Natural Wonders brainstorming

[Force44]

Question: When is a natural anomaly too small to qualify as a wonder?

I am thinking of this in regards to possible natural wonders that were sacrificed in the real world. For example the fresh water Dolphins in the Yangtze-river in China that went extinct after the construction of the Three Gorges Dam. (The loss of nature and culture was a big concern before and during construction but nature and culture were ultimatel sacrificed for the perceived benefits in economy and security)

A similar thing (albeit on a much smaller scale) happened in the Netherlands with the construction of the Zuiderzeeworks (which changed a salt inland sea into a freshwater lake). This project could have been (but wasn't due to econic restrictions) extended further into the Waddenzee, which by now is the nations least small (no big things fit in a country as small as the Netherlands) nature preserve.

 

[Leoreth]

Thinking some more about Great Explorers. I think it works well both ways to tie them into colonial expansion more. Everyone (even players, but especially AIs) need more help and impetus to colonise, and historically exploration and colonialism often went hand in hand, so it makes sense. We already had the idea that they could boost colonial cities, but besides that:
- they could just move into a Native city and immediately flip it to you
- instead of requiring the Trading Company building, they could be what starts the Trading Company conqueror event. I already wanted to generalise this ability to all civs that have historical overseas territory and this could help with that
- they could call a special Congress where civs could only claim to acquire or found cities in colonial areas that happens outside of the usual congress intervals

Lastly, I would also like to change colony maintenance at some point. Overseas city below a certain amount of population and/or development (like buildings) could be treated as "colonies", which do not cost distance maintenance but instead colony maintenance. Colony maintenance exists as a mechanic in BtS, where it is incurred by having overseas vassals (this is already disabled by RFC), but it could be easily retooled to a city based maintenance that does not scale with distance, making far flung colonial empires more sustainable.

In such a context, I could also let Great Explorers build Colonial Administrations, that work like Administrative Centers but instead lower surrounding colony maintenance.

 

[Cacaso]

the unit expeditionary (explorer update) could be related to a safari mechanic, so that the Civilizations could send their expeditionaries to regions not yet colonized as sub-Saharan Africa, Amazon, outback, Siberia / Greenland / North of Canada, to try to hunt animals like rhinoceros, jaguar, alligator, leopard, polar bear, elk (invisible and that do not attack other units besides the expeditionary), for each type of animal that he managed to capture would win a promotion that if he returned to a city with national wonder " National Zoo "would fill the slots of animals by earning bonuses like happiness, culture, one time GPP and generating unhappiness in other civs back in the race for NW exploration and zoo" We envy the _______ for advancing more in exploration "(that would be a way to avoid excess happiness, except for one, all civs with the technology required to build the national zoo would be suffering 1, 2 or 3 of unhappiness because of exploration). This mechanic would be interesting with the NW, so that the expeditionaries would have something to do while trying to locate the NW, they are not just walking around the map. For each animal capture, the civ earns one (or two) more points for the Great Explorer count.

Other animals like zebra, giraffe, hippopotamus, buffalo, kangaroo ... could enter these zoo animals too.

 

[Steb]

I'm reviving this thread because after documenting current and proposed wonders, it felt right to add a tab to the spreadsheet to keep track of natural wonder suggestions.

I have made a list of (hopefully) every suggestion in this thread. I also gave each entry a type (e.g. Hot spring, Mountain, etc.), a region (e.g. North America) and a more precise location (e.g. Wyoming). Then there are other columns that I partially filled: civilizations associated with discovery and further exploration, discovery and exploration dates, and techs/conditions to match the mechanisms proposed by Leoreth in this post.

Feel free to fill the missing info or add new suggestions.

 

[freethink]

This reminds me of an idea I had a few days ago that a 'Scientist' unit should be in the game as a late exploration unit. It could discover previously hidden natural wonders, climb mountains and find hidden ocean features (or that could be a separate unit). In any sense, I think the 20th-century environmentalist movement and the natural sciences could be simulated with the new unit/natural wonders combined. Also, a University would be required to train the new unit.

 

[Steb]

This reminds me of an idea I had a few days ago that a 'Scientist' unit should be in the game as a late exploration unit. It could discover previously hidden natural wonders, climb mountains and find hidden ocean features (or that could be a separate unit). In any sense, I think the 20th-century environmentalist movement and the natural sciences could be simulated with the new unit/natural wonders combined. Also, a University would be required to train the new unit.

Look earlier in this thread for discussion around modern explorers and Great Explorers!

 

[Dracosolon]

Would it make sense to have generic graphics for certain categories like volcanoes, at least as placeholders? I'm doubtful that graphics can be found for every individual wonder.

 

[freethink]

Would it make sense to have generic graphics for certain categories like volcanoes, at least as placeholders? I'm doubtful that graphics can be found for every individual wonder.

I have found graphics for about 20 natural wonders, and Stonehenge comes with the game. As for the others, I am not sure where they would be. The main pitfall with placeholders I think is that they could get a bit repetitive.

I am not sure if 20 wonders would be enough for the new map, but making more will mean taking graphics from other assets and turning them into natural wonders. I have no idea how to make civ graphics. Does anyone have a graphics editor program that can be used for this?

