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NC CIV: Genghis Khan

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Herodotus Rex, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. KaytieKat

    KaytieKat King

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    999
    Hi

    noble diff, normal speed, no huts or events, 500 AD

    Spoiler :
    It most likely took way longer than I should have but once I got a stack of 10 keshiks together:



    It was time to send the boys over to say hi to Asok :)

    The war went pretty fast. Last city was taken out before first city went out of revolt.

    while all the was going on alpha got teched and then currency then code of laws.

    I also did some of this:



    I feel a lil hypicritical now cuz in recent thread from someone brand new to noble diff I mentioned how going str8 to alpha and expecting to get much use from it wont work as well as on the higher diffs since by time u get alpha the ai will have nothing to trade. I guess this is a bit of an exception tho since lil side trips to archery and hbr prolly gave the ai's to do a lil more teching on their own.

    Anyways once Asok killed off I gathered up all the my kehsiks and soon as everybody wa shealed:



    It was hammy's turn and I have taken a cpl of his cities now including his capitol and thats where I am at at this point.

    My empire atm:


    Starting to get a lil bigger but now with code of laws, currency and and alpha all done I think I am pretty equipped to hanlde a largish empire so Im not planning on raising cities as much from now on.

    The tech sitch:



    I whored around alpha, currecy and code for all I could for some backfills and stuff like IW and monarchy. So I am not too far behind after hitting borderline economy crash so early.

    diplo sitch:



    Every body hates Wang and not me so thats good at least :) Well almost everybody hammi seems to be a bit ticked at me but I am sure we'll work things out once he's all dead :)

    Demographics:



    Managed to get leads in the important categories now its just matter of seeing if I can
    keep em :)

    And thats about it at this point. Im teching machinery to try for great engineer. Hopefully one will pop in city where I built mids. To bulb machinery while working up to fuedalism and then knights.

    after Hammi is dead things might get tricky tho. Giggles is in wehoorn and targetting (I HOPE) wang and not me. So he busy at the moment. I dont want to wipe out Wang since that would mean I would most likely be next on the everybody hate at once list. And as long as giggles is in wehoorn he and his lil protective self can wait. So that leaves brennus and nappy. Unfortunately who ever I attack it very likely that one will bribe the other into war so I need to do something about that.

    Brennus looks he would be easier and quicker target so my plan is to eitther bribe nappy into war on wang so so he cant dow on me or to try and build a jewish missionary (I actually founded judaism when I teched Code.) and hope he will switch and get nappy ticked enough that he will dilike bren enough not to be bribed but that might be unlikely since I dont think nappy hands out all that big a diplo hit for wrong religion. at least not enough to drop from pleased with brennus.

    But anyways that is plan at this point. Attack brennus afetr I am done with hammi. Hope I can arange it so nappy wont get bribed into it and then try and get feudalism teched by time I am done with brennus then start capping the remaining AI's.

    Dont know how that will go so wish me luck :)
    Kaytie

    @BornInCant yeah I probably road to much I just have this habbit of if worker is gonna do anything on a tile like chop or or built a cottage or something I want him to road it to just so I dont want him having to come back and do it later. I also like roads on all hills and stuff to make it easier to get to barbies and stuff. I DID try to avoid roading for a lil bit however it got annoying just cuz a few times I forgot to road up in a cpl places where I still wanted to so I went back to usual if worker needs to be there he might as well road it while he at that spot so who wont need to comeback netime soon--Im lazy that way :p

    @pigswill

    Spoiler :
    yeah if this were marathon especially with copper in bfc frist 4 cities for me most likely would have been my cap, asok's cap, hammi's cap and brennus' capitols. at witch it just means getting out of econmy mess that many farflung cities would cause at that point but once it happended last 3 wouldnt have a chance. Copper in capitols bfc on noble/marathon means all your neighbors just died--they just havent been informed yet hehe.
     
  2. GGS

    GGS Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    212
    Monarch/Normal. Huts&Events. Opening thoughts.

    As I recall Genghis Khan has a stunning capacity to run out of money long before he runs out of enemies. SiP as the best long-term cash option, open with agriculture, AH. As far as notions go - build just four decent cities, put some reasonable priority on currency and then unleash the Keshiks.
     
  3. Pengu

    Pengu Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    428
    Spoiler :
    Well, even if not on PH moving 2 east and 1 north gives you an insane capitol.
    corn+pig+gold+horse+bronze and you get 1 foodplain.
     
  4. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Joined:
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    berkshire, england
    @KaytieKat.
    Spoiler :
    If you're going for noble marathon kill conquest I don't see the value of keeping enemy cities unless they can produce units to contribute to the rush. Burn 'em all.
    Also even with copper in bfc its possibly still faster to go for mounted units if you have horses close by. HbR is not too expensive when you're running 100% research on stolen gold.
     
