If there's a "Patriarchy" civic, any player would probably wonder why there isn't a Matriarchy also, even if that's historically not very accurate... So one way to have it would be to have a non-distinct "gender-based rule" or "Patriarchy/Matriarchy" or whatever. Another would be to have a Matriarchy civic - but with exactly the same effects as Patriarchy (making Patriarchy vs. Matriarchy mainly a cosmetic choice, but why not?) :]
My take on stuff
- Thread starter Toffer90
- Start date
If there's a "Patriarchy" civic, any player would probably wonder why there isn't a Matriarchy also, even if that's historically not very accurate... So one way to have it would be to have a non-distinct "gender-based rule" or "Patriarchy/Matriarchy" or whatever. Another would be to have a Matriarchy civic - but with exactly the same effects as Patriarchy (making Patriarchy vs. Matriarchy mainly a cosmetic choice, but why not?) :]
Agreed, although there could be strategy to them if defined correctly. I've concluded that we get rid of both and use Lineage as a replacement for the empty seat.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Matriarchy is fairly common in pre-agricultural societies but so is dual-gender ie women ruled by women and men by men in the same society. There is even evidence that women lived in towns well before men based just from their diet.
The Language civic is in C2C for one reason only. There is no other way of influencing relationships with others. When you adopt the civic it changes their attitude towards you, it does not affect your attitude towards them.
I want 3 religion civics to replace the current one.
I think maybe it would be best if I step away from C2C completely for awhile and just work on a mod for Nomadic Start.
The Language civic is in C2C for one reason only. There is no other way of influencing relationships with others. When you adopt the civic it changes their attitude towards you, it does not affect your attitude towards them.
I want 3 religion civics to replace the current one.
I think maybe it would be best if I step away from C2C completely for awhile and just work on a mod for Nomadic Start.
Yes, this is why I struggled with the removal of matriarchy for a while; I guess those societies will be represented by tribal and/or band society with the new system. Lineage should unlock after sedentary lifestyle at least, and not far from caste system.
I was thinking that the same relationship modifiers could be placed in the new SOCIETY category.
I would like to hear your thoughts on that, I guess you've written about it somewhere but I must have missed it.
That would be great, any progress on nomadic start would be worth anyones absence.
If you think of any civic mechanics that could reflect the nomadic start I hope you will keep me in the loop, as I will be working on civics for a while.
Exactly. If that is the civic's sole use, anything that civic does can be done by any other civic with actual choices to make. That should go without saying.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I don't have my notes here but basically I think there needs to be one civic that represents the Animism, Pantheism, Polytheism, Monotheism and Non-theism axis of religion as well as the way the religion is organised.
There also needs to be a property of each religion expressing how "developed" it is. The more developed the more that can be done with the religion. It needs to one level to build temples another to build Shrines and another to build Cathedrals.
Then there needs to be a "piety" type property that represents the strength of the religion in your nation or perhaps city. It may replace the current city pop value in a better way. This is something we would need for cultures as well.
My current thinking on nomadic start suggests that we may need a civic before Pastoral and Agricultural. "Follow the Food" or something. It represents the fact that the group move on a well known seasonal path that gets to places when the food is at its best. This may be following a herd or moving to the coast when the fish/seals bread there and then to an area of fruit in autumn.
I will try and get my current thinking on Nomadic Start detailed in the thread. My current idea needs two new replacements for cities and probably an early implementation of multi-maps. All of which is still to be proven to be workable.
Noriad2
Emperor
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,153
I think that such a religion civic is fundamentally a wrong idea. A religion is a kind of separate group that can cross civilizations or be followed by only part of a civilization. A civic however is about exactly one civilization. For example, there are Catholics all over the world. But it is the Vatican that decides the doctrine of Catholicism, not the local rulers. And Turks and Mongols follow several religions.
Also, the purpose of a civic is that you can choose to go back and forth between the options (assuming you have more than one option due to tech). Catholicism is monotheistic. And people all over the world can convert to Catholicism if they meet a missionary, regardless of tech level of his civilization (tech level determines available civics).
