing the monopoly on the tech until it became worthless or learnt by other civs. Definitely an area for improvement in my game.
     
  20. frankcor

    frankcor Emperor

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    Waitaminute, waitaminute. :)

    On turn zero, I got Calendar, Horseback Riding and 40 gold from Qin and Code of Laws and 120 gold from Mansa. So there.:p :p Then later, I got Compass from Khan.

    And as long as we're comparing, I think I did a good job of building military and getting control of the barbarians and in spreading our religion.

    One thing is certain -- we agree on taking a shot at going for Liberalism and the free technology. I definitely think it's doable from either of our stopping points. Using my save, I would cash in the Great Scientist sleeping in Madrid for Philosophy and then go for Theology (maybe trade Mansa for it?), Paper, Education, then Liberalism.
     

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