  5. KaytieKat

    KaytieKat King

    Joined:
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    Hi

    @pigswill but capitols can be such pretty cites :p

    Kaytie
     
  6. deep64blue

    deep64blue Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    2320 BC - Noble - Huts & Events

    Spoiler :
    Settled 1N for the food.

    AG -> AH -> Min -> Myst -> BW -> HR

    Orders:-
    Worker -> Warrior -> Settler -> Warrior -> Settler

    Settled on the Desert spot South of the Horses, building a Monument to pop the Borders.

    Goody huts produced a map showing Babylon to the North and two more Scouts. Two exploring and one on fog busting duty.

    Now got to consider where the 2nd Settler goes - yellow dot or blue, leaning towards yellow.


     
  7. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
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    22,105
    These map edits are starting to turn Nobles Club into a farce. It's gotta stop. I have no interest in this game.
     
  8. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    @deep64blue:

    Spoiler :
    Your second city is sort of a mess; it gets the horses and the gold, but it's got no food, and the horses aren't available without a border pop. Karakorum will get them when it pops its borders, but you could've had them and used them much, much sooner.

    Why haven't you improved Karakorum's other corn yet? Food is a high priority. You might even look to feed another city off of your capital's food, at least in the short-term.

    Those are my thoughts. :)
     
  9. Smilingrogue

    Smilingrogue Raging Barbarian

    Joined:
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    On a trade mission
    @ Deep64blue

    As an addendum to what The Oz-man said
    Spoiler :
    Don't settle on flood plains if you can avoid it. Especially if the Flood plain is the only one in the city's BFC. That is a three food 1 commerce tile with potential to become 5 food 1 commerce (Farm + Biology) or three food and a tonne of commerce with right Civic combo and techs (Free Speech + Printing Press, add a dash of Financial for even more fun.


    @ Lymond.

    I am on the fence. On one hand, I am not willing to be harsh about map edits to make the game easier as this is a series aimed at newer players who are still learning the game. I still remember my days on Warlord difficulty and how overwhelming it all was.

    On the other, I do quite well on Sons of Monarchy maps, struggle on Lonely Hearts maps and absolutely crush Nobles' Club maps. So it may be better to aim for more balance so the players get to form a true judgement of their own skill and not move up difficulties based on these maps, only to find they are not yet ready.

    On this map:
    Spoiler :
    I would have loved to see the Horses removed and the Incense replaced by Ivory to balance the deleted hills for AIs. We have BFC copper, so barb defence is handled. Giving us War Eles will still make use of the Ger and allow for more tactical approach, like deciding how many cities to settle before starting the rush, whether to bee-line construction or get something else to use as trade-bait, etc. Now, it was just capture horse, build ger, Chop trees, ???? , profit!! :lol:
     
  10. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Dayton, Ohio
    I do agree about getting rid of the hill capitals, for the record. Keshiks can get the job done, especially since...

    Spoiler :
    ...none of the early rush targets on this map (Asoka, Hammurabi, or Brennus) are Protective. I suppose Brennus and his Duns could give a player some trouble, but learning to deal with complications like that should be part of the Noble's Club experience.


    Out of all the edits, though, the one that struck me as cheesiest was a river...

    Spoiler :
    ...the weird, clearly edited river to the east.


    The player already had a lot of help on this map--Keshiks do particularly well in forested areas since they ignore terrain--so I'm not sure if all of the river help was necessary.

    Again, I appreciate the map and I did enjoy it; these are just some things to keep in mind for next time. A map can demonstrate the power of the UU without tilting things too heavily in the player's favor. :)
     
  11. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    Nopes ofc it's no offense against map makers, who spend time setting games up.
    Just a reminder that we are only cheating ourselves, with so many good infos around here there are much better ways of learning, other than cheesy maps ~~
     
  12. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

    Joined:
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    Terra
    I'm enjoying the map. Hills probably shouldn't have been removed... but then who am I to complain? A totally random mapscript will throw out a triple gem start every once in a while, and that's much more broken than this. Plus, I appreciate any mapmaker who gets me to try out a new script :D

    Still playing my game, and although I don't think this spoils anything, just in case:

    Spoiler :
    What are peoples' thoughts on entering Vassalage before their Keshik or Cuirassier rush? Barracks + Ger + Vassalage + Theocracy = 11 XP, in all cities, before the flood of GGs starts coming in. Nobody ever enters vassalage, but here it seems quite strong.
     