 

[merijn_v1]

I am not sure if 20 wonders would be enough for the new map, but making more will mean taking graphics from other assets and turning them into natural wonders. I have no idea how to make civ graphics. Does anyone have a graphics editor program that can be used for this?

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-art-from-scratch-to-ingame-buildings.634177/

All static model can be made the same way, including natural wonders.

 

[Steb]

I have found graphics for about 20 natural wonders, and Stonehenge comes with the game. As for the others, I am not sure where they would be. The main pitfall with placeholders I think is that they could get a bit repetitive.

I am not sure if 20 wonders would be enough for the new map, but making more will mean taking graphics from other assets and turning them into natural wonders. I have no idea how to make civ graphics. Does anyone have a graphics editor program that can be used for this?

As merijn said, it's possible to create some new models, though you're right that it would be a lot of work to make them for the 100+ wonders included in the list so far.

On the bright side, some wonders don't need elaborate graphics. Caves, fossil sites etc. would be mostly invisible on the map. Others can probably be created by tweaking the parameters of existing graphics: enlarge the trees of a forest to make a redwood forest, for instance, or change the color of a mountain to make a different mountain.

A bigger concern is wonders that would need to be dynamic and not static in order to look good, like geysers.

 

[merijn_v1]

It is possible to create dynamic models as well. Unfortunately I currently don't know how. But others in the community might know that.

 

[merijn_v1]

@Steb Could you add the link to the spreadsheet in the opening post? That makes it a little easier to find.

 

[Steb]

@Steb Could you add the link to the spreadsheet in the opening post? That makes it a little easier to find.

Good call, added to the beginning of the first post

 

[Dracosolon]

Took the liberty of making a spreadsheet for Great Explorer names:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bclkn7nbDacKwco7vYGyi4zmZ5N9RnSMDfnpMxB7GgY/edit

 

[Steb]

Took the liberty of making a spreadsheet for Great Explorer names:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bclkn7nbDacKwco7vYGyi4zmZ5N9RnSMDfnpMxB7GgY/edit

Nice! I suggest adding a column to keep track of Great Explorers that are already in the game as some other type. For example Christopher Columbus is already included as a Spanish Great Merchant.

 

[Dracosolon]

Good idea, done.

The spreadsheet should be free of access so any contribution is welcome.

 

[brett0007]

Should there be a late game Explorer unit? What would it be?

Survey/scientific expeditions, we still actively study and monitor many of the suggested wonders, I'm imagining something like the random events, where you station a team as say the great barrier reef and have a chance to get an event like "new shark species discovered" +100 , or +1 in marine reserves in the wonder. It could even different events per era so an industrial era surveyor can discover a new element at a volcano.

 

[psyblade]

the unit expeditionary (explorer update) could be related to a safari mechanic, so that the Civilizations could send their expeditionaries to regions not yet colonized as sub-Saharan Africa, Amazon, outback, Siberia / Greenland / North of Canada, to try to hunt animals like rhinoceros, jaguar, alligator, leopard, polar bear, elk (invisible and that do not attack other units besides the expeditionary), for each type of animal that he managed to capture would win a promotion that if he returned to a city with national wonder " National Zoo "would fill the slots of animals by earning bonuses like happiness, culture, one time GPP and generating unhappiness in other civs back in the race for NW exploration and zoo" We envy the _______ for advancing more in exploration "(that would be a way to avoid excess happiness, except for one, all civs with the technology required to build the national zoo would be suffering 1, 2 or 3 of unhappiness because of exploration). This mechanic would be interesting with the NW, so that the expeditionaries would have something to do while trying to locate the NW, they are not just walking around the map. For each animal capture, the civ earns one (or two) more points for the Great Explorer count.

Other animals like zebra, giraffe, hippopotamus, buffalo, kangaroo ... could enter these zoo animals too.

I remember Fall from Heaven and its offshoots having a similar structure, where the scout-hunter line would be able to get a ‘animal hunter’ promotion. That would give a bonus to damage vs animals, and can be captured; captured animals can consumed to make buildings (lion’s cage/tiger’s cage, etc).
The AI could also use this mechanic, but rarely deliberately sought out animals it was lacking.

 

[BigSchwartzzz]

I have an idea for wonders, but it makes the games more dynamic and luck based, which i personally prefer. Dynamic locations for wonders, but within limited geographic boundaries. I suppose this feature could be toggled on or off though.

So an example, Mount Sinai. Must be in either Egypt, Ethiopia, or the middle east up until the Indus river. If it's within your city cross that city will have a 50% multiplier on tech costs for techs that found religions. It also gives you double production speed for missionaries.

Rock of Gibraltar. Must be in Europe. Any unit built in a city adjacent to Gibraltar will automatically start each unit with a free City Defense promotion.

Stone Forest: Must be east of the Indus river. Any city in its radius will have a plus 5 culture.

But also wonders with negative affects, which would lead to maybe not settling in otherwise good locations.

San Andreas Fault: Anywhere on the Pacific coast of North America. Discovered by labor unions technology. Any city built here will periodically lose 1 to 2 population as a random event.

Stuff like that.

 

[Dracosolon]

Random suggestion: since the number of unexplored natural wonders would dwindle in the modern era, maybe there could be a Space Centre building that, in addition to its own effect (maybe , spaceship ?) could be used by Explorers the same as a natural wonder.

e: Or it could just be the current Spaceport national wonder.