Multiplayer Let's Plays - BuilderFTW

the CTON LP is great! i'm realizing that MP is like a turn-based version of starcraft (with deeper economic and tactical decision-making), while deity-level single-player is about finding/adapting a strategy to juggle your econ/military/tech balance to overcome the AI bonuses. i think this explains the difference in speed of play.

do MP games with competent players ever get into the modern era? i've never seen or played a deity conquest game that ended earlier than turn 250ish because it takes at least that long to climb out of the hole you start in.

i especially enjoy the way MP rewards the use of sight ranges, zones of control, and real-world military tactics (flanking, fortification, misdirection, etc) to gain the advantage. your optics detour for embarkation and the simultaneous, guerilla iron pillages were sweet.

keep up the great work!
 
Some games let players to build economy and military so it's possible to see industrial wars starting around turn 120-130 if some guys are really concentrated on science. These turtle players love to build ranged units to counter rushers until they get a real tech advantage(read artillery :)).

Personnally i like to play both modes. Sometimes i act like a pure barbarian and sometimes i try to build sufficient army to defend myself and focusing on economy and science for a better edge later. It depends of map most of the time.

Duel and cton are focused on balance ressources so it's really tempting to iron rush since you automatically get some in your land. Some maps don't always offer good defense spots too.
 
jvidmaar said:
the CTON LP is great! i'm realizing that MP is like a turn-based version of starcraft (with deeper economic and tactical decision-making), while deity-level single-player is about finding/adapting a strategy to juggle your econ/military/tech balance to overcome the AI bonuses. i think this explains the difference in speed of play.

do MP games with competent players ever get into the modern era? i've never seen or played a deity conquest game that ended earlier than turn 250ish because it takes at least that long to climb out of the hole you start in.

i especially enjoy the way MP rewards the use of sight ranges, zones of control, and real-world military tactics (flanking, fortification, misdirection, etc) to gain the advantage. your optics detour for embarkation and the simultaneous, guerilla iron pillages were sweet.

keep up the great work!
Click to expand...
I have played a game all the way to nukes before so long games are certainly possible (although not much longer :nuke: ;))

I uploaded a replay of one such game(3v3) to nukes. It was a very militaristic game the whole way through but no one was able to make significant gains against the other team. The other players quit before I took the american capital (dont remmember what turn) and I played on to a space victory to get the replay.
 

Attachments

heh...i can only imagine the absolute chaos of human players using stealths and nukes on other human players given how devastating they are against the AI. is it possible to change the starting era for MP games the way you can in SP? if so, it might be worth an LP, huh?
 
In fact yes it is possible to do later era starts. I have done only a few later era starts (a few industrial mostly) one problem is that not many players are good at it (including myself). Also I dont like the unit balance of later eras, ie nukes are WAY powerful. Stealth bombers kill everything etc. I like the older eras a little more because I feel like defense is a little more viable, with tanks and nukes and bombers I have a hard time defending myself. I have started looking into later eras before you even posted this and it will probably be a while before I start uploading later era starts to you tube:(. It is a great idea though and I think the gameplay in competitive modern era could be amazing :goodjob:.
BuilderFTW
 
greek + aztec was a killer LP. the hit and run cc stuff was hysterical. france had a decided military advantage early - they probably could have taken your cap if you'd delayed the ccs any longer.

do top players ever agree to random AIs, or do early UUs confer such a decided advantage that it could decide the game before it's played? is it the same 4 or 5 civs all the time?

btw, how are the civ players rankings calculated? is it just win/loss percentage, or is it like chess where rating changes are based on the skill of the people you beat/lose to?
 
Some fun videos to watch here - but they kind of underline why CiV multiplayer isn't really up to scratch where the single player is (debatable - but my opinion).

For a game like HL Counter Strike, I'm willing to accept that a player with lesser latency and higher reflexes can headshot me just a half-a-blink before I can target them. But a game like Civilization? Not so much. Should you be allowed to snipe a unit before it can instaheal by virtue of only paying slightly closer attention and possibly having a faster computer, allowing you to act before the opponent gets to exercise any of his defensive strategies? If the MP was a bit more turn-based, this could not occur - you could not lose a promotion just because you missed the click by half a second. That is the kind of thing I expect Firaxis to patch to make multiplayer a bit more balanced.
 