  13. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Dayton, Ohio
    Doshin, the problem with that is that a Keshik rush can be very time-sensitive. Doing a Feudalism beeline after getting them almost assures that you're going to miss Currency and Code of Laws, which Genghis really needs to be at all effective beyond the very short-term. If you wait until after you grab the economic techs to start building your army, you're likely going to start running into Longbows. If you want to roflstomp with Keshiks, you almost certainly can't wait until Feudalism, I think.

    That said, I almost always run it in the late game with Genghis when I'm running Cuirs and Cavs all over the place (particularly if I've ignored Theology). It's very powerful, but Genghis seems to need economic techs in the short-term.
     
  14. Smilingrogue

    Smilingrogue Raging Barbarian

    Joined:
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    Monarch, Normal Speed, No Huts, No events. Conquest in 1800 AD. Continued from the first report

    Spoiler :

    After peace, I settled a couple more cities to round out my starting area. Declared on Hammurabi in 50 AD with two forces of Keshiks attacking from South East and South West. Took four of his cities including the Great Wall, Stonehenge and Oracle and took peace in 275 AD. Went back for more in 520 AD, took one of Hammy's four cities, razed the rest and knocked him out of the game 560 AD.

    My economy was in shambles and had I not gathered gold from pillaging, I would have been on strike at this point. So naturally, I told Napoleon to get off my lawn when he came in with a gold demand. He went into WHEOHRN mode immediately. I had a ton of Keshiks just burning a hole in my pocket at this point, so I decided to move them to Eastern borders and wait for him. This is where I got lazy and stupid. I completely forgot the map wraps around and that Nappy can reach me over the Arctic ice land bridge from the West!

    Popped the Music's Great Artist in 740 AD, started a Golden Age and switched into Hereditary Rule, Bureaucracy, Caste and Organised Religion. (Can I get some advise on this one? I tend to put off changing Civics unless I absolutely need them when I know I will get the Music GA. Is this a good idea, or is it better to just take the two turns of anarchy for civic swaps sooner?)

    980 AD. Nappy declares. Keshiks on Eastern front start moving on Nappy's lands. I bribe Brennus into the affair. War starts off well for me with me taking one of Nappy's cities. But as I said, I completely forgot about the wrap around and lost one of my Babylonian conquests to a spear who won at 7% odds against my Longbow. Brennus was right on the Spear's tail and immediately took the city off him one turn before my axe could get there. :sad:

    And the User Errors kept piling up as I kept the city I took from Nappy. I should have just burned it. It started tanking my economy, so I gifted it to Gilgamesh through gritted teeth. Razed two of Nappy's cities, took peace when he finally talked again.

    And more sleeping at the wheel from me as I nabbed the Great Library! :goodjob: Only to realise it would have been far better in a different city that was already running scientists and would get the National Epic later. :smoke:

    Despite me playing like a bumbling idiot, I was still the tech leader by a massive margin and bulbed/teched education in 1160 AD. The tech pace was awfully slow and I had to research everything myself while Genghis seemed to be only interested in tanking my economy. :lol:

    Since the wonders were almost all still on the table, I decided to go for what I have come to call the 'Oz-man' maneuver. Built the Mausoleum of Mausolus and Taj Mahal shortly after and ran a couple of golden ages. (I call it as such, since the Oz-man seems to do it in every single game of his :p)

    Won a late Liberalism in 1500 AD, took Military Tradition with it. Had a bunch of Keshiks built up, a GM popped shortly after and used the trade mission to upgrade them to Cuirs. Wang was the first target. He capped after I burned two of his cities. Asoka had peace vassaled to Gilgamesh by this point and had two cities. Promptly burned his cities and took him out. Gilgamesh was a long brawl with him sending stacks of outdated troops at me and me chasing them down with Cuirs and killing them while the main Cuir army rolled through his lands. No hostages were taken and every city was burned on capture until he agreed to capitulate.

    Kept the army rolling right through and hit Brennus next. He was at war with Nappy thanks to chicanery by me. Raze and move was again applied liberally until he capitulated. Nappy was given the same treatment, vassalised in 1795. Conquest won in 1800. When all was said and done, I razed 29 cities. Genghis Khan would be proud. :D

    Overall, I could have done far better. I should have settled more cities, thought things through better and finished Asoka off much sooner.


    Thanks a lot Heredotus Rex! It was fun and since I messed up so much, I hope I learnt stuff I won't forget soon. :)
     
  15. Herodotus Rex

    Herodotus Rex Chieftain

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    Location:
    CA
    Hey all, sorry if this map was a bit easy/over edited.

    I guess I'm finding it a bit difficult to judge how easy or hard a map will be/should be for most players. I am not a Noble level player anymore so when I test it, it can be a little hard to tell, especially just from looking/not playing. I tested the Gilgamesh level on Imm and didn't have a hard time, but then I watched AZ get killed on Deity and decided to make this one easier...

