Sina
Warlord
I've got it now and civ seems to be in a playable state. Be back soon.
n0x-01 -- I Wonder...
- Thread starter n0xie
- Start date
Sina
Warlord
(0) 1655AD
Looks really nice!
(1) 1658AD
GM born in Madras. I move him to Delhi for the company.
IBT: Now Mao wants us to cancel deals with Hatty. Another no for him.
(2) 1661AD
Madras: Hindu Temple -> Frigate as I can't see any of our ships and I categorically don't trust Alex.
(3) 1664AD
Guangzhou: University -> Frigate. I don't trust Mao either.
(4) 1667AD
Bombay: Rifleman -> Islamic Missionary
(5) 1670AD
Calcutta: Market -> Observatory
IBT: Hatty offers Sugar for Gems. I don't see a reason why not, but will wait until next turn to see how safely we own the 2nd Gems.
(6) 1673AD
Gems look safe enough and I go ahead with the trade.
IBT: I don't trade World Maps with Hatty.
(7) 1676AD
Bombay: Islamic Missionary -> Rifleman
The 3 turns for the Missionary were sadly wasted. He fails.
(8) 1679AD
Steam Power -> Communism so that we can build the Kremlin and do something will all the cash we have.
Delhi: Grocer -> Observatory
Madras: Frigate -> Grocer
IBT: JC wants a Defensive Pact. I decline because I think such an important thing has to be discussed.
(9) 1682AD
Nothing really. Even our workers are bored.
(10) 1685AD
Hatty and Genghis make peace.
Communismn in 4 turns and we might need MT after that. I think everybody has it by now (I declined various ridiculous trade offers) and it'd be good if we had some Cavalry as deterent.
I suggest a civic change to Free Religion and UniSuff soon. We have quite a lot of towns now and I don't see any reason for Pacifism without Representation. We'll put most of our our Specialists to work then anyway.
Lastly, the big question. DP with JC or not?
View attachment 129070
Looks really nice!
(1) 1658AD
GM born in Madras. I move him to Delhi for the company.
IBT: Now Mao wants us to cancel deals with Hatty. Another no for him.
(2) 1661AD
Madras: Hindu Temple -> Frigate as I can't see any of our ships and I categorically don't trust Alex.
(3) 1664AD
Guangzhou: University -> Frigate. I don't trust Mao either.
(4) 1667AD
Bombay: Rifleman -> Islamic Missionary
(5) 1670AD
Calcutta: Market -> Observatory
IBT: Hatty offers Sugar for Gems. I don't see a reason why not, but will wait until next turn to see how safely we own the 2nd Gems.
(6) 1673AD
Gems look safe enough and I go ahead with the trade.
IBT: I don't trade World Maps with Hatty.
(7) 1676AD
Bombay: Islamic Missionary -> Rifleman
The 3 turns for the Missionary were sadly wasted. He fails.
(8) 1679AD
Steam Power -> Communism so that we can build the Kremlin and do something will all the cash we have.
Delhi: Grocer -> Observatory
Madras: Frigate -> Grocer
IBT: JC wants a Defensive Pact. I decline because I think such an important thing has to be discussed.
(9) 1682AD
Nothing really. Even our workers are bored.
(10) 1685AD
Hatty and Genghis make peace.
Communismn in 4 turns and we might need MT after that. I think everybody has it by now (I declined various ridiculous trade offers) and it'd be good if we had some Cavalry as deterent.
I suggest a civic change to Free Religion and UniSuff soon. We have quite a lot of towns now and I don't see any reason for Pacifism without Representation. We'll put most of our our Specialists to work then anyway.
Lastly, the big question. DP with JC or not?
View attachment 129070
Looks good Sina-glad you are back
!!
I don't know if the DP can be had with more than one person. I almost never use Defensive Pacts so I can't really say what effects it will have and will defer to the team's judgement on the issue.
In general I am very much in favor of continuing our very strong relations with Hatty and JC and as I did on my last turn I am in favor of propping them up. Gifting them techs as necessary, especially military techs. The last thing we want in Khan/Mao/Alex controlling JC/Hatty's land. That ensure late game war, which is something I think we want to avoid.
I am a bit confused about who follows whom so I did a roster based on the last turns (I hope this is okay)
-Kikinit-On deck
-Kanga
-Sina- Just fixed the computer
-Atlas- Up after some Defensive Pact discussion
!!I don't know if the DP can be had with more than one person. I almost never use Defensive Pacts so I can't really say what effects it will have and will defer to the team's judgement on the issue.
