My government (Norway) refuses to let me use my VISA- and Mastercard freely!

[madviking]

That's not how the world works, sadly. Wish it were.

Does not compute; explain.

What you are saying is that if I were confronted by a merchant on a city street, offering a ten dollar ticket and a one percent chance of winning a million dollars, I will always take it no matter how unrealistic the offer is? I call shenanigans.

No, it's to protect those who are vulnerable.

What does this mean?

You're still saying that dumb people should be allowed to be so and with no penalty... "That's not how the world works, sadly." Dumb people sink and smart people float...

 

[Lillefix]

"That's not how the world works, sadly." Dumb people sink and smart people float...

That's what socialists and to a lesser degree socialdemocrats, try to remedy.

 

[madviking]

That's what socialists and to a lesser degree socialdemocrats, try to remedy.

So they think a dumb person has the same likelihood to succeed as a smart person?

 

[Lillefix]

So they think a dumb person has the same likelihood to succeed as a smart person?

No they think a dumb person should have the same likelihood to succeed as a smart person.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Does not compute; explain.

What you are saying is that if I were confronted by a merchant on a city street, offering a ten dollar ticket and a one percent chance of winning a million dollars, I will always take it no matter how unrealistic the offer is? I call shenanigans.


You're still saying that dumb people should be allowed to be so and with no penalty... "That's not how the world works, sadly." Dumb people sink and smart people float...

No, not saying any of that. Most simply, gambling is legalised theft against some of the most exploitable sections of society. If you don't understand why it is exploitative, think of why it is normally regarded as wrong for a 40 year old man to have consensual sex with a post-pubescent 10 year old girl.

 

[madviking]

No, not saying any of that. Most simply, gambling is legalised theft against some of the most exploitable sections of society. If you don't understand why it is exploitative, think of why it is normally regarded as wrong for a 40 year old man to have consensual sex with a post-pubescent 10 year old girl.

Just because it is frowned upon should not mean it is illegal. It shouldn't be illegal for me to drive a Hummer all day in front of an environmental group. Likewise, it shouldn't be illegal me illegal to offer someone a chance to win money.

It is no different than if I ran a cereal company, and in there's a rather large prize (say...a trip to Cancun) in some number of boxes of cereal, worth X dollars. According to you, people would run to the stores and get their hands on as many boxes of cereal, disregarding their own income, just wanting to get that prize. And granted that there are no supermarket runs occurring right now, I haven't seen such a thing. That is an example of a company making money. Making money should not be illegal.

Additionally, you're suggesting that the only people who gamble are poor people. This is just false.

 

[Lillefix]

It is no different than if I ran a cereal company, and in there's a rather large prize (say...a trip to Cancun) in some number of boxes of cereal, worth X dollars. According to you, people would run to the stores and get their hands on as many boxes of cereal, disregarding their own income, just wanting to get that prize.

That's also illegal in Norway btw. One chips producer tried it recently, but they were stopped. And, yes the sale increased rather sharply when they put money in the bags.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Just because it is frowned upon should not mean it is illegal. It shouldn't be illegal for me to drive a Hummer all day in front of an environmental group. Likewise, it shouldn't be illegal me illegal to offer someone a chance to win money.

It is no different than if I ran a cereal company, and in there's a rather large prize (say...a trip to Cancun) in some number of boxes of cereal, worth X dollars. According to you, people would run to the stores and get their hands on as many boxes of cereal, disregarding their own income, just wanting to get that prize. And granted that there are no supermarket runs occurring right now, I haven't seen such a thing. That is an example of a company making money. Making money should not be illegal.

Additionally, you're suggesting that the only people who gamble are poor people. This is just false.

Really not saying any of this.

To reiterate in other words and in simple terms, legalized gambling facilitates exploitation of the world's poorest people and the increase of their misery.

It is no different than if I ran a cereal company, and in there's a rather large prize (say...a trip to Cancun) in some number of boxes of cereal, worth X dollars.

At least with cereal, they get food, though I didn't mention any example like this.

 

[madviking]

No they think a dumb person should have the same likelihood to succeed as a smart person.

That's all fine and dandy to a certain point, which seems to be very ill-defined...

That's also illegal in Norway btw. One chips producer tried it recently, but they were stopped. And, yes the sale increased rather sharply when they put money in the bags.

