Naval Units Rework Project

[Hydromancerx]

So pollution from those vehicles? Will we be adding pollution to other vehicles like aircraft or tanks?

 

[Thunderbrd]

So pollution from those vehicles? Will we be adding pollution to other vehicles like aircraft or tanks?

I was hoping to. A small amount anyhow. As a unit review backbone I was hoping to establish some precedences here with these. Glad you took a moment to notice that arrangement so it could be discussed. I think it worked out pretty well to have the review on this page come up in the week so it was all I could update in one evening and could thus get a little more individual attention since there's debatability on that matter. I based the amount on what I figured the pollution outputs would be based on engine and size. If it pushes the pollution output on maps too hard we can always increase the pollution thresholds to reach the next autobuilding.

 

[Hydromancerx]

What about mounted units? I know know about you but the methane output from an army of Horses or Elephants must be up there. *pew!*

Also how will group size play into this? Such a small squad vs a huge horde of units?

 

[Thunderbrd]

What about mounted units? I know know about you but the methane output from an army of Horses or Elephants must be up there. *pew!*

Also how will group size play into this? Such a small squad vs a huge horde of units?

I've based the amount it gives on the base size and group size of the unit. I don't have any ability to reduce or increase based on splitting/merging. That MAY be a good argument to not have pollution from units... if that's what you're going for. We'd have to do something very tricky indeed to work out a way to increase or reduce pollution based on group size adjustments.

As for the Mounted... I suppose if you wanted to it could be a matter of 1 Air pollution. I'm kinda thinking they wouldn't make THAT big of an impact unless a very large horde.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Does anyone know where there's a good guide to adding tech quotes? I'm finding I can't locate the files that the xml is calling for and there's the suggestion that they are compressed somehow but I'm not seeing any files that suggest they represent that compression...

So this tells me I've got a bit to learn regarding setting up to put tech quotes in place.

 

[Arakhor]

I know that CivTechInfos.xml in XML/Technologies and both AudioDefines.xml and Audio2D.xml in XML/Audio are used for the sound files, but I imagine that to add a quote in the first place, you'd need CivTechInfos.xml primarily.

Otherwise, send Vokarya a PM. I'm fairly sure he knows how to do so.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think I got this... I found some good info on a couple of threads here including this one:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=479834

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Hydro:
I was reviewing the attempt to rename Synthetic Sentience and given its description it seems to still fit despite the paradox you pointed at. Synthetic Sentience is really all about making robotics appear and act more human - not about making them think for themselves. It's about the materials and programmed behaviors.

In short, this would be the Automated level of Android introduced here - and perhaps a new name could reflect that in itself. Replica Robotics, Humanized Robotics, or Replicants perhaps. For now I'll leave the name unchanged unless you like that suggestion or have another.

I would have to define Droids and Androids as being above this level on the basis of simply having much more advanced, self-adapting programming - to the point where they themselves may well believe themselves really alive. Of course we know it's only once they reach the Sentroid point that they actually do have a will of their own, even if not a cognizant one, which they obtain in full at Sapientroids.


Also, Sonic Telekinesis has found a more appropriate naming: Acoustophoresis. This term (somewhat synonymous with Acoustic Levitation but I think meaning more exactly what I was going for here) I discovered on wikipedia helps to differentiate it from some kind of Psionic ability.


EDIT: Just an FYI, I've done all the XML work for every tech modification through the Transhuman. Just need to finish up the Galactic and do the quotes and get Whisperr's buttons in (she's working on the new tech buttons now) and I'll have all tech modifications mentioned here completed. Then I'll get on the Naval Combatant and the other new Combat Classes - at least defining them. Then return to my stat charts here and wrap that up. From there we'll have to make sure all unit arts are finalized and we'll be in the clear.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Hydro: So... you've made me double think the whole idea of pollution on units... where do you actually stand on the matter? Given the inability to manipulate that amount based on the group size?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydro: So... you've made me double think the whole idea of pollution on units... where do you actually stand on the matter? Given the inability to manipulate that amount based on the group size?

I don't think we should add pollutions to units. Not just because we cannot have it scale with the density of units but because of how it related to city pollution. I do think its a neat idea, I just do not think it can be properly represented in C2C.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Fair 'nuff.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Ok, I've completed the Visibility/Invisibility data sheet (again). This one has the updates on all the new types of invisibility.

There's some tricky stuff in there, like differing unit types being the primary detector of a given sort of invisibility, or the odd invisibility type that favors the larger ships rather than the smaller ones (though all invisibility types generally favor Subs and Pirates.)

It's a little tough to follow unless you look directly at a given invisibility type at a time. While many invisibility types become pretty much entirely obsolete to the rest of the naval units, this may not always be the case for other land and air units. There will certainly need to be further unit reviewing on that matter as time goes on here. Particularly when naval units start gliding over the land as well as the sea.


Note: The techs are 98% completed... just 2 more small steps here and they should be on the SVN, possibly within the next few hrs.