In general I am very much in favor of continuing our very strong relations with Hatty and JC and as I did on my last turn I am in favor of propping them up. Gifting them techs as necessary, especially military techs. The last thing we want in Khan/Mao/Alex controlling JC/Hatty's land. That ensure late game war, which is something I think we want to avoid.
I am a bit confused about who follows whom so I did a roster based on the last turns (I hope this is okay)
-Kikinit-On deck
-Kanga
-Sina- Just fixed the computer
-Atlas- Up after some Defensive Pact discussion
The roster looks fine. Now that we've got a rotation it's time for a roster.
I think we can hold out on the roster. If anyone declares we can gift a tech to get JC or Hatty to come into the war. They might even come in for free...
I think we should develop a bit of a deterent force to .. deter.
I think we can hold out on the roster. If anyone declares we can gift a tech to get JC or Hatty to come into the war. They might even come in for free...
I think we should develop a bit of a deterent force to .. deter.
Sina
Warlord
I just noticed that I forgot to give my opinion about the defensive pact.
Well, I don't know!
We'll get -1 with the other civs for it. The upside is that possible attackers will look at the combined power before they declare and JC usually has some army.
Hmmm...I think the argument for it are that we should agree to it if we are not planning on attacking Mao anytime soon and try to get one with Hatty as well (if that's possible). Additionally we should continue building Riflemen and research MT for Cavalry in case somebody declares on JC. This is just useful if JC is high on the power graph.
The downside of it could be that we are suddenly drawn into war becase somebody hates JC enough and doesn't think we are too strong. I think this is unlikely to happen and as we have tech superiority, we'll always be able to defend ourselves from sudden attacks.
I don't think I have had more than a few DPs in my games. My impression of it was quite good, but my sample size might just be too small to give a reasonable picture.
So, well, I still don't know.
Well, I don't know!
We'll get -1 with the other civs for it. The upside is that possible attackers will look at the combined power before they declare and JC usually has some army.
Hmmm...I think the argument for it are that we should agree to it if we are not planning on attacking Mao anytime soon and try to get one with Hatty as well (if that's possible). Additionally we should continue building Riflemen and research MT for Cavalry in case somebody declares on JC. This is just useful if JC is high on the power graph.
The downside of it could be that we are suddenly drawn into war becase somebody hates JC enough and doesn't think we are too strong. I think this is unlikely to happen and as we have tech superiority, we'll always be able to defend ourselves from sudden attacks.
I don't think I have had more than a few DPs in my games. My impression of it was quite good, but my sample size might just be too small to give a reasonable picture.
So, well, I still don't know.
Okay, now that we have heard from everybody on the Defensive Pact option. I will post a "got it"
For my ten turns I won't sign a DP since I have no experince with it, but the option will be open to the next player(s) should she/he want one.
-Atlas
For my ten turns I won't sign a DP since I have no experince with it, but the option will be open to the next player(s) should she/he want one.
-Atlas
T0-Our civics are Representation, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Market and Pacifism. I want to stay with Pacifism til we get another GP. But will change Representation to Universal Suffrage now.
T1-Guangzhou Frigate->Hermitage some other stuff.
T2-Move Settler to the north, we got room there for a good city.
T3-Zzzz
T4 Hindu Madir started in Nanjing, I want to hold on to that second gems for the rest of the game for certain. Kolhapur founded right on the uranium, it was there or a grassland tile, I think this was best.
T5-Communism comes in. Electricity up next, when that finishes we should do Assembly line
T6-Hatty wants to trade Mil. Trad. for Astronomy, I do it, why not? Then I trade HC Astronomy for Corporation. Then I cancel our deal of stone for copper with Hatty, we need stone for Oxford and the Kremlin. I then get copper back for spices plus 13gpt. A rip off, cancel if you want, but to us it is chump change and copper is useful for building the Spaceship if it comes to that. Kremlin in 16. Rush Buy granary in new city-Kolhpar.
T7-Josehp Marie Jacquard Great Engineer born. I am tempted to rush Oxford Library. I think it should go in the Capital Delhi. Chop hits Kolhpar on a forge-so I rush buy the rest of it, I want to get a decent free specialist from the Statue of Liberty in this city as is just had a regular citizen specialist.
T8-Hatty requests that we cancel our Deals with the Mongols, I think about it and agree. I don't think that we should go Free Religion, health is really our problem and we have a +6 Modifier with Hatty and +4 with JC due to religion, we should switch when they do.