Furthermore, making religion the internal affair of one civ removes a very important diplomatic tool: matching religion with your neighbour civ to increase friendship which makes it easier to form an alliance.
If anything, it is the religions themselves that need civics. For example, a religion can promote peace or promote holy war. The civ that owns the Holy City should be allowed to make such choices for that individual religion.
You already choose a state religion, this is a civic choice as well. The effects of a particular religion should be pretty much out of the players control (except when there could be two mutually exclusive religion buildings that have two different effects).
Government can only restrict or grant privileges to the clergy through civics. This is well represented with the already existing RELIGION civic category; although this category could be enhanced in this aspect.
DH's suggestion is an intriguing concept, that if a monotheistic religion is spread to a people that still practices polytheism or pantheism (they might be behind in tech and not ready for monotheism) they will make their own version of said monotheistic religion that has elements of polytheism or pantheism in it, meaning a different branch of how a religion is followed. This could make the same religion affect different civs in different ways, and is a though worth evaluating. If we could implement autobuilt downsides that last for a while after changing civics and is specific to the change that was made, we could even make it undesirable for a civ to become a fully monotheistic nation that has for example judaism as their state religion.
Just some of my quick not well thought trough thoughts. ^^
v.0.6.6 - Experimental
I have not started to redo civics from scratch yet, as I am focusing on having a more solid foundation in game-balance. I think I'm getting close to something here:
I've made extensive changes to difficulty, game-speeds and map size parameters with the goal of reducing these options impact on the overall game-balance.
I've not have time to test all the different game-option combinations extensively but I've started 4 test-games, all on deity difficulty.
I have not started to redo civics from scratch yet, as I am focusing on having a more solid foundation in game-balance. I think I'm getting close to something here:
I've made extensive changes to difficulty, game-speeds and map size parameters with the goal of reducing these options impact on the overall game-balance.
I've not have time to test all the different game-option combinations extensively but I've started 4 test-games, all on deity difficulty.
- Giant-eternity
- Giant-normal
- Duel-normal
- Duel-eternity
FIXED
I found a bug, the length of a golden age is no longer displayed; the golden age still works, but in the experimental version you will not know how long it will last.... will try to fix this asap.
EDIT:
OK so I figured out that this thingy [szDateGA = unicode(CyGameTextMgr().getInterfaceTimeStr(ePlayer))] makes a call to the dll which then returns both golden age turns left and the calendar info as a string.
So how would I go about getting it to only return info on golden age; or perhaps i could subtract the last part of the string (calendar info) in some way afterwards.
Right now I'm stuck on my own and will need help.
FIXED
I found a bug, the length of a golden age is no longer displayed; the golden age still works, but in the experimental version you will not know how long it will last.... will try to fix this asap.
EDIT:
OK so I figured out that this thingy [szDateGA = unicode(CyGameTextMgr().getInterfaceTimeStr(ePlayer))] makes a call to the dll which then returns both golden age turns left and the calendar info as a string.
So how would I go about getting it to only return info on golden age; or perhaps i could subtract the last part of the string (calendar info) in some way afterwards.
Right now I'm stuck on my own and will need help.
FIXED
A not very elegant way would be to use autobuild buildings depending on the civic and the iHealthPercentPerPopulation and iHappinessPercentPerPopulation tags. It's invisible to the AI and not easily visible for the player though.
Easiest way is to look in the corresponding schema.
I'm not the expert, but I'm pretty sure that's it.
Noriad2
Emperor
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,153
Suppose your whole country is Christian, and you set DH's civic (*) to Animism. Or a spy does that in a spy action. What would happen with your civ? I haven't the faintest idea, that's why I don't understand the civic.
(*) Animism, Pantheism, Polytheism, Monotheism and Non-theism
It's always possible that some tags in the schema don't exist in the dll and visa versa.
It would be possible to add new tags to the CivicInfo but i don't want to add completely new stuff until what we have at the moment works.
