My ideas for Fall Further Modmodmodmodmod

I like this idea.

It does kind of conflict with the face that several barbarian civs have a "Shaman" adept UU but I'm sure that could be revised.

I'd advise making shamans a str2 unit, that can ONLY learn spells from your palace mana. Even if you get other mana sources. And make them upgradeable into adepts.

Then give the amurites a free shaman to start with.

Just out of curiosity, why limit it to palace mana? In general, they'll only be useful for palace mana and world features. Beyond that, they'll be replaced (obsoleted by) adepts anyhow.

More ideas:

Mage University. Allows training of mages. Requires Mage Guild.

Mage Conclave. National wonder. Requires Mage University. Allows training of arch mages.

The idea of upgrading adepts into mages sounds fun, but I find it requires too much planning (having to build the adepts long before they're needed) and the only other time this mechanic seems to show up is for immortal units.
 
Fair enough, but I have flipped hundred of cities, so I'm not sure how I was doing it then.
Apparently, playing on Settler allows you to do the impossible. At least I never flipped a capital or anything. Wait, no, I think I did that too.

Either way, my cities have grown almost always faster than the AI, allowing me to flip cities without the need for warfare...

I didn't think it was impossible...because it happened.
 
Fair enough, but I have flipped hundred of cities, so I'm not sure how I was doing it then.
Apparently, playing on Settler allows you to do the impossible. At least I never flipped a capital or anything. Wait, no, I think I did that too.

Either way, my cities have grown almost always faster than the AI, allowing me to flip cities without the need for warfare...

I didn't think it was impossible...because it happened.

Perhaps it should be rephrased to "extraordinarily difficult against an AI who is trying".

Not intending to downplay your enjoyment of the game, but there are a lot of generally impossible things that become possible on Settler diff, just as there are some reasonable tactics that won't work at all on Deity.

All that said, I used to culture flip cities all the time in Civ3 and Civ4. In FF, most nations will never flip a city. There just aren't enough ways to increase Culture. Sure, if you are totally outpacing someone, and you go OO and Masquerade, and/or maybe start as the Balseraphs.....
 
Argh, the python is screaming at me. When I try to open up the city details, I get the error message saying cycity does not contain function calculateTradeProfitTimes100. Yet I added it into cycity.cpp and cycity.h in the dll. I'm not seeing anywhere else required to add it to expose this new function to the python. This is part of the UI code to notify the player of fractional trade route counting.
 
CyCityInterface is what python talks to. Then that file talks to CvCity by using CyCity as a go-between.

I appreciate it. I swear, none of my find-in-files search functions seem to work. It pointed me at cycity and cvcity, but not cycityinterface!

I'm having a similar problem trying to make Spring and Vitalize take time to cast. I can see the c++ code that checks if a unit is held (busy casting), but I'm not seeing where it starts (like for the resurrection spell, curiously named "ressurection").

The other problem I'm still trying to wrestle with is re-adding the great generals. The game crashes trying to load the XML files! If the file is incorrect according to the schema, the game lets me know. If it is correct, it crashes. I'll test copying over the names/images bit from another great person to see if that's required as well.

Now, there's 2 ways I can manage great generals: Half of all experience of the unit is given to the great general when he reappears in the capital. This is the simple method. Or, half of all experience earned while the unit is attached is stored towards the great general and the great general spawns with that stored number.
 
Casting delay is started in CvUnit::cast(, if I remember the function name right. Look for changeImmobileTimer or somesuch command call.

Great Generals as a new mechanic, or as a re-introduction of the "from combat XP" method? I placed a block on the combat XP method since it actually still runs in FfH, causing a lot of extra random checks and loops while the game looks for a valid unit to spawn. If as a new mechanic, I'd say start with a warrior and slowly transform his XML into the GG, see where/when it breaks. I would suspect your issue is in setting up the LeaderPromotion and LeaderXP type of stuff so that he can be attached by native Civ methods instead of spells.
 
