My take on stuff

[Toffer90]

It was compatible, it is no more, will be again in the next update though.

It is 18 days old and only tested on SVN 8811
Next update is incoming but it's been hard to keep up with all the changes lately so the update has taken more time than I hoped.

And yes, I might have missed some of the SVN changes here and there.

 

[Toffer90]

Toffer's C2C modmod v0.1.3.8 for Rev.8858

• Added new law enforcer unit, Band Guardian, and moved Tribal guardian to tribalism.
• Band Guardian is now awarded at the founding of the first city instead of Tribal Guardian.
• Tweaked some stuff here and there.
• Added in some changes to the Hide and Seek Size invisibility system.

I've not played the game since the last version so there has been no testing other than seeing that the game launches properly. Here's hoping there won't be any big issues.

Edit: isj, the size invisibility stuff related to hide and seek is broken in the modmod at the moment.

Toffer's C2C modmod v0.1.3.8.1 for Rev.8860
-Made Hunting Sight I and II give size visibility intensity.

 

[Toffer90]

Toffer's C2C modmod v0.1.3.9 for Rev.8861

• Substantial change to late prehistoric-early ancient part of tech tree

 

[Thunderbrd]

Some interesting concepts in that tree. I like digging as a tech. More to consider of course.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I still have not had chance to play this but there seem to be some wild inaccuracies in the tech tree. Both Drying and Tracking make no sense() where they are. Basketry and Cooking should be a prerequisite Earthenware and so on. Maybe if I read the descriptions of what those techs are I may agree.:sigh:

 

[Toffer90]

I still have not had chance to play this but there seem to be some wild inaccuracies in the tech tree. Both Drying and Tracking make no sense() where they are. Basketry and Cooking should be a prerequisite Earthenware and so on. Maybe if I read the descriptions of what those techs are I may agree.:sigh:

Earthenware is far from necessary to heat treat foodstuff. Earth ovens were in the early stages used without any form of container, and it's easy to fasten some food to a stick and place it over/close to the fire. But now when I think about it you might have meant the other way around... Earthenware could require cooking but I'm not sure it's inaccurate if it doesn't. Why would the knowledge of basketry be required to figure out how to make earthenware?
I think it's reasonable that people figured out quite quickly the advantages of drying things after they started gathering stuff. It only unlocks the drying of meat, fish and fruits.
Tracking got placed there to give the chaser, in most cases, a longer game life, it was not an easy task as tracking had to be between hunting and persistance hunting, hunting couldn't be too far from persistance hunting but tracking had to be far from persistance hunting. I figured that walking the same paths over and over again is somehow tied to ritualistic behaviour.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Earthenware is far from necessary to heat treat foodstuff. Earth ovens were in the early stages used without any form of container, and it's easy to fasten some food to a stick and place it over/close to the fire. But now when I think about it you might have meant the other way around... Earthenware could require cooking but I'm not sure it's inaccurate if it doesn't. Why would the knowledge of basketry be required to figure out how to make earthenware?

The idea is - baskets that had clay lining to hold water got too close to the fire and burnt leaving pottery. The basis for this was very very early pottery having the impression of woven material on their out sides.

I.E. it was an accident. Perhaps add an event that discovers Earthenware if you have Basketry but not Earthenware?

I think it's reasonable that people figured out quite quickly the advantages of drying things after they started gathering stuff. It only unlocks the drying of meat, fish and fruits.

Except it also opens drying racks or do they still come later due to another tech requirement?

Tracking got placed there to give the chaser, in most cases, a longer game life, it was not an easy task as tracking had to be between hunting and persistance hunting, hunting couldn't be too far from persistance hunting but tracking had to be far from persistance hunting. I figured that walking the same paths over and over again is somehow tied to ritualistic behaviour.

And I still totally disagree with the basis for this decision. Remove the Chaser unit. It was only added in as an afterthought to cover the times you could not get the Hunting Lodge. Now the Hunting Loge requirement has gone you don't need the Chaser and you don't need to move the techs around either.

 

[Toffer90]

The idea is - baskets that had clay lining to hold water got too close to the fire and burnt leaving pottery. The basis for this was very very early pottery having the impression of woven material on their out sides.

I.E. it was an accident. Perhaps add an event that discovers Earthenware if you have Basketry but not Earthenware?

Seems like a fitting event scenario, rather that than having earthenware require basketry as I'm sure others might have noticed how clay around a fire reacted to the heat instead of having an "accident".

Except it also opens drying racks or do they still come later due to another tech requirement?

Drying rack requires both binding and drying.

And I still totally disagree with the basis for this decision. Remove the Chaser unit. It was only added in as an afterthought to cover the times you could not get the Hunting Lodge. Now the Hunting Loge requirement has gone you don't need the Chaser and you don't need to move the techs around either.

Heh that works for me.

 

[Toffer90]

Toffer's C2C modmod v0.1.3.9.1 for Rev.8861

• Made adjustments to tracking tech position per DH's opinion. I kept the chaser though.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

As it is now, I might even try it. (Sorry, I am very grumpy today)

Strangely enough I have no trouble with Canine Domestication and Herding. Herding is what lead to the domestication of other animals. There is even archaeological evidence for the transition as both wild and domesticated appear to have been eaten.

 

[Toffer90]

As it is now, I might even try it. (Sorry, I am very grumpy today)

Don't worry, I'm used to your mood swings. ^^

Strangely enough I have no trouble with Canine Domestication and Herding. Herding is what lead to the domestication of other animals. There is even archaeological evidence for the transition as both wild and domesticated appear to have been eaten.

I did a lot of reading on the subject and it seemed to me plausible that canines were the first animals properly domesticated by man.