Jeez... You see those in the US every other day...

Really not saying any of this.

To reiterate in other words and in simple terms, legalized gambling facilitates exploitation of the world's poorest people and the increase of their misery.

So...? You're making it sound a lot more of an issue than it really is. "Exploitation" is going on all around the globe, in all forms, and not much is going to happen. Also, happiness is not a right.

 

[Ulyaoth]

Also, happiness is not a right.

Yep. Only the pursuit is, thus, banning gambling is an infringement of people's right to the pursuit of happiness.

 

[madviking]

Yep. Only the pursuit is, thus, banning gambling is an infringement of people's right to the pursuit of happiness.

Especially since most gambling is recreational and for entertainment purposes.

 

[Pangur Bán]

So...? You're making it sound a lot more of an issue than it really is. "Exploitation" is going on all around the globe, in all forms, and not much is going to happen. Also, happiness is not a right.

No, actually, I've not really indicated how bad an issue it really is. If you think about it purely in terms of the "right" of the middle class American to go to Vegas and lose a little recreational money to some casino owners, you don't understand how it works for the groups I'm talking about.

Also, happiness is not a right.

Yep. Only the pursuit is, thus, banning gambling is an infringement of people's right to the pursuit of happiness.

If you say so ... would you level the same assertion up against the right of the 40 year old man to "pursue happiness" with the consenting 10 year-old post-pubescent girl?

 

[civ_king]

No they think a dumb person should have the same likelihood to succeed as a smart person.

I thought it was to prevent poor people from screwing themselves over

@calgacus hey if he bought her then...

 

[Godwynn]

In Norway, all gambling is illegal except for Norsk Tipping (the State Lottery) and other betting companies owned by it.

Gambling is bad for you, so we won't allow you to do it... unless we're the ones you are gambling with!

 

[Bill3000]

No they think a dumb person should have the same likelihood to succeed as a smart person.

That's a bit silly. I mean, yes, people of the same natural talent and ambition ought to have the same likelihood to succeed regardless of their background, but differing level of natural talents? No. They shouldn't. Someone who doesn't have the intelligence to be a good scientist or administrator shouldn't have the same likelihood of success in those jobs over someone who has the requisite talent.

 

[Karalysia]

Gambaling is an illness and a serious social ill, your government is doing the right thing.

 

[EnglishEdward]

That's not how the world works, sadly. Wish it were.

The way the world works is that for most people self preseervation says 'fit in'.

I.e. do what one's contemporaries do, do not act in a way atypical of one's economic or social group because if one does, one may be designated as an outsider and thus picked on by a bully and attacked and denied all help.

So if drinking/gambling/smoking is established behaviour for one's peers, there is enormous social pressure for one to do likewise. This starts in childhood and is established as a teenager and can be enormously difficult to break away from.

I am 54 years old. I drive to work as do most of my colleagues. I only
have 4 miles to go and in the long run, it would be much healthier for me and
better for the environment for me to cycle.

The problem is that if I was to ride on the pavement (where pavement is empty
and road dangerous) the police would prosecute me, and if I only ride on the road, my contemporaries would likely cripple or kill me by running me over in the short term.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Norwegians shouldn't be spending money having fun unless the government is getting 50% of it in tax. Wonder how long it will be before these sorts of countries start closing their borders?

 

[sirdanilot]

These specific measures the Norwegian government takes are too extreme and not well thought out. But in principle, heavily discouraging or even banning gambling is not such a bad idea.

In Holland, casinos are also under government monopoly, and there is a state lottery too though it has no monopoly. So that's not all that weird.

 

[luiz]

Meaningless. It's not the "fault" (whatever that's supposed to mean) of people that they were born into poverty, and are easily seduced by chimerical fantasies into parting with their money.

And yes, it is abhorrent that we are still allowing 16 year olds to take up the habit of smoking. We have no excuse.

I think that's a very condescending approach to the situation. Every day I talk to and work with people who are very poor (extremely poor for first world standards) and have virtually no formal education; people who can barely read and write. And yet they know very well that gambling is bad, that one should not spend more than one makes and that money is better kept at a savings acount in a bank.

Poor and uneducated is not the same as "imbecile". The root of the worst tyrannies is trying to save people from themselves. You do not know what is best for the poor, accept that fact.