Having done the techs and this last data sheet update, I'll be working on getting the new unitcombats in place - including updating ALL (applicable) naval units to NAVAL_COMBATANT. From this point, until we get the admiral in place, the navies will be a bit underpowered as normal General XP won't be given to them. So I'm doing this now because I'm told within the next week or so we'll have our Admiral.

 

[Azurian]

Synthetic Sentience is complicated, but its about programming realistic virtual life.

http://www.historianofthefuture.com/sentient.html

http://project.cyberpunk.ru/idb/synthetic_sentience.html

@Hydro:
I was reviewing the attempt to rename Synthetic Sentience and given its description it seems to still fit despite the paradox you pointed at. Synthetic Sentience is really all about making robotics appear and act more human - not about making them think for themselves. It's about the materials and programmed behaviors.

In short, this would be the Automated level of Android introduced here - and perhaps a new name could reflect that in itself. Replica Robotics, Humanized Robotics, or Replicants perhaps. For now I'll leave the name unchanged unless you like that suggestion or have another.

I would have to define Droids and Androids as being above this level on the basis of simply having much more advanced, self-adapting programming - to the point where they themselves may well believe themselves really alive. Of course we know it's only once they reach the Sentroid point that they actually do have a will of their own, even if not a cognizant one, which they obtain in full at Sapientroids.


Also, Sonic Telekinesis has found a more appropriate naming: Acoustophoresis. This term (somewhat synonymous with Acoustic Levitation but I think meaning more exactly what I was going for here) I discovered on wikipedia helps to differentiate it from some kind of Psionic ability.


EDIT: Just an FYI, I've done all the XML work for every tech modification through the Transhuman. Just need to finish up the Galactic and do the quotes and get Whisperr's buttons in (she's working on the new tech buttons now) and I'll have all tech modifications mentioned here completed. Then I'll get on the Naval Combatant and the other new Combat Classes - at least defining them. Then return to my stat charts here and wrap that up. From there we'll have to make sure all unit arts are finalized and we'll be in the clear.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Synthetic Sentience is complicated, but its about programming realistic virtual life.

http://www.historianofthefuture.com/sentient.html

http://project.cyberpunk.ru/idb/synthetic_sentience.html

Yes, but NOT about actual self aware robotics. Since we came up with the term 'Sentroid' for a sentient robot, it could produce some confusion between Synthetic Sentience and Sentroids. However, I've left Synthetic Sentience alone because it's about truly imitation life replication, not about true self sentience. I'm just aware that some players traversing the tech tree might get a little confused by the difference.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Sparth:
I'm requesting a little teamwork here. I could do this part but I think you'd probably do it better and with more efficiency.

I'm adding all the new unitcombats to the svn here in just a moment. I've not done art for them. I added them all at the bottom of the unitcombatinfos.xml file and gave them the art tag:
Art/Interface/Buttons/units/sparth/categories/nuclear_ships.dds as a filler for now.

Some of them may be among those you've allowed to remain generic and would thus only need to have that generic art applied. Others could be something you might want to make a new one for. Anyhow, let me know if you can't do this for us and I'll take the time out to get them done but I figured you might want to have a go at 'em.

Thanks!

 

[Sparth]

TB, add filler buttons for them. Ill try add correct buttons for them ASAP. Great Admiral and GA Specialist buttons are ready but I forgot to send them to my home computer from work PC

Edit: Ok Started working on these buttons. But take a while until they will be done. Week or some. Its too many of them for one day

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, it's not too time critical so by all means take your time. Thanks for your help!

@Hydro: One thing I wanted to note here since it deviated from our original plan, the laser batter defensive building was simply moved to Photon Thermodynamics for now. We'll have to eventually go through all those defensive buildings and plot them out with all the available defensive tags (we're not ready quite yet there since not all the tags are quite ready yet) but for now that works.

 

[Harrier]

Yes, but NOT about actual self aware robotics. Since we came up with the term 'Sentroid' for a sentient robot, it could produce some confusion between Synthetic Sentience and Sentroids. However, I've left Synthetic Sentience alone because it's about truly imitation life replication, not about true self sentience. I'm just aware that some players traversing the tech tree might get a little confused by the difference.

I would not worry about it. Except for all the younger players (who are used to more modern space age games etc. ) . A lot of players will be confused anyway. .

I am - just reading your above post. Bring back the Abacus.

 

[Thunderbrd]

lol

Ok, so I've completed the miscellaneous Bools Datasheet.

One interesting item of note... the Swarm Ships differ between AI and Human more than any other ship line does - the AI versions are suicidal (but will be more powerful when they do attack as a result of course.) They basically are there to ram and detonate into enemy ships.

EDIT: And the Upgrade Paths Data Sheet is complete.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydro: One thing I wanted to note here since it deviated from our original plan, the laser batter defensive building was simply moved to Photon Thermodynamics for now. We'll have to eventually go through all those defensive buildings and plot them out with all the available defensive tags (we're not ready quite yet there since not all the tags are quite ready yet) but for now that works.

Yeah I was expecting we would when we had the discussion about it before.