Spoiler :

Archeologic finding: 24,000 BC 50-metre trail of footprints made by a boy of about ten years of age alongside those of a large canid. The size and position of the canid's shortened middle toe in relation to its pads indicates a dog rather than a wolf. The footprints have been dated by soot deposited from the torch the child was carrying.

This was in the end what made me decide on having those two techs like that. The article had some arguments about how the canine could not have been chasing/hunting/stalking the child.

 

[Thunderbrd]

One observation:
Hunters often utilize AtlAtls by UnitCombat (and probably should). Therefore, I would put Hunting Tactics after Atlatl.

Where would you place the new Deception tech? Would it perhaps go after arrangement and above Oral Tradition? Also requiring Cooperation? The current projection places it on X2 and it does help the unit costs there. Perhaps Arrangement shouldn't be a necessity but I can certainly see Cooperation, if an X1 tech, being a prereq (it was a prereq FOR Cooperation with the current expected arrangement.)

I was also going to be shifting the position of Conduct significantly. I'll have to look at this vs my notes there to see what would be necessary to do with that.

If we're going to adopt this new prehistoric tech arrangement we need to do it soon or it's going to be even tougher to adapt to the few tech changes I had planned. That said, I can adapt to either way I think. I think.

 

[Toffer90]

One observation:
Hunters often utilize AtlAtls by UnitCombat (and probably should). Therefore, I would put Hunting Tactics after Atlatl.

It has been a requirement for hunt. tact. earlier in this modmods development, dunno why I removed it, probably because I ended up having hunt.tact. on the same or smaller x coordinate. I will add in that andprereq anyway.

Where would you place the new Deception tech? Would it perhaps go after arrangement and above Oral Tradition? Also requiring Cooperation? The current projection places it on X2 and it does help the unit costs there. Perhaps Arrangement shouldn't be a necessity but I can certainly see Cooperation, if an X1 tech, being a prereq (it was a prereq FOR Cooperation with the current expected arrangement.)

A bit difficult to evaluate without knowing what the tech will contain; but it seems only natural that it would come right after agreements as a deception is dependent on there being an agreement in the first place.

I was also going to be shifting the position of Conduct significantly. I'll have to look at this vs my notes there to see what would be necessary to do with that.

I could adapt on this one as well; not terribly important that it is where it currently is.

If we're going to adopt this new prehistoric tech arrangement we need to do it soon or it's going to be even tougher to adapt to the few tech changes I had planned. That said, I can adapt to either way I think. I think.

Not that terribly big a rush as I would adapt any changes in the SVN into my modmod the way I find appropriate.

 

[Toffer90]

Toffer's C2C modmod v0.1.3.9.2 for Rev.8861.7z

• Moved GroundStone and Tattoos techs to a more fitting place on the tree.
• Hunter and master hunter requires atlatl making instead of hunting tactics; hunting tactics is still very important for hunting.

 

[Thunderbrd]

A bit difficult to evaluate without knowing what the tech will contain; but it seems only natural that it would come right after agreements as a deception is dependent on there being an agreement in the first place.

Not sure I agree. Deception is an act that humanity may have learned before language itself. Misdirection IS Deception. And this can be done entirely non-verbally and while it can corrupt an agreement, is not predicated on the understanding of a concept of agreement. Baiting a trap is an example. Disguising one's self is an example. We tend to think of it as an entirely negative thing but in truth it's a depth of human mental development that has enabled us to advance tremendously.

 

[Toffer90]

Not sure I agree. Deception is an act that humanity may have learned before language itself. Misdirection IS Deception. And this can be done entirely non-verbally and while it can corrupt an agreement, is not predicated on the understanding of a concept of agreement. Baiting a trap is an example. Disguising one's self is an example. We tend to think of it as an entirely negative thing but in truth it's a depth of human mental development that has enabled us to advance tremendously.

Sure, it does of course depend on the type of deceit we are talking about.
The thing is that there are many techs that represents things that probably existed before the tech is reached in one form or another at different scales. Conduct, agreements, celebration, counting, mathematics and many other techs does not mark the absolute start of these concepts.

If that is the nature of the techs content then cooperation would be a better fit as a prerequisite. Though, deceit is far from a trait unique to humans.

I was thinking about bigger scale deceits that requires many people to be in on it.

 

[Toffer90]

Toffer's C2C modmod v0.1.3.9.3 → 0.1.3.9.6

• Maintenance updates.

 

[colonelflag]

Hi Toffer90,

Great Modmod.

I noticed when using it however that Goody Huts gave me units several techs ahead of where I was. e.g I got a Hunter and Spearmen just 20 turns into the game, making my Brute seem useless. Is this working as designed and was i just lucky ?

Cheers
Colonelflag

 

[Toffer90]

Hi Toffer90,

Great Modmod.

I noticed when using it however that Goody Huts gave me units several techs ahead of where I was. e.g I got a Hunter and Spearmen just 20 turns into the game, making my Brute seem useless. Is this working as designed and was i just lucky ?

Cheers
Colonelflag

Thanks.
It's working as designed, I decided I could do this in the prehistoric and ancient era without making the game unbalanced. Only units that are not available from goodies in preHis are the obsidian warriors and archers. In later eras there are less advanced units available from the goodies. Luck played a role as there are plenty of outcomes.

 

[colonelflag]

Thanks.
It's working as designed, I decided I could do this in the prehistoric and ancient era without making the game unbalanced. Only units that are not available from goodies in preHis are the obsidian warriors and archers. In later eras there are less advanced units available from the goodies. Luck played a role as there are plenty of outcomes.

¥

Ok - thanks ! I am playing your ModMod with the recommended SVN version, i assume it is not yet safe to update to the latest SVN version ?