Munich or München?

[warmonger]

It easy if you are just refering to a city on some distant continent but when you live there it is something different. I'm a native English speaker living in Switzerland where every city has at least 3 names, one in each of German, French and Italian. The English word for the city is usually, but not always, the French word.

Like Geneva is Genevé in French, Gempf in German, and I have no idea of the Italian. When a local is speaking in English they usually keep the name of the city from their mother tongue. So a person from Basel, would call their city Basel (pronounced something like Bah-zel) even though the English word is Basle, which is stolen from the French word Ba^le (little hat should be over the a) which is pronouced Bahl in both French and English. This is really confusing for a dumb -english speaker so I just pronounce it as Bahzel

 

[Adso de Fimnu]

It easy if you are just refering to a city on some distant continent but when you live there it is something different. I'm a native English speaker living in Switzerland where every city has at least 3 names, one in each of German, French and Italian. The English word for the city is usually, but not always, the French word.

Like Geneva is Genevé in French, Gempf in German, and I have no idea of the Italian. When a local is speaking in English they usually keep the name of the city from their mother tongue. So a person from Basel, would call their city Basel (pronounced something like Bah-zel) even though the English word is Basle, which is stolen from the French word Ba^le (little hat should be over the a) which is pronouced Bahl in both French and English. This is really confusing for a dumb -english speaker so I just pronounce it as Bahzel

What about the Romansch?

 

[cgannon64]

If its got those crazy double-dots, it must be Americanized, because those are utterly meaningless to me.

Or if its got letters like this:

ð

I'm surprised my monitor didn't melt trying to display that.

 

[BassDude726]

Is that a sperm?

 

[cgannon64]

I think its one of those damaged ones with two tails I learned about.

 

[The Last Conformist]

But other people do. Just think of certain Eastern European city names. Bratislava/Pressburg, for example. There are people who will be offended if you use the German name. Not to think of "Tschechei"...

That one's weird. In German class in Sweden, I was thought that die Tschechei wasn't appreciated by the Czechs, and that one should say Tschechien instead. Then I go to Germany, meet a bunch of Czechs, and they all call their native country die Tschechei.

 

[Grisu]

I usually pronounce words the german way. I only use alternative pronouncings if there is danger of misunderstanding: e.g. I call the Swiss city Freiburg by it's french name Fribourg, so people know that I'm not talking about the German city.

@warmonger: I didn't even now that english speakers pronounce Basel/Basle the french way, I always thought they say something like Base-el

 

[Hitro]

That one's weird. In German class in Sweden, I was thought that die Tschechei wasn't appreciated by the Czechs, and that one should say Tschechien instead. Then I go to Germany, meet a bunch of Czechs, and they all call their native country die Tschechei.

That's why I used the smiley. Political correctness is a strange thing, after all...

 

[toh6wy]

I had never heard of "München" before, but had most definitely heard of Munich. So, I prefer Americanization of places, I guess.

 

[WS78]

Tomatoe right?

 

[ainwood]

Sometimes you really need to know the 'local' name, or people simply don't know what you're trying to say. Not so bad in tourist-orientated towns, but we did find some places where people were confused by our anglocised version of the name (firenze/florence is an example).

 

[privatehudson]

I despair at my Parents attempts to pronounce anything French when abroad, so they tend to leave it to me

However if I was in a country where I wasn't sure of pronounciation, I would just leave it. I can imagine Poland would be a nightmare if I tried based on one Polish Priest I know, his name is spelt Ostaszewski (I think, might be mixing up the spelling a little) but pronounced (by him anyway) Ostachefski That's one language I think I'll give a miss

 

[Adso de Fimnu]

If its got those crazy double-dots, it must be Americanized, because those are utterly meaningless to me.

Or if its got letters like this:

ð

I'm surprised my monitor didn't melt trying to display that.

Those two crazy double-dots are called an umlaut. They can be Anglicized by adding an e after the 'u' (or 'o' or 'a').
Oh, and that character was actually found in english at one time. It's called eth, and it makes the sound found in the 't' and 'h' of that. Now you know!

 

[Loaf Warden]

Every language contains sounds not available in other languages, and it is a tradition far pre-dating the English language that people will develop names for foreign places that are more comfortable in their mouths than the original versions. Even today, English is not the only language that does it. Every language does it.

The word 'München' contains two sounds not available in English. It would be unreasonable to insist that people who grew up speaking a language that doesn't contain those sounds learn how to make them just so they can pronounce the name of a city the way the people who live there happen to say it. I myself am capable of making both sounds, and when I have occasion to say the city's name in a German sentence, I call it 'München' and pronounce it correctly. But the word is awkward and not easily recognizable in an English sentence. When I'm speaking English, I call the city 'Munich', because that's what we call it in English. When I'm speaking a language, I prefer to only use the set of sounds that exist in that language. To insist on bringing in new sounds the language doesn't even have would be asinine.

Similarly, when I'm speaking Japanese, I say 'Igirisu' instead of 'England', because that's the form the name takes in Japanese. 'England' is an impossible noise to make in that language, so why should the Japanese be expected to strain themselves trying to say it at a moment when they are speaking their own language?

Such didacticism is irritating and unwelcome. Whichever language I'm speaking at the time, I will use the sounds and names established in that language, just as people from every country in the world already do. I refuse to be pressured into doing otherwise simply because my first language happens to be English.

 

[Rammstein]

Whatever makes the message work, really. You could call Munich "Wubba-Lubba" if you wish, as long as the people intended to understand, understand.

But seriously - translating names isn't just something that you can move to change. You can't expect the world to use the original language - how would you then write Beijing... or Tokyo...? Doesn't work.

I wouldn't dream of making you all spell Swedish city names like this:

Malmö
Örebro
Göteborg
Jönköping
Linköping
Öresund

and so on...