Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Immaculate, Nov 3, 2006.
I'm plsying Pholk's save now. Will report soon.
I played Pholk's save because his seemed best set up for an early war in my mind. In addition, I'm tempted by the notion of going for 3 religions and a cultural victory even though everything I've read says it's insanity to go for 3 religions on Emperor level -- so much for conventional wisdom.
Spoiler Round 3 Turn Report :
Turn 1 (600 BC) Here's the layout of our Empire in 600 BC.
Madrid was building a settler that would be ready in 8 turns. Barcelona, our fishing village up north was unhappy, building a library without any garrison. I decided to switch to an Archer and maybe we could whip away some of that unhappiness in a few turns. And Seville on the east coast was 1 turn away from a granary and 3 turns away from population 2.
Turn 2 (575 BC) I whipped the Archer in Barcelona for 1 population and started work on a hilltop pig pasture there. Seville built its granary and two workers started chopping a Barracks there.
Turn 3 (550 BC) Barcelona finished: Archer, went back to work on Library
Seville was on the verge of growing unhappy at size 2 so I stopped working a farm in favor of a mine to slow growth down. Growth would be in 5 turns instead of 1.
. . .
Turn 5 (500 BC)
Barcelona grew: 3
Buddhism has spread: Ning-hsia (Mongolian Empire)
Turn 6 (475 BC)
Tech learned: Sailing --> Polytheism <-- Pholk wanted to use a Great Prophet to lightbulb Theology for the third religion so we'll need to back fill Polytheism, then Monotheism first.
We started digging an iron mine between Seville and Madrid.
We spotted a Mongolian galley with an archer and settler sailing northward on our east coast. He's got a long way to go to find a suitable spot, I hope.
Confucianism has spread: Seville
Turn 7 (450 BC)
Seville grew: 2
Seville's borders expand
. . .
Turn 9 (400 BC)
Madrid finishes Settler, begins Galley Did anyone notice there's a hut way down in the tundra? Maybe we can send an axeman down to pop it.
Barcelona grew: 4
IBT: Genghis Khan demands that we switch to Buddism. He's cruisin' for a bruisin'.
Turn 10 (375 BC)
Tech learned: Polytheism
Seville grew: 3
IBT: This should probably come as no surprise:
Turn 11 (350 BC)
Research begun: Masonry <-- on the way to Monotheism.
Cheaptown, otherwise known as Cordoba, is founded and starts work on a Obelisk.
Madrid grew: 5
Turn 12 (325 BC)
Seville finished Barracks, began Axeman
Turn 13 (300 BC)
Madrid grew: 6
Seville grew: 4
Turn 14 (275 BC)
Barcelona finished Library, began Confucian Temple <-- for happiness
Tech learned: Masonry
Barcelona grew: 5
Turn 15 (250 BC)
Research begun: Monotheism Christians require it.
Madrid grew: 7
Turn 16 (225 BC)
Madrid began Barracks
Madrid grew: 5 and grows unyhappy
IBT: Khan is not nearly so pleasant this time:
Buddy, you don't know treachery. You're in for a world of hurt. His stack of doom consists of 2 empty galleys:
Turn 17 (200 BC)
Madrid finished Barracks and goes back to work on Galley.
Seville finishd Axeman began Axeman I sent the Axeman to the west coast to catch a Galley ride south to the village.
Turn 18 (175 BC)
Madrid grew: 6 <-- unhappy again
Barcelona grew: 6 <-- unhappy again
Seville grew: 5
Turn 19 (150 BC)
Tech learned: Monotheism
Madrid began Swordsman, finished Swordsman <-- and went back to work on Galley. I sent the swordsman east to start an invasion force.
Turn 20 (125 BC)
Research begun: Metal Casting I think forges would enhance our cities.
Barcelona finished Confucian Temple <-- began Axeman
Cordoba grew: 2
Turn 21 (100 BC)
Madrid finished Galley, began Buddhist Temple <-- unhappiness is starting to be unmanageable
Seville finished Axeman, began Swordsman
Turn 22 (75 BC)
Madrid began Buddhist Missionary
Madrid finished Buddhist Temple <-- began Buddhist Missionary
Turn 23 (50 BC)
Madrid finished Buddhist Missionary, began Galley <-- I sent the missionary north to Barcelona
Barcelona grew: 7 <-- unhappy again
Turn 24 (25 BC)
Turn 25 (0 AD)
Barcelona finished Axeman, began Galley The Axeman heads south to join the invasion force.