T9-Zzzz
T10-Move some workers. After Electricity go for Assembly line, we need the Pentagon, consider rushing it with an Engineer. After that it is a straight shot Radio (Eiffel Tower and Rock and Roll) then Mass Media (Hollywood and UN). Then Fission (Manhattan Project), Plastics (3 Gorges Damn), Fiber Opitcs (Internet), Robotics (Space Elevator)
Lets not lose focus, that is still alot of shields to produce. I also think we should clean up the national wonders too, just so no one says, well "sure you got all the world wonders, but you didn't build any national wonders." I think we should shoot for most or all of them.
the save
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SG_Wonderboy_AD-1715.Civ4SavedGame
T1-Guangzhou Frigate->Hermitage some other stuff.
T2-Move Settler to the north, we got room there for a good city.
T3-Zzzz
T4 Hindu Madir started in Nanjing, I want to hold on to that second gems for the rest of the game for certain. Kolhapur founded right on the uranium, it was there or a grassland tile, I think this was best.
T5-Communism comes in. Electricity up next, when that finishes we should do Assembly line
T6-Hatty wants to trade Mil. Trad. for Astronomy, I do it, why not? Then I trade HC Astronomy for Corporation. Then I cancel our deal of stone for copper with Hatty, we need stone for Oxford and the Kremlin. I then get copper back for spices plus 13gpt. A rip off, cancel if you want, but to us it is chump change and copper is useful for building the Spaceship if it comes to that. Kremlin in 16. Rush Buy granary in new city-Kolhpar.
T7-Josehp Marie Jacquard Great Engineer born. I am tempted to rush Oxford Library. I think it should go in the Capital Delhi. Chop hits Kolhpar on a forge-so I rush buy the rest of it, I want to get a decent free specialist from the Statue of Liberty in this city as is just had a regular citizen specialist.
T8-Hatty requests that we cancel our Deals with the Mongols, I think about it and agree. I don't think that we should go Free Religion, health is really our problem and we have a +6 Modifier with Hatty and +4 with JC due to religion, we should switch when they do.
T9-Zzzz
T10-Move some workers. After Electricity go for Assembly line, we need the Pentagon, consider rushing it with an Engineer. After that it is a straight shot Radio (Eiffel Tower and Rock and Roll) then Mass Media (Hollywood and UN). Then Fission (Manhattan Project), Plastics (3 Gorges Damn), Fiber Opitcs (Internet), Robotics (Space Elevator)
Lets not lose focus, that is still alot of shields to produce. I also think we should clean up the national wonders too, just so no one says, well "sure you got all the world wonders, but you didn't build any national wonders." I think we should shoot for most or all of them.
the save
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SG_Wonderboy_AD-1715.Civ4SavedGame
Heh, I was too worried about doing something wrong, so I've kept checking them.
Oh and FWIW, you can have multiple DPs. It's just difficult to do normally, as you have to have multiple really happy happy friends. You only get a single negative "you've signed defensive pacts with our rivals" with those who you have not signed with.
Oh and FWIW, you can have multiple DPs. It's just difficult to do normally, as you have to have multiple really happy happy friends. You only get a single negative "you've signed defensive pacts with our rivals" with those who you have not signed with.
(0)-1715AD - OK... I've never been this friendly with JC before. Looking at the power graph, we're not near the top and neither are JC or Hatty. I think we stand a chance to get them both into a DP with us. I'm going to try it.
I dial up Hatty first and she says ok. I then dial up JC and he also says ok. Let's see what this means. Hopefully we can make this peaceful from here out, but we will still need to continually upgrade our military capability.
(1)-1718AD - Bangalore: Grenadier -> Rifleman for defenses.
Guangzhou: Hermitage -> Observatory
We need one more courthouse for the Forbidden Palace to be built. Actually in real life it's called the forbidden city... been there a few times... Polution is killing it...
Our workers are running out of things to do so I start them building roads anywhere that doesn't have one. Nothing else to do.
(2)-1721AD - Nothing.
I think we should build Wall Street in Delhi. It has the most lucrative shrine. That will be it's 2nd NW with the National Epic. I think Forbidden Palace in Bangalore and Oxford in Bombay as it has almost as many raw commerce as the capital.
We are only going to get one more GP in Delhi before it becomes too long between them. I think after we get that we should go Free Religion for the 10% research boost.
(3)-1724AD - Lahore: Frigate -> Observatory
(4)-1727AD - Bombay: Cavalry -> Oxford University
Madras: Frigate -> Observatory
(5)-1730AD - Electricity -> Replaceable Parts for Pentagon.
Calcutta: Frigate -> Scotland Yard. If we're going to build all the National Wonders it's got to somewhere and this seems as good as any. I guess we better think about the others like Ironworks, Red Cross and the mountain, whatever it's called.
(6)-1732AD - I cancel our Clam for Money deal with Alex. We've got a few unhealthy faces.
(7)-1734AD - Bangalore: Rifle -> Courthouse (to allow us to build the Forbidden Palace)
Got another Great Merchant. Now we've got 2 GM's, 2GE's and 1GA. What to do with them all?
