NATO, Occupy and Chicago

[History_Buff]

That's very disheartening.

 

[Ironsided]

Why are you a liberal Downtown? Is it a career decision?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Well, one is a very domestic issue, and one is a very foreign policy issue. They're mostly separate.

As DT said, the movement that attracts the former also appeals to the latter. Few Americans upset about our domestic policies are going to be ignorant of our foreign ones.

I don't have any problem with people being anti-NATO, I just had never heard of any serious anti-NATO sentiment in the last 20 years. Plenty of people who think Afghanistan was a bad idea, but not anti-NATO.

Well 20 years ago, NATO hadn't really done anything except be a Soviet deterrent, so the only anti-NATO people were either isolationist or pro-Soviet. Since then there has been the interventions in Bosnia and Serbia/Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Libya. In addition, the Soviet Union is no longer existent, so many more are wondering what purpose NATO serves anymore.

 

[History_Buff]

As DT said, the movement that attracts the former also appeals to the latter. Few Americans upset about our domestic policies are going to be ignorant of our foreign ones.

That's fair enough I guess though, but NATO is, to me anyway, oh so trivial when compared to the crippling domestic issues faced by the US.

Well 20 years ago, NATO hadn't really done anything except be a Soviet deterrent, so the only anti-NATO people were either isolationist or pro-Soviet. Since then there has been the interventions in Bosnia and Serbia/Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Libya. In addition, the Soviet Union is no longer existent, so many more are wondering what purpose NATO serves anymore.

I'll grant you the whole 'lack of relevance' thing, but even with all those wars, I've not once seen dissenters frame their argument as anti-NATO. It's always 'this particular war is a bad idea', not 'this NATO thing certainly gets us into bad places'.

 

[downtown]

Why are you a liberal Downtown? Is it a career decision?

Because I believe that the free market doesn't solve everything, and in many specific cases, the state can have a positive role to helping to alleviate suffering and bring greater prosperity for all.

Plus, i'm a member of most liberal leaning interest groups in the US. I was a member of a union, and have closely worked with others. I used to be an inner city elementary school teacher. My mother is an immigrant from a latin american country (and I live in an immigrant neighborhood) I grew up in a blue-collar household. Really, the only non-liberalish thing I am is a Mormon.

I just think generally camping and shouting slogans is stupid. We know the legwork required to get change in this country. It isn't a mystery.

 

[Dreadnought]

For the people!

A horde of masked figures stormed the restaurant in a single-file line, wielding bats, claw hammers and metal batons — their presence announced when one shouted, “‘Hey, b****es, the ARA is going to f--- up this place.’ ”

With that, the shrouded thugs went on a rampage, clubbing diners at The Ashford House restaurant on May 19 in Tinley Park. They did not discriminate as to the targets of their violence, even pushing an 80-year-old woman to the ground, according to an eyewitness who’s a former Chicago police officer.

“Although the terrorist assault lasted only about a minute, it was the longest minute of my life,” the eyewitness said.

Authorities have said the attackers were targeting a group that believes in white supremacy and calls itself the Illinois European Heritage Association. At least 10 people were hurt during the attack, with three taken to a hospital for treatment.

Five Indiana men who prosecutors say are linked to the Anti-Racist Action Group remain in the Cook County Jail, charged with felony mob action, aggravated battery and criminal damage to property. They are John Tucker, 26, of Martinsville, Ind.; Cody Sutherlin, 23, and Alex Stuck, 22, both of Bloomington, Ind.; and Dylan Sutherlin, 20, and Jason Sutherlin, 33, both of Gosport, Ind. Two victims also were arrested on charges unrelated to the attack.

The Anti-Racist Action Group (ARA) is a “radical left-wing group” that often resorts to violent acts, said Mark Potok, a senior fellow at The Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit civil rights organization based in Montgomery, Ala. The attack, he said, “did more harm to the cause of fighting racism than almost anyone can imagine.”

* * *

“When I was fending them off, I realized my head was bleeding. And my hand was really hurting,” he said. “But when one of those guys said, ‘Don’t let him up,’ I ran across the room and hit him as hard as I could in the face with a chair.”

http://www.suntimes.com/news/127764...iolence-of-tinley-park-restaurant-attack.html

 

[Traitorfish]

Well that's stupid, but what does it have to do with anything?

 

[Dreadnought]

Well that's stupid, but what does it have to do with anything?

1) It occurred in Chicago.
2) It occurred during the same time.
3) It's violent.

Ergo.

 

[Traitorfish]

...Ergo what?

 

[Dreadnought]

...Ergo what?

I posted it, rather than make a new thread.

 

[Traitorfish]

So it doesn't have anything to do with anything?

 

[Dreadnought]

So it doesn't have anything to do with anything?

1) It occurred in Chicago.
2) It occurred during the same time.
3) It's violent.

Ergo.

 

[Traitorfish]

Lot of violent things happened in Chicago that weekend, but you don't feel the need to list every mugging, car-jacking and house-invasion. Why this?

 

[downtown]

Dude, Tinley Park is 30 miles outside of Chicago. It had nothing to do with NATO anythings.

 

[kochman]

I thought it was obvious, it's the anti-NATO protesters and the riot police during the protest. They met up at a burger joint or smthing.

A spider's gotta eat