My personal thread: Clarification of certain game mechanics

[Ghpstage]

I have another query though, and figured it was better to post it here than in the General Forum, as the city gifting thread didn't get a lot of love.

What are the requirements for getting an AI to convert religion? Sometimes I see "Too few of our people follow that faith", so I assume one city having it isn't enough. What are the thresholds?

This bit is the cause of that;

	if (getStateReligion() != NO_RELIGION)
	{
		if (getHasReligionCount(eReligion) < std::min((getHasReligionCount(getStateReligion()) - 1), (getNumCities() / 2)))
		{
			return DENIAL_MINORITY_RELIGION;
		}
	}

If the number of cities with the proposed religion an AI has is less than the minimum of
(Cities with current state religion) - 1
or,
Half the number of cities they own

They will give that excuse to not sell.
The only other refusal type it seems, is the typical "we dont like you enough" which has its own diplo threshold in the xml.


Other than that, remember that being able to trade something to an AI to get them to change religion is one thing, getting them to stay in that religion afterwards is another matter entirely!

 

[Ghpstage]

Nevermind, already known

 

[Pangaea]

Time to get this thread back where it belongs, on the first page.

It is modified by game speed:

Hammers = SabotageCost / InfluenceCivicsCost * 67 (Quick speed)
Hammers = SabotageCost / InfluenceCivicsCost * 150 (Epic speed)
Hammers = SabotageCost / InfluenceCivicsCost * 200 (Marathon speed)​

(5000 / 800) * 200 = 1250/1500H

Sorry if this ruined your cheese victory.

Very useful information. Influence civic cost doesn't always show, but I see that it is almost twice as much as City Revolt cost. That explains the formula Seraiel gave me, which for Marathon was SabotageCost / CityRevoltCost * 100.

Bad news for my current game, as it means Pericles is about half-way done with Hanging Gardens, and there is nothing I can really do about it. Where is the IMF when you want to shut down the Greek economy...

 

[Seraiel]

Great that you digged out this thread Pangaea! Also interesting for me, to see Doshin's forumlas again, because as you know, I also didn't remember them correctly anymore.

 

[Seraiel]

I thought I'd ask in this thread, because it seems most fitting. I also think, that we should keep this thread alive and anybody that can explain something, should do so in the honor of Tachywaxon's and her work.

Question: How does shared diplomatic stance because of Vassals work?

I always thought, that the lowest diplomatic stance gets chosen, so if oneself is friendly to somebody and has two vassals that are one friendly and one pleased, pleased stance gets chosen. This can't be right though, because I just tried to peace vassal Huyana Capac, and he sais he doesn't like me enough. According to CIV Illustrated #1, he peacevassals at pleased or higher, and the stances are like described (friendly, friendly, pleased) .

Subquestion: How come Catherine doesn't peacevassal at cautious or higher, like described? I tried to in the same game when I still had no Vassals, she was pleased to me, still she "didn't like me enough" . I remember Pangaea having had the same problem.

Tia,

Seraiel

 

[SpK]

Seraiel - does it put you over 50% of the world power in your alliance?
I know permanent alliance has that block so maybe peace vassalage does too?

It's got to be a power level check, maybe it is at different levels for different leaders, just like some leaders stop trading techs when you get too far ahead?? Some kind of range of strong enough but not too strong. .... maybe?

Don't know any specifics though. ..

 

[Seraiel]

Seraiel - does it put you over 50% of the world power in your alliance?
I know permanent alliance has that block so maybe peace vassalage does too?

It's got to be a power level check, maybe it is at different levels for different leaders, just like some leaders stop trading techs when you get too far ahead?? Some kind of range of strong enough but not too strong. .... maybe?

Don't know any specifics though. ..

If it put me above or near the domination-limit, the answer would be "We'd like to win this game" "You've grown too powerful for us" iirc., and if power was the problem AI would answer "We're doing fine on our own" .

 

[Pangaea]

I thought I'd ask in this thread, because it seems most fitting. I also think, that we should keep this thread alive and anybody that can explain something, should do so in the honor of Tachywaxon's and her work.

Question: How does shared diplomatic stance because of Vassals work?

I always thought, that the lowest diplomatic stance gets chosen, so if oneself is friendly to somebody and has two vassals that are one friendly and one pleased, pleased stance gets chosen. This can't be right though, because I just tried to peace vassal Huyana Capac, and he sais he doesn't like me enough. According to CIV Illustrated #1, he peacevassals at pleased or higher, and the stances are like described (friendly, friendly, pleased) .

