My First Attempt at Monarch Difficulty and I'm Really Struggling! Please Help!

[CGQ]

I've been lurking and reading on here the last few weeks after getting into this game last two months and I need your help. I've won a couple times on noble and then a few times on prince and finally I decided to take a crack at monarch but I'm struggling a bit.

In this particular game, I chose Joao II of Portugal. The start is okay, and I'm surrounded by the lovely Isabella of Spain to the east, and the charming Ragnar of the Vikings along with the fat Korean dude and this cranky Egypt guy. The viking, Korea and Egypt dudes seem to get along about as well as ketchup on pancakes. I mean they all be asking me to join their wars, like Egypt dude's all like "destroy the evil vikings" then I'm like naww and then the Viking dude asks me to destroy Egypt right after lol.

I've played this game a couple times already and reloaded to the start to practice and learn. Most my games I usually have no trouble Sword rushing the religious nut Isabella and wiping her off. She had no iron or copper but she only had horse so I just used the spearmen for the chariots and the swordsmen to kill her archers. I raze most of her cities except her capital that has 3 found sources and I make that into a GP farm and another of her cities into a commerce farm since it's by the river.

My last attempt I took her capital and then declared peace. After a while, I built up this nice stack to finish her off:
https://imgur.com/woQMI6p

Thing is, unlike prince, I'm falling behind on tech badly (1700s and I'm still researching astronomy LOL) because I have to put the slider to like 0-20% most of the time. How am I even supposed to catch up??? Even after trading and researching what they don't have. I can't rush the viking dude since he finds iron and is too far early on and by time I destroyed Isabella he has Macemen. By time I had Macemen he had knights and musketmen! Usually I'm the one ahead but not on this Monarch game!

Either way, you guys here know more. What would you do? What's the first thing I should do? That's something I always struggle with is the first 50 turns, like what is the best thing to research first?

When is it worth founding a religion? How do I not get beat to founding Hinduism and Buddhism? I never usually go for this but when is it ever okay to go for a religion. (obviously I only try when I have Mysticism since Joao doesn't have it hence why I don't go for it here.)

In this game, I go for bronze working to chop the settler, then immediately go for iron working and then I settle a town next to the iron source south that has two sea-food resources.

Here's the start:
https://i.imgur.com/eZ28kNX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uztSMNI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/88sG2wk.jpg

 

[lymond]

First, regarding Imgur pics, which I use exclusively myself as well, use the field called BBCode and copy that text. You can paste it directly into your post and voila! Although please use a spoiler tag for each pic.

I would point you to Shadow game that Old Dude just completed. The thread is right above this one as I type, but I will post the link regardless.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/shadow-game-first-time-at-monarch.648011/

I recommend following that one if you wish. You can grab the start save and play along. A lot of detail went into that game and OD did a fine job with it.

Also, feel free to run your own shadow game. Best way to learn.

It's hard to give advice on later stages of the game as the early game is where most mistakes are made.

I will say that going for IW is very very very bad.

BW may have been ok with all that forest, but food is generally prioritized first.

At least you are building a worker first ..that is very very good

3 cities at 650bc..not good

 

[CGQ]

First, regarding Imgur pics, which I use exclusively myself as well, use the field called BBCode and copy that text. You can paste it directly into your post and voila! Although please use a spoiler tag for each pic.

I would point you to Shadow game that Old Dude just completed. The thread is right above this one as I type, but I will post the link regardless.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/shadow-game-first-time-at-monarch.648011/

I recommend following that one if you wish. You can grab the start save and play along. A lot of detail went into that game and OD did a fine job with it.

Also, feel free to run your own shadow game. Best way to learn.

It's hard to give advice on later stages of the game as the early game is where most mistakes are made.

I will say that going for IW is very very very bad.

BW may have been ok with all that forest, but food is generally prioritized first.

At least you are building a worker first ..that is very very good

3 cities at 650bc..not good

Thank you for the reply, I'll definitely have a look at it! Why is iron working bad? I built the three cities to make swordsmen and then used them to rush isabella. The game before that I did 4 cities and I had about 8 since I took a couple of her cities.

 

[Zavior]

If you have the starting save could you upload it please?

 

[CGQ]

If you have the starting save could you upload it please?

Yup

 

[lymond]

Thank you for the reply, I'll definitely have a look at it! Why is iron working bad? I built the three cities to make swordsmen and then used them to rush isabella. The game before that I did 4 cities and I had about 8 since I took a couple of her cities.

Well, it really boils down to totally rethinking how you play the game. New players often just develop bad habits at first until they find CFC - I certainly did 10 years ago. You appear to be quite new to what is a very complex game. I really do not know what you do know and don't know in terms of optimal gameplay. I can say "IW is bad" but to explain that is in the context of a lot of other basic gameplay concepts.

So really what I encourage is learning basic concepts first before barreling ahead with ideas of beelining expensive early techs like IW and charging neighbors bull on. I could write a dissertation here (which I'm often prone to do ) about all this stuff, but it is repeating a lot of stuff already available to you in other threads.

Again, read the monarch game I posted. My (she goes by another name here that beings with F) just posted a brand new beginner's tips thread which is stickied at the top of the forum. Work in progress, but check it out first.