Thanks. I'll look there to change thing. Perhaps some effort should be taken to make spells more modular so they can all be done via separate python functions (including casting time).

I'm having second thoughts about great generals. I tried to include it via vanilla Civ mechanics (from combat XP, removing that block from the DLL), but something is wrong with how the game loads the great general XML unit I created. When I get home I'll try copying the name/image information in case that bit is required for a person of type great person. But the real reason I'm second guessing is that the game doesn't seem too well designed for immortal units, at least mid-game, and heroes wouldn't get this luxury (well, they do have this luxury if one has a life archmage)
 
Other things that are bugging me at this time include ICS friendly mechanics. Namely, the low maintenance for number of cities ( unless the Jotnar have some special mechanic other than their free -10% in all cities), the elder council and market, the academy, and guilds. Possibly even all of the +culture buildings, which with the holistic culture model could be changed to all be percantage based.

In Vanilla Civ4, no buildings add a flat bonus except possibly one-time buildings. Guilds do have that effect, but as they arrive late-game they don't have too much influence on city placement.

Possibly ways to fix this: Make the early buildings +25% each. The market will be fairly underpowered early on due to higher science slider, but the slider always bugged me anyhow. I might even go the SMAC route and force the sliders to +50% each, with penalties for exceeding 50%. Make the guild executives cost more hammers (120?) or higher spread cost, or both. The difference is hammers requires one city, while gold cost spreads the cost out over the empire.

I'm thinking this thread could also do with a name edit. The current working title for my mod is, "Broken Loose".
 
Although it's possible something else happened... Loki's spells are busted, entertain does nothing at all and the other isn't even available to cast. And they were working fine before I loaded the mod... Followed the instructions. Anyone else having this problem or is my computer being stupid again?

And I can't explore lairs apparently.
 
So far the ideas for reworking the Dural into the ideas I have in mind:

Each city must erect the base building. It's a tall obelisk with a labyrinth of rooms at the base. Here the mages indoctrinate new members into society. The obelisk itself radiates it's power out to the rest of the city. While the building design is complex, it is identical in every city it is built. This building requires a connection to the capital to be built.

Hammer cost is 120 hammers.

Individual projects:
Defense tactics. By using telepathic signals defenders can be coordinated to be where they are needed most. This provides a defense bonus in all cities. Effectively replaces the Pallisade, except for the first strike.
200 hammers cost.

Knowledge coalesced. What people would normally write down into books the Dural focus into an orb that allows one to live the experience as if through the eyes of another. The most important of these experiences are selected and made a part of the package each person recieves when coming of age. +5% research bonus across all cities. Repeatable. 100 hammer cost (+25 per instance after the first). Replaces elder council.

Craftsmanship. With a focus on quality and artistic expression young Dural merchants through their shared knoweldge and experience can command a higher price for their goods. +5% wealth all cities. Repeatable. Replaces market. 100 hammer cost (+25 per instance after the first).

Through streamlining division of labor, communal use of tools, and passing on crafting techniques, manufacturing can be done faster and more efficiently. +5% production 200 hammer cost (+50 per instance after the first). Replaces artisan workshop.

Trade. By anticipating needs of visitors and catering to them the Dural are more able to attract foreigners and facilitate trade. +5% foreign trade route for all cities. 75 base cost (+15 hammers per instance beyond the first). Replaces tavern.

Military tactical theory. Strategies are developped and made a part of the the military unit training. +2 exp to all units of a particular type. Separate building to replace training yard, archery range, jousting tilt, hunting lodge.

Certain infrastructure-type buildings are unchanged (forge, harbor, walls, granary).

Rather than receiving great generals, the Dural take their military knowledge and share it as part of the training process. All units start with extra experience equal to total experience earned ^ 0.5 / 10 (so +1 exp at 100 exp total, +2 at 400 total, +3 at 900 total, etc).

Guilds might work differently too, but I haven't quite decided how.