I revolt straight to Free Religion as we don't need to try for any more GP's.
(8)-1736AD - Hatty starts a GA.
(9)-1738AD - Karachi: Aqueduct -> Forge (100% bonus hammers on production of this for us). I Q up a courthouse as well as Karachi needs one.
(10)-1740AD - JC's GA ends.
Diplomatically, Free Religion has hurt us with our DP allies but helped us with everyone else... We need to watch this. Is it worth sacrificing 10% research bonus to allow us to keep Hatty and JC in DPs? They may drop out of them if our relations drop low enough. My opinion is to not worry about it... We are more powerful than them and it benefits them alot to be in the DP as the others will think twice about attacking them.
The Save:
I dial up Hatty first and she says ok. I then dial up JC and he also says ok. Let's see what this means. Hopefully we can make this peaceful from here out, but we will still need to continually upgrade our military capability.
(1)-1718AD - Bangalore: Grenadier -> Rifleman for defenses.
Guangzhou: Hermitage -> Observatory
We need one more courthouse for the Forbidden Palace to be built. Actually in real life it's called the forbidden city... been there a few times... Polution is killing it...
Our workers are running out of things to do so I start them building roads anywhere that doesn't have one. Nothing else to do.
(2)-1721AD - Nothing.
I think we should build Wall Street in Delhi. It has the most lucrative shrine. That will be it's 2nd NW with the National Epic. I think Forbidden Palace in Bangalore and Oxford in Bombay as it has almost as many raw commerce as the capital.
We are only going to get one more GP in Delhi before it becomes too long between them. I think after we get that we should go Free Religion for the 10% research boost.
(3)-1724AD - Lahore: Frigate -> Observatory
(4)-1727AD - Bombay: Cavalry -> Oxford University
Madras: Frigate -> Observatory
(5)-1730AD - Electricity -> Replaceable Parts for Pentagon.
Calcutta: Frigate -> Scotland Yard. If we're going to build all the National Wonders it's got to somewhere and this seems as good as any. I guess we better think about the others like Ironworks, Red Cross and the mountain, whatever it's called.
(6)-1732AD - I cancel our Clam for Money deal with Alex. We've got a few unhealthy faces.
(7)-1734AD - Bangalore: Rifle -> Courthouse (to allow us to build the Forbidden Palace)
Got another Great Merchant. Now we've got 2 GM's, 2GE's and 1GA. What to do with them all?
I revolt straight to Free Religion as we don't need to try for any more GP's.
(8)-1736AD - Hatty starts a GA.
(9)-1738AD - Karachi: Aqueduct -> Forge (100% bonus hammers on production of this for us). I Q up a courthouse as well as Karachi needs one.
(10)-1740AD - JC's GA ends.
Diplomatically, Free Religion has hurt us with our DP allies but helped us with everyone else... We need to watch this. Is it worth sacrificing 10% research bonus to allow us to keep Hatty and JC in DPs? They may drop out of them if our relations drop low enough. My opinion is to not worry about it... We are more powerful than them and it benefits them alot to be in the DP as the others will think twice about attacking them.
The Save:
Sina
Warlord
Nicely done Kikinit. 
I think we are on the right way now and just keep going. If we don't neglect military, we should be all right.
I agree with you that we shouldn't worry about the DP's.
I think we are on the right way now and just keep going. If we don't neglect military, we should be all right.
I agree with you that we shouldn't worry about the DP's.
Hmmm Free Religion did hurt us with Hatty and JC. We may want to go back to Organized Religion for the +25% modifier for building buildings, especially since there are so many with the National Wonders too. 
that I forgot the variant rules. I do agree on getting rid of Pacifism though the stretch between Great People was too long.
The power graph there has me a bit concerned. Alex, Monty, HC are all much more powerful than us, true we no doubt have modern units, but we do not want them pillaging our cottages.
that I forgot the variant rules. I do agree on getting rid of Pacifism though the stretch between Great People was too long.The power graph there has me a bit concerned. Alex, Monty, HC are all much more powerful than us, true we no doubt have modern units, but we do not want them pillaging our cottages.
From my last pic, I notice Alex is pleased with us. I wonder if we could get him into a defensive pact too? It might not be possible because of his power I think but take a look anyway.
I agree with Atlas that we should throw in a few attacking type units like cavalry to help us protect the cottages if someone is silly enough to declare. We can get steel soon and build some cats to deal with any stacks that come our way.
I agree with Atlas that we should throw in a few attacking type units like cavalry to help us protect the cottages if someone is silly enough to declare. We can get steel soon and build some cats to deal with any stacks that come our way.