Post a shadow game from the start getting advice in short turnsets.

edit: hey..at least you found the bug mod...that is a good start

 

[Gumbolt]

I think worker first too. Logic is early BW. You already had fishing so a workboat could be chopped.

The question is do you grab the fish/horse site first? Or settle on coast near the 2 sea resources. That is the mistake you made early on. Those 2 sea resources provide you with 4 commerce. Fish is the stronger food resource.

You also have a city settled next to no resources. Makes no sense to me. I would of traded for IW. Albeit on Monarch that can take a while.

Overall start screams Horse Archer rush. You had the forest to chop out an army here and take down Spanish.

I think you have got a bit confused on what to do with your capital. It's not a great city. However....One image shows you building FP in the Spanish capital. I would of moved your capital there. Guessing you did not find the horse or it was already settled.

 

[lymond]

I think AG>BW coulda worked here with no idle worker turns. The cows can be farmed for nice tile early.

yep AG>BW worked perfectly....farm cows first. last turn before BW completes wheat is done and can step on forest.

stole worker from Izzy

popped HBR from a hut which is just as silly as huts/events are silly

 

[Zavior]

Took a quick run at the map

Spoiler :

Settled on the plains hill west of the cow for a faster start.

Agri -> AH -> BW -> wheel -> writing -> hunting -> archery -> hbr -> math -> currency

I had read the thread so I had knowledge of the map already and HA's were suggested so I went along that route.
Only to find out the nearest horses were on some tundra I neglected to scout. Settled the fourth city there, chopped lib and hurried worker to pasture the horses. Got 2 events that destroyed the pasture so that delayed the HA's for ~8 turns. Declared with 8 HA's and took Madrid.

Isabella had at most 4 archers in a city, no metal, she had no chance. Took IW, mysticism etc cheap techs for a temporary peace after getting alpha. Isabella has 2 useless jungle cities, essentially eliminated from the game. Might just ignore her and go after Ragnar or Wang next.

At some point I noticed I couldn't build cottages so I was pretty surprised at the lack of granaries everywhere and found out I skipped pottery(???).
Teched pottery after currency so economy is a bit wonky, but there are a few nice coastal tiles to work anyway so it isn't that bad. Ran 2 scientists in 4 cities to push trough to currency, recovery should now be easy.

10 cities at 120AD, could just tech to cuirs to mop up everyone, or continue with HA's and kill ragnar & wang. Also have iron, so could go straight to knights and roll over everyone. Pretty much every option to end the game is still open. A lot forests still left around Barcelona and Madrid so maybe chop more HA's or tech to knights and chop them. Sorely lacking workers, cities don't have granaries because I somehow skipped pottery. Capital could be higher pop but ran scientists too long, though it wouldn't have improvements to work anyway.


State of the empire at 120AD:
https://imgur.com/a/StpOYBu

 

[CGQ]

So I played the map again and here I am now:

Spoiler :

I did what Zavior suggested and followed the HA rush approach to take Isabella's cities out. I'm in a similar spot although I'm 2 turns behind (175 BC vs 125 BC). I think because I researched pottery right before math and currency and also built two extra HA's but I'm not sure.
https://i.imgur.com/JXmcR9u.jpg

Interestingly Ragnar declared war on Isabella just a few turns before I intended to attack her. Once I did I went in and she had some weakened units from Ragnar.

https://i.imgur.com/wPH27kg.jpg

I also bulbed alphabet with Great Scientist:

https://i.imgur.com/5tyFFYk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nHjz8Zu.jpg

The peace declaration with Isabella, who was now down to just one city:
https://i.imgur.com/ddnGSlY.jpg

How am I doing so far guys?

 

[Gumbolt]

Quick HA run through.

Spoiler quick run through. :

Key points. I grabbed the horse/fish site. Horse in the inner ring.
Grabbed the double crabs site. I chopped heavily till I had 3rd city.
I ran coastal tiles where ever possible to speed up science. Balnce between getting workboats completed.
I prechopped about 8-9 forest,
I tech Ag/BW/AH/HBR/TW/Hunting/Archery.

Ignore my worker moves I stopped moving them near the end.

I arrived at Madrid with 1 defender. I think the most units I faced was 3 archers.

I trade for writing with Korea. Then traded HBR for alphabet. I can now grab techs for peace or wipe Spanish out.

I have 9 HA left so could attack Ragnar but I am done here.

I would not be wasting a GS on alphabet when you can trade for it. This could be grabbing philosophy or starting a golden age later on. If I had a bureau capital I would build an academy with a GS.

 

[floydmcw]

My attempt:

Spoiler :

Settled in place, worker, Ag (Hunting from a hut) -> BW -> AH.

As Lymond noted you can farm cow after wheat. My first two cities were same as Gumboldt's (double crab and horse/fish) but I also founded a riverfront city in the north for copper and grabbed the gold/fish spot to the northwest.

This slowed my econ down a bit, but I eventually got HBR and declared on Izzy just as she mined iron. Her cities were not well defended.

When Barcelona was her capital it went into revolt! I tried to figure out how this could have happened then saw the slave revolt event and I laughed like a hyena.

Now at T112 (75 BC) have 12 cities, and Stonehenge + Buddhist holy building.

The tech and wonder pace in this game is super slow. Pyramids and Great Lighthouse still available.