Yes I agree, no one really likes the fast moves. However, personally I enjoy mp combat more than sp combat, your opponent is so much smarter than the ai so that you cannot build a couple of archers and sit back and kill all of their units. I believe fast moves are a cost you pay for more competitive combat (worth it imo).

But my favorite part of multiplayer is the build up, meaning what you build, where you place your cities. You have to do it well or else your opponent will overtake you.

Anyway, mp is a different game from single player and I believe that is ok. I would like for there to be some solution to fast moves, but it does not seem like there will be any on the horizon. I would recommend you try out some multiplayer games, just to see how you feel playing them (dont go for public ffa especially with more than 6 ppl, they will either last forever or have everyone quit). If you want an experience with less emphasis on fastmoves and more on playing check out the No Quitters group on steam. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/NO_QUITTERS
 
the cton game was incredible. i really thought you had him. maybe you should have been moving into position before india was fully dead, so as soon as the indian capital went you could have disembarked.

for the 2v2 versus england, with the benefit of hindsight, is there anything you would have done differently to either take them out before longbows or fend off the longbows until you got artillery? is that even possible?

keep up the vids!
 
jvidmaar said:
the cton game was incredible. i really thought you had him. maybe you should have been moving into position before india was fully dead, so as soon as the indian capital went you could have disembarked.

for the 2v2 versus england, with the benefit of hindsight, is there anything you would have done differently to either take them out before longbows or fend off the longbows until you got artillery? is that even possible?

keep up the vids!
Click to expand...

the CTON is tough, I wanted to be using rifles when I attacked and the moment I had enough rifles and the embarkation tech I went at him. In hind sight I should have researched astronomy(for quicker embarkation)more quickly. I should have made an effort to try and get the notre dame(maybe save my great person for it), it is a very large bonus. Overall, tommynt is a better player than I am so it would have been difficult for me to beat him.

With the 2v2 against england, I should have not quitted so quickly. I told Hardcorps to attack agressively and he did and lost most of his units. A good counter to longbows is the Lancer, the lancer is great on defense if you build lots of roads(which is easy with the pyramids) because you can attack and pull back before they can get to you. I should have saved my great scientist which I used for steel and hid in the hills until we could get the lancer.

Thank you for the feedback, I have one more up right now and more coming down the pipes. :D:D
BuilderFTW
 
BuilderFTW said:
A good counter to longbows is the Lancer, the lancer is great on defense if you build lots of roads(which is easy with the pyramids) because you can attack and pull back before they can get to you.
Click to expand...

...which we see in the new china v japan lp. the idea of building lancers never occurs to a competent single player civer. or forts for that matter. but the double move makes them ridiculously effective in MP. near the end there, i kept saying to myself "i hope they don't sneak around to his cap..." with all the forts you built elsewhere, you could have used some around the cap, huh?

a lot of fun to watch though. keep posting.
 
jvidmaar said:
...which we see in the new china v japan lp. the idea of building lancers never occurs to a competent single player civer. or forts for that matter. but the double move makes them ridiculously effective in MP. near the end there, i kept saying to myself "i hope they don't sneak around to his cap..." with all the forts you built elsewhere, you could have used some around the cap, huh?

a lot of fun to watch though. keep posting.
Click to expand...

You don't even necessarily need double moves with lancers. If your enemy is on a road you can hit the enemy and come back out of harms way all in a turn. Of course with double moves they get even stronger, but it is risky because if your opponent can attack at the end of one turn or the start of the next, your dead.
 
Hey just wanted to say "love the videos. Keep up the good work":goodjob:
I especially enjoy the commentary that points out the reasoning behind gameplay moves. I dont play mp, but your vids are encouraging me to try it out.
 
Can you post your games against (the famous)MrGameTheory and (the legendary civ4 player)Moineau? I was awared of these games only when i surfed on civplayers.com a couple of days ago but i dunno if it's me but they don't seem to appear on your youtube page(it's surely me :))
 
I finally saw them on your page...:blush:
 
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