My take on stuff

[Toffer90]

I started a new game on Emperor as I was suggested and I'm quite frustrated how I can spam as much cities as I want even before Sed. Lifestyle! The maintenance drops from +10 to -16 when I found a new one, but by the time the next Tribe can found a city it's at +10 again.

I'm not using your modmod, did you increase the maintenance here?

Who suggested emperor? I've only tested on Deity but I don't think difficulty would have such an impact on economy...
What civics were you running? In my test games both me and the 12 other AI only have 3-4 cities when we usually (without the modmod have about 6-12)

This modmod is not finished by far.

 

[Rwn]

I started a new game on Emperor as I was suggested and I'm quite frustrated how I can spam as much cities as I want even before Sed. Lifestyle! The maintenance drops from +10 to -16 when I found a new one, but by the time the next Tribe can found a city it's at +10 again.

I'm not using your modmod, did you increase the maintenance here?

I don't think this "problem" can be fixed just by tweaking maintenance. I'd say what is needed is to extend the delay before a city can generate a net profit (and in the meantime have maybe a less costly maintenance so that you don't have to save hundreds of before founding a city).

 

[Toffer90]

I don't think this "problem" can be fixed just by tweaking maintenance. I'd say what is needed is to extend the delay before a city can generate a net profit (and in the meantime have maybe a less costly maintenance so that you don't have to save hundreds of before founding a city).

At the time you found your 3. city with this modmod there should be a hefty -90-105% in all cities and -5-45%:gold in the capital depending on if you are using banditry/divine cult or not.

but more distance to palace maintenance would also have a similar effect but this should be close to 500% already in this scenario.

Edit: Perhaps I didn't include the right files in the download, that would be bad....

 

[Rwn]

At the time you found your 3. city with this modmod there should be a hefty -90-105% in all cities and -5-45%:gold in the capital depending on if you are using banditry/divine cult or not.

Problem is, that will not only prevent new cities from being built, but also crush your economy... So, unless you're already familiar with the new maintenance settings, you'll learn the hard way that you shouldn't have founded that new city. While I agree that increasing maintenance from number of cities is a key part of the solution, I'm just saying that you shouldn't overdo it because there's another part linked with the building construction/income.

 

[Toffer90]

Problem is, that will not only prevent new cities from being built, but also crush your economy... So, unless you're already familiar with the new maintenance settings, you'll learn the hard way that you shouldn't have founded that new city. While I agree that increasing maintenance from number of cities is a key part of the solution, I'm just saying that you shouldn't overdo it because there's another part linked with the building construction/income.

Yes, I keep all these things in mind when tweaking economy in this modmod.
I'm mostly surprised by faustmouses feedback and will not increase maintenance more than I've already done, I might decrease them even as my test game seems to indicate that it's a bit too high.


Edit: Maybe Faustmouse is playing a version of C2C that still has the pretribemaint, special building. that would explain his experience up until chiefdom at least.

 

[Rwn]

Yes, I keep all these things in mind when tweaking economy in this modmod.
I'm mostly surprised by faustmouses feedback and will not increase maintenance more than I've already done, I might decrease them even as my test game seems to indicate that it's a bit too high.

Faustmouse isn't using your modmod

 

[Toffer90]

Faustmouse isn't using your modmod

Hahaha I misunderstood his meaning.... I though he meant he would stop using my mod in his last sentence.


Try it out Faustmouse I think it will solve that perticular problem, I would appreciate any feedback you can give me, and remember that it only, atm, affect the earliest civics.
I want this modmod to be something most people will prefer to play with, and some of my changes can be a bit extreme, so I need others to tell me where I overdid it.

 

[Faustmouse]

Who suggested emperor? I've only tested on Deity but I don't think difficulty would have such an impact on economy...
What civics were you running? In my test games both me and the 12 other AI only have 3-4 cities when we usually (without the modmod have about 6-12)

This modmod is not finished by far.

Chiefdom, Obedience, Strongman, Tribal, Barter, Militia, Divine Cult, Survival, Burn Garbage, No Boarders, Oral tradition, Native Language, Subsince Agriculture, No Currency, Community Labor. Just researched Sed. Lifestyle and having 8 cities while my known neighbors have 3, 3 and 1. It's a Huge PM map on emperor and marathon with no weird options selected. I have no city limits from civics and no traits at all.

I asked Joseph what options he uses since he always says that the game is very balanced on these settings. But so far I encountered the too much gold problem here as well.

And Joseph? When do you usually miss Tengriism? Because I had no problem grapping it at 12400 BC?

Edit: No I'm not using your modmod currently because I wanted to try Joseph's settings first, but after the game is "won" I'll definetly try out your's and rwn's modmods Acutally, these where the main reasons I started playing again

 

[Toffer90]

Chiefdom, Obedience, Strongman, Tribal, Barter, Militia, Divine Cult, Survival, Burn Garbage, No Boarders, Oral tradition, Native Language, Subsince Agriculture, No Currency, Community Labor. Just researched Sed. Lifestyle and having 8 cities while my known neighbors have 3, 3 and 1. It's a Huge PM map on emperor and marathon with no weird options selected. I have no city limits from civics and no traits at all.