Subquestion: How come Catherine doesn't peacevassal at cautious or higher, like described? I tried to in the same game when I still had no Vassals, she was pleased to me, still she "didn't like me enough" . I remember Pangaea having had the same problem.

Tia,

Seraiel

I wonder about this as well, and do recall that Catherine game in question. It was really strange. The only thing I can imagine, knowing the rules better now, is that she has above average military. I don't remember if that could have been the case in that old Cathy game, as I don't recall the situation she was in.

Looking at Pericles in my current game. He will trade health resources at cautious, maps at pleased.

His relation to me and my vassals
Me: Pleased
Asoka: Cautious
Frederick: Cautious
Mansa: Annoyed

Pericles is willing to trade me health resources (in this case rice for Sushi, if that matters), but not his map. This suggests he is in reality cautious, so the bottom of the relations (Mansa) isn't chosen, otherwise he shouldn't be willing to trade rice either.

Washington. He is cautious to me and Mansa, but pleased with Frederick and Asoka. He should be willing to stop trading with others if he is Pleased with me, but the game tells me "We don't like you enough" so I suppose this means he is Cautious, despite 2 Cautious and 2 Pleased relations.

Any code divers that can shed light on this?

 

[Seraiel]

ZPV found the answer to my question by codediving! You can read it in his last two posts of the G-Major 137 Megathread! Thx again ZPV!

 

[Tatran]

Throw in the permanent alliances and the diplomatic situation becomes more complex.

I remember a game where 2 masters/teams were left.
My team + vassal and Shaka + vassals. Shaka was friendly towards me + our vassal and only pleased towards my ally.
So, I knew Shaka would sooner or later dow us and he did. And it got ugly. You don't want a nuclear war with an AI which has 89 cities.

 

[Seraiel]

Throw in the permanent alliances and the diplomatic situation becomes more complex.

I remember a game where 2 masters/teams were left.
My team + vassal and Shaka + vassals. Shaka was friendly towards me + our vassal and only pleased towards my ally.
So, I knew Shaka would sooner or sooner dow us and he did. And it got ugly. You don't want a nuclear war with an AI which has 89 cities.

I once played this game where I built some nukes, is it possible to nuke the nukes? If it is, that AI would have been dead meat :

 

[Tatran]

How on earth did you manage to build 4628 ICBMs?
Maybe a better question would be, why?

 

[Seraiel]

How on earth did you manage to build 4628 ICBMs?
Maybe a better question would be, why?

Time Game + Mining Inc.

And first I only wanted to use them for peacekeeping, but then I thought I could also put up a new record or make someone who examines the save wonder ^^ . Probably the same reason why I built this anti-espionage-net in another game :



The stack is btw. one of 3 or 4 .

 

[Manco Capac]

How this d@mn thread succeeded crawling back to life is beyond me?

 

[Seraiel]

How this d@mn thread succeeded crawling back to life is beyond me?

The really good things never die Tachy .

 

[Seraiel]

Next question: Does choosing tororidal worldwrap cripple the AIs too?

We all know how horrible the maintenance one needs to pay on tororidal maps is, but my question is, if the AIs suffers from this too. In the recent Gauntlet, we found out that the AI often has unbelievable amounts of banked, and often runs a slider above 80% with only little deficit on Deity.

Would be nice if anybody could shed light on this.

Tia,

Seraiel

 

[SpK]

I play Vanilla, so can't be certain, but I say yes, but not enough to matter at higher levels.
I believe elsewhere you said Tororidol is double the maintenance of flat?
Deity is 30% to research cost, a large map so there is enough room for distance maintenance to matter more than number of cities maintenance cost is another 40% with the 40% discount on AI costs for Deity added in you hit 110% cost difference so more than the double maintenance cost.

I don't believe a smaller map would be large enough for the typical AI civilization to grow large enough for it to matter...

Immortal and lower would come out in your favor, but overall more maintenance would just slow the tech rate down, especially once inflation starts to kick in....

It should anyways, which means the advantage of a decisive military tech would last longer. .... I would assume whipping early rushes (especially elepult) gets even stronger cause more time before longbowman appear to attempt to counter you...

ofc it also makes less available to keep a large military force, but the AI will still easily beat us for unit spamming... their stacks might just be slightly smaller xD

 

[Seraiel]

Thx for your post SpK, but I need a definite answer of this.

Doesn't anyone here have a savegame of a Deity-game he played on Tororidal, where he had enough :espioinage: -points on a target, to see at which %-age it's running the slider?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Is it better to whip right after or right before a city grows to the next size? Granary obviously already long in place.

 

[Seraiel]

Yes. Right before, if you don't whip away strong tiles and right after, if you would lose a turn on a really strong tile (like Horses and better) .