Pacioli
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2009
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- 418
My 100k HOF target
- Thread starter RFHolloway
- Start date
del62
Deity
I am not sure why, but currently the three fastest finish dates are on standard map sizes for cultural 100k, perhaps there is something about the number of cities to map size and point at which feudalsim comes into play that causes this.
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
It may be something to do with the domination limit.
On tiny you can only get around 100 cities, (as I found out when my game ended with an accidental domination win despite frantic abandoning of cities) this happened around turn 155 so I was anticipating about another 60 turns of just sitting there not growing. Anyone know the relative sizes of the domination limit by map size (60% land pangea, but the relative sizes of the maps would be sufficient).
On huge you will be limited by expansion only, standard may well be the place where you can expand rapidly and hit the domination limit and the culture limit at around the same time.
Question - what do you do with an early SGL (masonry or second tech) - you have only 4 cities
a) keep it until out of despotism - rush to republic
b) rush the pyramid's now - early despotic GA will be made up for by increased SGL chances, early graneries
c) get techs for ToA - SGL that, then start building pyramids by hand, hoping for a SGL before it complete, if you get one turn the prebuild into a forbidden palace.
d) something else
On tiny you can only get around 100 cities, (as I found out when my game ended with an accidental domination win despite frantic abandoning of cities) this happened around turn 155 so I was anticipating about another 60 turns of just sitting there not growing. Anyone know the relative sizes of the domination limit by map size (60% land pangea, but the relative sizes of the maps would be sufficient).
On huge you will be limited by expansion only, standard may well be the place where you can expand rapidly and hit the domination limit and the culture limit at around the same time.
Question - what do you do with an early SGL (masonry or second tech) - you have only 4 cities
a) keep it until out of despotism - rush to republic
b) rush the pyramid's now - early despotic GA will be made up for by increased SGL chances, early graneries
c) get techs for ToA - SGL that, then start building pyramids by hand, hoping for a SGL before it complete, if you get one turn the prebuild into a forbidden palace.
d) something else
Spoiler :
If playing on higher levels, SGL the Pyramids hands down. If playing as Sumeria or Babylon, there isn't any early GA, so SGL the Pyramids. Even with the Celts I'd still say to SGL the Pyramids, since more growth earlier gets you workers, settlers, and cities faster. The GA only increases production and commerce. Commerce plays a lesser role in the 100k, so missing it doesn't matter too much. Production matters less than food also in a 100k. So, going with more total food, that is the Pyramids earlier, seems like the better choice. Nikodemus's game may also come as interesting to look at here.
del62
Deity
Go with a, on my warlord 640AD finish I had my golden age with 2 cities, Nikodemus had the same with his 610AD on regent. The granaries and golden age will get your settlers and workers out quicker and get you to republic quicker. I started a pre build for TOA early but left Polytheism for a while, a second SGL might have changed my mind, but an earleier TOA wouldnt have made a massive difference, perhaps a few turns.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
Domination limits of 60% Pangaea maps: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62318&d=1090238136
I think you mean "b" del, but that's ok.
del62
Deity
oops youre right i meant b
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
Cheers Bartleby. That explains it.
Sensible broad brush assumptions as follows
first 80 turns - 15 cities - 0 culture
after that 1.8 cities growth per turn, average of 5 culture per turn per city (so a growth of 9 culture per turn per turn)
Max cities on tiny map is approx 100
that gives small as 165, standard as 250, large as 400, huge as 600.
The dom limit will be hit around 127 for tiny, 163 for small and 211 for standard. Then its just build culture to the end. For the larger 2 maps you will be growing until you hit the culture limit.
This gives standard times of tiny 221, small 215, standard 220, large 242, huge 260, which is about the first place times for the lower levels.
This means that the target CPT is (turn-72)*9 until the domination limit is hit.
Sensible broad brush assumptions as follows
first 80 turns - 15 cities - 0 culture
after that 1.8 cities growth per turn, average of 5 culture per turn per city (so a growth of 9 culture per turn per turn)
Max cities on tiny map is approx 100
that gives small as 165, standard as 250, large as 400, huge as 600.
The dom limit will be hit around 127 for tiny, 163 for small and 211 for standard. Then its just build culture to the end. For the larger 2 maps you will be growing until you hit the culture limit.
This gives standard times of tiny 221, small 215, standard 220, large 242, huge 260, which is about the first place times for the lower levels.
This means that the target CPT is (turn-72)*9 until the domination limit is hit.
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
Tiny regent is going well Turn 148 - monitoring the domination limit, (have given away 4 cities so far - 2 island cities I should never have built and 2 on the edge of my territory to produce some counter pressure) Civ assist predicts win in 980AD (does that take into acount culture doubling?). My current issue is around cash flow(-40 with 2k in the bank), as I have rushed coluseums as well.
How much do you get for selling buildings 1 quarter of the build cost - same as wealth?
How much do you get for selling buildings 1 quarter of the build cost - same as wealth?
del62
Deity
Have you set up tax men in culturally completed towns?
It's been a while since I've used Civ assist, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't take culture doubling into account. It only counts the current cultural gain from a certain building.
As Del62 said tax men in completed towns will help you out quite a bit. Also if your cities have only 1 unhappy citizen due to whipping remember to make him a tax man not an entertainer. Any size 1 town will produce a worker every ten turns even with a tax man - assuming you're agricultural.
I think it's fair to assume that most HoF 100k games will have a faster initial growth than 15 cities by 1000 BC. If you take a generally faster expansion rate into account the dom limit will be hit earlier on standard, and - if I understand your calculations correct - it means that the standard time of a standard map will be lower, which might fit the best times of standard maps better.
But I definately agree with the overall idea that the best 100k time will happen on a map where the timing between hitting the dom limit and culture limit come the closest.
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
yes probably - i was looking at somewhere between 15 to 20, but it doesn't make much difference to the shape - more critical is the settlement rate.
Game is progressing well - cash flow is stablised (worker cities moved to wealth) Domination limit being skirted, cultural flip cities rejected. Time will be under 200 turns
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
submitted at 820 AD (turn 197) will wait for the next gauntlet before starting the next one.
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
Judging from some other 100k I thought my weakness may be the time it is taking me to get to the domination limit, so I have put in a couple of domination games as well - nothing great. What it did highlight is that I lack aggression, I need to conquer some territory to get the right stuff as soon as possible.
del62
Deity
Workers are really important in this, I htink you said you stopped at twenty, I am not sure if aggression is the problem though, getting as many cities as possible two irrigated grass will really help, also use other food sources where you can , flood plains etc.
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
But are you building workers at the same time as settlers?
I am finding that I get to about 20, then a major push on settlers (and cash rushing) up to the point that I have everything filled in switch to feudalism, then whip the culture buildings, then as they complete switch back to workers (and tax farms)
I just don't want to build workers while I am building settlers.
I am finding that I get to about 20, then a major push on settlers (and cash rushing) up to the point that I have everything filled in switch to feudalism, then whip the culture buildings, then as they complete switch back to workers (and tax farms)
I just don't want to build workers while I am building settlers.
del62
Deity
Definately build workers alongside settlers.