As for the under-the-hood stuff, I plan on using the event code for modifying the output of buildings to get the one super-building. This will be controlled using python. The game will save anything created in the __init__ stage, so that makes variable management easy.
 
Completely uninstalled then reinstalled, both poblems persist. Is this a feature that I'm just missing that's in or am I seriously the only person with this problem? 0.o
 
Although it's possible something else happened... Loki's spells are busted, entertain does nothing at all and the other isn't even available to cast. And they were working fine before I loaded the mod... Followed the instructions. Anyone else having this problem or is my computer being stupid again?

And I can't explore lairs apparently.

I had the lair explorating problem for a while. then after further tweaking it started working again. I have no idea what fixed the problem. I'll see about getting out version 0.11 tonight (the one I'm using right now).

Part of what's been gnawing at me is I'm still getting OOS issues, seeming to relate to how the AI and barbarian units respond to one another. And another thing I've noticed, if I spam a command to a unit over and over again while another computer is still processing the turn, it causes an OOS issue (but it saves the unit from the barb-goes-first AI).
 
Some ideas I posted in the small idea thread:

New great person type: Great mage (might replace the sage)
Can be upgraded to a mage unit based on available tech (so later on they can become arch mages with the starting experience)
Crystalize mana. Take a mana node in cultural borders and make it a part of the palace. This consumes the great person but does not consume the mana node.
Master enchanter. Not necessarily using enchantment magic, but using various spell spheres to give different bonuses like +1 fire combat with fire mana.

Also, I've been considering the tech lines. Any successful civ is going to require delving into all of the techs to really succeed. The AIs tend to beeline and it hurts them in the long run since they never pick up simple stuff like cartography (for better trades), trade (for tech trading), KotE (for basic magic), or often many religions go unexploited and OO can be picked up mid-game.

As is, the economic techs and military techs are pretty well tied and fairly beefy, but the magic, religious, recon lines seem a bit scant. Maybe I just haven't beelined hard enough myself, who knows.
 
Those Dural projects look interesting, as does the mana nicking! Would be cool to add mana to your palace, just in case.
 
Part of why I'm considering merging some of the civs is the game already has many, many mechanics for differentiating civilizations. In Vanilla Civ, there are unique things for each civ (UUs, UBs), and traits for leaders. In FFH, there's lots of different features available but they're pidgeonholed and locked up to different features, tied to civs rather than more common grounds so more civs can enjoy those features and make playing more of a matter of choice of play style rather than playing how your civ tells you to. I would much rather see a few well developped civs with several strategies each rather than a bunch of shallow civs with a single gimmick. This is part of what made SMAC such a great game. It focused on 7 factions and in most size maps they were all present.

Anyhow, some things that can be made more general in FFH, a way of making certain features more available.

Race. The differences could between the Luchiurp and the Kahazad could be tied to the differences between neutral and good civs and made more readily available, for example.
Religion. Since FFH isn't trying to be PC, features can be tied to religion instead of specific civilizations.
Mana. Spells offer a wide variety of versatility, including versatility, stackbusting, instant-built cities (or at least cities with a few bonuses), stack buffers, etc.
Good/Neutral/Evil. Could tie more features to this to make players want to choose a particular alignment.
 
I think the goal with FfH was to make sure that each game FAILS to include numerous features, meaning it will play out quite different from other ones. And to ensure that your experience with one civ or another is RADICALLY different, rather than just a single unit and a single building having one stat slightly different.

The goal is of course to still have multiple strategies available per Civ, but also to have multiple strategies which don't make much sense for each Civ.
 
I think there are plenty of ways to do that aside from gimmicks given to just 1-2 civs. Tying exclusive features to traits or tech trees or religion means even the same civilization might play out differently. The wild mana change floating around means tying features to mana might help differentiate games and keep playability high.

Other possibilities for keeping replayability high is having random armageddon results. Or, better yet, tying the armageddon counter into the random event and making some very large in scope events (like the blight).
 
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