Seville finished Swordsman, began Galley
Buddhism has spread: Barcelona <-- our missionary succeeded
Barcelona grew: 5
Barcelona finished Galley
Turn 26 (25 AD)
Barcelona began Galley
Moses (Great Prophet) born in Madrid-->Tech learned: Theology
I sent the Christian missionary to Madrid.
Seville grew: 6
Turn 27 (50 AD)
Christianity has spread: Madrid
Barcelona grew: 6
Turn 28 (75 AD)
Cordoba finished Obelisk, began Archer
Seville began The Sistine Chapel <-- just kidding
Seville began Library
Ratz, I lost the last two turns but I don't recall much happening. Oh except that our first Axeman rode the galley south to the barbarian village. He discovered an Archer guarding it in a forest.
NOTE TO SELF: Next time send 2 axemen.
We've got the start of a good invasion force building in Seville. They're waiting for galleys. I'm not certain what to do with the one Mongolian galley on our west coast. He dropped off his payload of an archer and settler on the island west of ours and then pillaged our fishing nets at Madrid. He's now just wandering aimlessly. I started a Galley from Barcelona to the south to join up with the one that ferried our axeman south but changed orders and sent him back north. He'll probably be needed to help ferry our invaders to Mongolia.
Caution: There's a barbarian Archer next to our fogbusting warrior south of Cordoba. You can either retreat and let the Axeman I sent to Cordoba handle him, or just gut it out.
We're religious as hell and at war. Here's the save at 125 AD. I apologize for the delay.
If I undestand correctly we finished this round.
We have 4 different saves.
Interesting, some one allready get into war!
I am surprised no one else exept me explore around.
Exploration really payes of.
Looks like there are actually four versions: Llamacat, Mutineer, remconius and frankcor. Looking through I think that Mutineer's is the strongest all round (not surprising as he's the most experienced player), Llamacat's is probably the least strong (probably least experienced player), frankcor/pholk's cultural version is the most innovative but I'm going to play remconius' version(basically coz he played from mine and is going for a high commerce approach)
i am going to be OoP from Tomorrow until Sunday. I'll probably ahve time to play, but don't look for my report until Sun.
Played 20 rounds from remconius' save taking me up to 600ad. How many turns is this set meant to be?
20 I think is correct.
Played from Mutineer's save. Defiantely the most advanced, through his exploration and trading. Although, our military situation is worrying to say the least, especially with a known back-stabber like Genghis hovering
Firstly, built a buddhist shrine in Madrid. Next step missionaries.
The plan is to try and get Great Library in Barcelona, which also means hooking up the marble.
Mansu offers a gold for win deal, taken.
Qin cancels open borders, worry!
Drama comes in and I take Calender up next, get those happy faces on line for more growth.
Colossus built in Madrid, Lighthouse next.
Genghis offers corn for clams, anything to stop you declaring mate!
Calendar in Machinery next. can't get any decent trades out of the Ai either. I trade away Meditation for cash but that's it. Mansu will offer me CoL (which takes 3 turns to research) for Drama and Calender, um no!
I fianlly pop over to that warrior guarding the hut. The villagers provide you with a map. Normally this would be the worst possible outcome but the map extends into the ocean to where my work boat had just discovered there was no route around the world, giving us an unexpected circumnavigation bonus .
Machinery in and replaced by Compass.
We are up a lot of techs on Genghis. In order to facilitate an early war, this trade is done and research switched to Civil Service.
And this beauty is built (thought I had a screenie) Great Library in Barcelona..
Just one extra city built.
Every city has at least 2 growth capacity but health is getting tight. Mansu appears to be the leader, Genghis the trailer. I think we could take him out with catapults, crossbows and maces. Equally with Great Library and Colossus, we could launch away.
We should (in either case) get more missionaries out there.
We have 5 turns left on Civil Service.