    I am also not sure how much to edit maps. I based this one more off of this heavily edited Monty game. I was going for a flattened, forested world. I was using NC maps to show off a certain leader's units/skills (why we always give key strat resources in the first/second city) but it seems I might have gone too far with this one ;) Personally I would like a non-traditional map every once in a while but maybe I'm in the minority... and if people would rather have more realistic maps, I'm fine with that.

    Anyway, thanks for the input - always welcome, especially as this is only my second attempt. I guess I am hearing different things (GKey/fresh water - I never thought of NC needing that but... what do I know?!) If you have opinions about the way maps should be focused drop by here for dalamb's thread on where we are going with NC. I want a little direction, so as to make maps that people want to play!

    Thanks,
    Joel
     
  16. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    What i think is okay: Adding food to poor maps, so we have city spots.
    Not everywhere, but some good ones. Few bad land parts are realistic.
    Adding some resources, if we have no happy stuff or if you give us horsies/copper and similar
    Balancing our amount of land compared with what AIs have.

    What i dun like: perfection, so we can see at first glance where you helped..for example rivers, they are very easily spotted if they have unnatural endings. Or if they make tiles like corn and wheat better everywhere ;)
    Adjusting land towards 1 expected strategy too much, like removing hills or adding many forests.
     
  17. KaytieKat

    KaytieKat King

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
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    999
    Hi

    Noble diff, norm speed, no huts no events, 1370 ad, last ride of the keshiks


    Spoiler :
    Well I was worried I was too slow in getting keshiks done but I managed to kill asok hammi and bren. Luckily Giggles and nappy were too busy picking on wang to bother me.

    After I killed off brennus I decided to back stab Giggles. I felt time was pressing at this point cuz I had discovered feudalism and giggles was getting close and longbows would have meant end of keshik romp.

    I dow'ed on him and took two cities and he was rdy to cap. So I let him surrender and gave him back his cites so I wouldnt have to mes em.

    Then it was wangs turn. same delio I took two cities and he was rdy to cap and I let him and gave him back his capitol. Then Nappy stands alone. Unfortunately my stack was way way far away from nappy's cities and by time I get to his borders he has long bows and working to castles.

    But I decided:



    One last ride of the mongul horde :)

    My empire at this point:



    demos:



    I still leading just throuh sheer land abuse. My economy been scraping by pretty much whole game.

    tech sitch


    Im behind a lil in lib race but HOPEFULLY lib wont be an issue.

    vic conditions:



    no one else is close to any kind of victory so if I can cap nappy I win. My plan is to take a city near my borders with my keshiks and hope they can even if it guraded by long bows and then upgrade some of em to knights and then just start taking nappy's cities until he caps and I win. Thats the plan for now wish me luck :)
    Kaytie
     
  18. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Disinterested Observer Moderator

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    Agreed. After playing a while, the map appears to be very skewed for an easy victory. I won far too easily at Prince...
    Spoiler :
    I even finished the 'Mids at 980 AD because no one else was building them. Not the map I know, but wow. It was a very very weird map.

    @Herodotus, I'm not bashing you, but the map feels much too "over-cooked" this time. I know you're trying hard, so keep up the good work, but lets try for a bit more balance.
     
  19. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    Since all these talks about cooked map I loaded it... on Monarch epic to get relaxation from diety mapping:)

    Spoiler :





    Saw two spears grand total. Both barbarians. I would say giving Ai chance to die with pretensions too dignity would be better.
     
  20. Doshin

    Doshin jolly yellow giant

    Joined:
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    4,470
    Location:
    Terra
    1842, Deity domination, normal speed, no huts/no events.

    Spoiler :
    Settled 1N for the extra food only to reveal copper in my capital :rolleyes: Expanded peacefully to eight cities. No need for a Keshik rush with so many cities on Deity. It probably would have worked... but it seemed like an unnecessary risk, and I was feeling lazy. The empire at 250 AD:



    TGL had just been chopped out, which was the only wonder I built this game.

    I won a lateish Lib. in 980 AD and took MT, attacking Asoka with Cuirs a few turns later (already had gunpowder). I took two cities (one with the mids) before making an AP enforced peace. My targets then went Wang-Asoka-Gilgamesh-Hammy-Napoleon. Brennus peace vassaled during our war against Gilgamesh:



    I needed to tech to infantry and (later) artillery for the war against Gilgamesh. A good number of artillery will wreck anything in sight. The end result:



    Capital:



    I did end up running Vassalage & Theocracy for the initial attack, and then Police State once I had the mids :hammer: Fun times. It took forever to reach the land % though. I had 80% of the pop, but had to vassal EVERYONE to finally win.

     

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