If you were to apply my mod on that game you would have large economic deficit at 0% research. those civics practically denies you more than 4 cities until mining and its metal civic.

Edit: No I'm not using your modmod currently because I wanted to try Joseph's settings first, but after the game is "won" I'll definetly try out your's and rwn's modmods Acutally, these where the main reasons I started playing again

I'll look forward to your opinion, and it's an honour to inspire a C2C vetran such as yourself.


EDIT: I would advice you to play with few resources in the mapscript option as this makes it more interesting as to where you should expand. though there will still be enormous amounts of resources around....

 

[Faustmouse]

If you were to apply my mod on that game you would have large economic deficit at 0% research. those civics practically denies you more than 4 cities until mining and its metal civic.

I'll look forward to your opinion, and it's an honour to inspire a C2C vetran such as yourself.

I will try your modmod on this game tomorrow, I'm curious!

EDIT: I would advice you to play with few resources in the mapscript option as this makes it more interesting as to where you should expand. though there will still be enormous amounts of resources around....

Yep I also do so and it's more of a challange than the GEM scenario, but I really dislike the quick pay-off of new cities. This certainly takes out a very important strategic element of when and where to expand!

 

[Toffer90]

v0.5.7.3

reduced unhealtiness from tribalism and subsistence civics.
lots of small adjustments.

 

[Toffer90]

okay, so heres the thing. This modmod makes the AI go bankrupt around ancient era which is not what I want to achieve.

The next version will try to tackle this problem by changing up difficulty handicaps to favor the AI more economically without taking it too far; hopefully.

It will probably take me 1-2 days from now to have it ready.

 

[JosEPh_II]

The "fun stuff" of Civic building, testing and unexpected results.

I just wish more ppl that come to the forum and post all these ideas had just an inkling of what they are really asking. Much less think thru what it is they are asking for. If 1/2 would do that the, impo, crazy requests would take a nosedive. And would free up those that do mod to concentrate on their area of choice.

I'm glad you Are testing Toffer, instead of making something and then saying here it is!

JosEPh

 

[Rwn]

The next version will try to tackle this problem by changing up difficulty handicaps to favor the AI more economically without taking it too far; hopefully.

This could be an opportunity to redo a bit the difficulty system... There are things that really don't bring anything or don't work well, like the free initial techs, the 2nd settler or the increased education/pop (and even crime/pop to a lesser extent) penalty.

 

[Toffer90]

This could be an opportunity to redo a bit the difficulty system... There are things that really don't bring anything or don't work well, like the free initial techs, the 2nd settler or the increased education/pop (and even crime/pop to a lesser extent) penalty.

My thoughts exactly, I have been testing for 3-4 hours a difficulty setup without free techs or tribes. Disease/education/crime is affected by difficulty but this is only an offset value instead of more less of it per population as it was.

At the moment I haven't reached tribalism yet but all civs I've met have higher scores than me, this used to be opposite. It now remains to be seen if a deity game becomes more fun or impossible. I don't want impossible but challanging.

Edit: I did however have very bad luck with hunting as well as a bad starting location, so it's to early to say much about the effects of my difficulty changes.

 

[Rwn]

I suggest moving to a different topic, this one really starts to mix too many things

 

[Toffer90]

Yeah, it's time to just open a modmod thread called "My take on stuff".

I'll probably start a thread for a difficulty change standalone, if it works well; but civics will need these changes to even work at all.

 

[Toffer90]

The "fun stuff" of Civic building, testing and unexpected results.

I just wish more ppl that come to the forum and post all these ideas had just an inkling of what they are really asking. Much less think thru what it is they are asking for. If 1/2 would do that the, impo, crazy requests would take a nosedive. And would free up those that do mod to concentrate on their area of choice.

You got that right, for sure.

I'm glad you Are testing Toffer, instead of making something and then saying here it is!

JosEPh

Otherwise would go against my nature ^^.

 

[Rwn]

I'll probably start a thread for a difficulty change standalone, if it works well; but civics will need these changes to even work at all.

I've opened a new thread with some ideas as you seemed to have a lot of things on your hands right know; if you'd rather have the hand on this difficulty modmod, don't hesitate.

 

[Toffer90]

v0.6 - big change

After my preliminary testing of the new difficulty scheme I am adequately satisfied with the result to release v0.6. The early game balance have changed a bit so expansion will be even slower now, this will be adjusted at a later stage, but for now the goals of this modmod is at least satisfied without the AI going bankrupt.

v0.6.1

-Refined difficulty and civic properties (dis./edu./crime); also fixed that crime and education didn't increase with population.
-Toned down maintenance cost from chiefdom from 300% distance to palace to 200%. This was to compensate for the new difficulty maintenance costs.
-Reduced barbarian city spawn and gave the AI a little more combat bonus against barbs/animals (5% on warlord and 35% on deity).