And some practice for our catapults once they come on line.
I played from remconius' save:
My objectives this round were exploration and consolidation. Didn't build any new cities at all.
Renamed Goldfish to Santander.
Madrid built galley, worker, spear, spear, library while growing to size 11 and working cottages to make use of bureaucracy.
Santander built lighthouse, library, spear, running two scientists for GS (about 40 turns to 300 GPP).
Barcelona built granary, galley, worker, barracks.
Seville built granary, lighthouse, archer, worker (1 turn to go).
Techwise got CS in 425, started machinery (4 turns to go).
9 turns to next GP in Madrid 50/50 Prophet/Merchant.
Foreign affairs: met Qin and Tok. Traded CS to Qin for alphabet,maths, polytheism and masonry. GK converted to Buddhism but still neutral, not tech-trading. Tok ain't trading. Tok and Qin are both Confucian.
In 250 GK demanded corn for free, agreed. I cancelled deal in 600 and got rice for corn instead.
Map of our 'empire':
View of our development:
Thoughts for continuation. Carry on exploring to seek out the mythical fifth civilisation. Could it be Mansa?
Maces available in four turns. Time to start exploring the island and cranking up for blunt instrument expansion.
Currency or construction next? Depends on trade opportunities of course.
Overall, after this dull round of consolidation its time to expand.
Sorry people, I'm a skip this round.
I'm back from my vacation in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. It was great. I saw all my old friends, my fiancee, and her mom. I visited with my auntie and ate VERY well.
But now that i am back, i am ready for some 'un-true/fake' multi-threaded concurrent succession game (just ribbin' ya Mutineeer ).
Anyway, it doesn't look like there was too much team switching. Is that something that people decided they didn't want to do or is that something that perhaps we should do now?
I am very eager to get home and have a look at the saves.
Wow- that is very rare. How fortuitous
And on this map, it's huge! <--(in New Joisey it's pronounced "youge" and means "a Good Thing(TM)").
Currently, the teams stand at:
Immaculate Frankcor Remconius Llamacat Mutineer
Pholk Pigswill Ozbenno Kanga DU
Kanga DU is not available to play this round, so lets put someone into the second group. Unless anyone has any objections, I would like to try to take his spot (its been awhile and i want to get my ass back on this saddle) and Kanga DU can jump back in group one for the next turn (if he wants to). This lets us trade up the teams a bit as was originally suggested. So, the teams are now:
Frankcor Remconius Llamacat Mutineer Kanga DU
Pholk Pigswill Ozbenno Immaculate
good, this will give me time to play tonight. Been stuck in meetings all day so i couldn't post earlier, but suffice it to say, i was pretty dang busy this weekend. mea culpa.
Boy, that was pathetic ~ i chose Remmy's and made a hash of it. I didn't wnat Frank's b/c i didn't want my save; how else could this SG be of any use? I didn't take Mutineers b/c, despite the far advancement, i was a bit worried about Genghis since he already delcared in Frank's save, PLUS i wanted to be the aggressor. Also, Llama's cities seemed spread a bit far, and Cordoba was lacking a food resource.
So, first off ~ I whipped like my name was Mutineer ~ whenever i could, i a bldg, even for just one pop. Granaries all around and lighthouses. I built mostly swords ~ however, my biggest mistake and that which, to me, puts my save at the bottom of the barrel is that I forgot a frickin' barracks!!
I declared on Genghis on my lsat turn, and landed 5 swords and an axe outside Karakorum which has 4 defenders. We've also got another sword/axe ready to be shipped over as well.
There are no screenies b/c, really, i think my turns suck. If anyone wants some, then i'll post 'em.
Worst. Save. Ever.
on 2nd thought, too, i wish i did chose Mutineer's ~ i could've just as easily built the same army in that time and probably have a promoted army ready to attack
I played, but i was unable to post.
I have work all day, then language class (arabic) after work. I have a friend over from Canada also, so i don't know exactly when i will be able to post, but i hope it will not be too late.
I went with Mutineer's save and got the great library also. I failed to nab Homer from Music (i got beat to it by two turns by that d*ck Mansu who is turning into a score rocket). I did build a new city and develop the ones we already had. I also grabbed machinery after Music. Stupid Mansu. I hate him so much. He is the only other one with alphabet and he is trading like crazy. He has a tech lead, a GNP lead, the great lighthouse (arghh!), and trading with him gives you diplomatic penalties with the chinese and japanese. I built lots of barracks and put us in a great position to trade for feudalism and start work on guilds for a conquistador war!
I too, like Pholk, whipped some cities like my name was Mutineer (like Barcelona which felt the lash every 4-5 turns or so), whereas others i let grow and get some happiness.
I also pulled off some nice resource trades (without providing metals to the Khan).
Here is my write-up.
Years 125AD to 600AD.
I choose to use Mutineers save. To be honest, I choose mostly due to city placement and exploration.
During my turns I want to:
1) establish off-shore colonies that will get us happiness/health resources for future growth. So we need an exploring land unit that can serve as a garrison (archer/axeman) and a settler.
2) finish colossus and snag the great library (or set us up to do so)
3) consider getting compass for harbours (I wish we had the great lighthouse- great lighthouse and harbours are awesome. I think of the great lighthouse as a free organized trait because I use the added commerce to expand and I think of harbours as an extra courthouse because they increase commerce that much more in conjunction with the lighthouse). Without the great lighthouse, harbours are less attractive, but with expansionist, they are more attractive.
One thing I DONT like about this save however, is that we have been trading with the Chineses and the Japaneses worst enemy, which means trading with Japan is going to be near impossible for the rest of the game and that trading with Quin will be very difficult. Because the Khan established Confucianism, it will be impossible to return him to our diplomatic fold. Having only one trading partner who is willing to trade with everyone else will hurt us diplomatically by establishing more and more you traded with our worst enemy modifiers and preventing the establishment of triangle diplomacy. I WANT Genghis to demand some techs, just to add some diplomatic buffer room.
after playing: the diplomatic penalty seems to have worn off and the chinese are even willing to trade. maybe we can do triangle diplomacy with the chinese and the malinese... maybe...
I decide not to build the Buddhist shrine. It would net us some nice gold, but in the short term would only net us 3gpt. Settling the priest provides 5gpt and 2 hammers. Future prophets can help with the shrine, but for now 5gpt >3gpt and the two hammers is a LOT of hammers at this stage in the game. Thats two hammers without assigning a citizen. Besides, someone else will settle a priest for a shrine and I want to offer alternative games. The downside is that a shrine helps the religion to spread and we wont be benefiting from this.
The colossus is now done in 3 turns instead of four.
I switch Barcelona (which has whipping overflow) from a workboat to an axeman. I need a land-based scout (see above) and I need it NOW.
IBT: Our galleys are attacked by barbarian galleys but prevail over the scurvy pirates. Yarrrr!
I had some difficulties with CIV crashing at this point. I went out for supper, turning off the computer and when I got back, it seemed to be fine. I havent experienced this before but it seems to have stopped.
In 150AD, I trade Mansu our spare gold for his wine, and provide a greater buffer for Mutineers whip.
In 200AD, Seville completes a forge and begins work on a galley (I want to explore the Khans lands for a way to circumnavigate). We also complete Drama and I set research to Music as per Mutineers plan. Lastly, we get the colossus.
In 225AD, Barcelona completes an axemen and begins work on the great library. I trade the Mongols our corn for 2gpt. Mostly to establish a diplomatic buffer.
IBT: Mansu demands drama. Sorry, we arent sharing Mansu. You are such a tech-slut you wouldnt stop trading anyway, so who cares. Also, who knows if he is trying for Music or not.
Aggghhhh!!!! In 325AD, Mansu researches Music and Homer is born in his capital. Stupid Mansu. I guess he didn't need drama after all.
In 375AD, two turns too late, we complete music. I set research to machinery, but first run 100% coins for a few turns to get the cash back in place. Machinery is on the way to conquistadors. Madrid also finishes a settler and begins work on a market. I whip the great library in Barcelona. Together with two chops, the great library is completed. I set production to barracks. Its time to grow the army soon.
In 450AD, I sell the Japanese and the Mongols meditation for some cash. I trade Quin marble for 4gpt.
In 540AD, Santiago is founded (next to a hut popping a useless map). This nets us horses, crab, and more importantly, furs for the empires happiness/health and strategic use. The corn and crabs will ensure growth. With the colossus, this city is not a total waste (yes, i admit it, the collosus is sort of useful).
In 560AD, Barcelona completes barracks and begins work on a Buddhist missionary. This is the fastest way to get culture to Santiago.
In 580AD, Madrid completes a marketplace and begins work on a worker.
600AD. Last turn. Machinery completes. I dont select any new technologies to research, leaving that decision to the next player. I would go towards guilds and try to trade for feudalism. Theres maybe an opportunity here:
We also circumnavigate.
Here are the current trades in effect. It may be worth re-negotiating some of them, but I leave that to the next player.
Our score climbed nicely despite missing Homer. As you can see Mansu is really starting to pull away. It maybe worth building our forbidden palace in his cities, maybe the one with the great lighthouse .
I am sorry to say that we have fallen to second in GNP, but I believe that will be compensated soon enough.
Here is a strategic overview:
Establishing Santiago will allow us to get horses into play. Together with our iron and guilds, we could get conquistors fairly quickly. I have built some barracks. Together with the feudalism tech (should be able to get this from the Chinese depending on trading opportunities), we can get two-promotion conquistadors out the gate. We should think about increasing the empire through warfare if we can grab these units. Either way, we need an army, if only for the barbarian cities which are starting to pop up. Youll note that we are 5th in soldiers.
In my opinion, the colossus and metal casting (from the oracle) together are not as great an asset as the great lighthouse. If we had it, I would have broken away from Drama at the beginning of the save to get compass and put up some harbours. This is just my opinion and I dont want people to think I am griping .
Anyway, we got the great library which is good.
And I let Mutineers whip unhappiness wear off a bit (in a few cities- Barcelona really felt the lash!), a common feature to players who pick up his saves in all games I think.
Here is the save.
So, i guess its the a-team's turn now.
Just to show that I am not allwasy rigth.
I was sure we will get music if we go this way
Hmm... Now I will have a dificult job choising save to play, which I will do after I come back from work.
After loading bouth saves I decided to choise Immaculate Save.
1) I like his colony, exploration, infrastructure build more.
2) I do not believe that missing GA damage his position.
3) I decided to try a plan I do not useally use.
4) He building 2 needed workers.
So, Turn 0.
Traded Feodalism + gold from Masta
Traded calendar+Construction from Chinise
Reshaffle resource trades for more happiness.
Look on cities and decided I need to grow our cities to use coming
Most needed infrastructure allready whipped, capital soon will have a lots of improved ties to work, so we need to grow it now.
What we need for now to build infrustructure faster and build some units to take over barbarian city.
So, I revolted to Serfdom+Vassalage.
Reseach set for guilds.
Khan start to move galley with settler in our culture. I do not want him to settle anywhere and I allready decided to isolate and slow his development.
So, I cancel Open borders with him.
When researching for guild I traded Col+Hoursebak riding.
Guild-civil service. Now cheaper with 2 prerequisites.
Civil service - Banking.
Use GS for Philosofy for pacifism.
I am trying to make diring attempt to research Liberalism and take Economy from it. It migth fall, it is a bit risky, but I think we will get Liberalism anyway.
Revolted to Burocracy/Pacifism/Castle system
Hired scientist in 2 cities, producing settler/workers in other.
Banking-paper(If posible to trade Cristianity not for civil service or bankingor philosofy, to make paper a bit cheaper) - education (Burn scientist)-libaralism take economic.
I am starving 2 cities, it migth be a good idea to switch off castle system in a few turns for a little whipping.
Khan is keeps bakward, he is still far away from Feodalism.
Civics we are running:
Personally I would had prefure to have shrine, we have 3 non buddist cities we will need to spead buddism into and we need Academy in capital.
I would consider to switch to mercantenilism after banking. I am not 100% sure it is a good idea, but with Pacifism one more specialists provide 6 points.
I feel there sci+GP points will more then cover lost of commerce and will slow down Masta+ Chinese more then it slow down as.
Turns finished 1000AD
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