NC LVI: Willem of the Netherlands

[vranasm]

@dalamb

Spoiler :

if you dont have, you should soon adopt state property... else that former montezuma island will "kill" you in maintenance.

I think all next enemies should be quick Vassal caps, so I wont attack Shaka because he is a bit stubborn.

Suleiman and WK cap quicker if i remember right. So turks first, then Koreans. And then Vikings (they are a bit stubborn too, but you will have base and should steamroll).
Shaka last...or domination will pop.

hmm shame you didnt went for cavalry charge... with rifles+cannons everything is slower. Anyway you should (if you didnt) beeline a bit airships/fighters. They offer great mobility and not bad support for steamrolling.

 

[dalamb]

@vranasm:

Spoiler :

I just don't think in terms of cavalry yet -- something I have to fix! Maybe next game should be a Russian; since I like playing with whatever UU the civ has, that might force me in the right direction.

 

[vranasm]

@vranasm:

Spoiler :

I just don't think in terms of cavalry yet -- something I have to fix! Maybe next game should be a Russian; since I like playing with whatever UU the civ has, that might force me in the right direction.

Spoiler :

cavalry rush is great against LBs and partly to muskets since you can promote them with antigunpowder promotion, so basically you dont need siege. It works great when you outtech a bit opponents.

Russian we had that OCC 2 games ago...remember?

 

[Siran]

Domination Victory as Monarch in 1919. It took me forever to get the 64% land mass. I had more than 3/4 of the population.

 

[dalamb]

WRT Russia: Peter was pretty recent, yes, but there are 2 other leaders, so having one in the next couple of months might be reasonable.

 

[GGS]

With another financial leader I'm willing to put my one game winning streak at monarch on the line. No strong case for moving the settler.

Monarch/Epic. 900 BC.

Spoiler :

Settled in place. The initial home builds were worker, warrior, workboat, archer, settler, archer, settler, worker. Amsterdam built the Great Lighthouse in 1075. The tech path was: mining, BW, hunting, archery (okay, it's a monarch phobia thing), the wheel, AH, masonry, sailing, pottery, IW, mysticism (not quite ready for open borders).

The Dutch managed only two huts - 61 G and hostile. This might be explained by Genghis Khan's scout who appeared from the NW in 3850.

Utrecht was founded in 2325 2N of the sheep as a hammer city. The Hague went 1NW of the marble to hopefully block the Mongols and snare the elephants. This fingers-crossed placement met the immediate purpose.

Fourth in soldiers, second in land, third in population the Dutch are preparing for a look-see at the Mongolians lands as the west and the eastern island have been explored.

 

[dalamb]

BC 4000 - AD 1615

Not a long segment, but I achieved one of my diplomatic goals:

Spoiler :

Destroyed the last Aztec cities on his arctic island, finished tech'ing railroads, then went for Communism, built Scotland Yard in Amsterdam, and started building Intelligence Agencies in some cities.

I had wanted to break up the Hindu block; having found that Wang would switch back after a while because he had the shrine, I focused on coverting Shaka. An event let me spread Christianity to four of his cities:

which was also nice for the income: I popped a Great Prophet in The Hague, my oracle city, where I had almost never run specialists because it was going for high production. So I built the Church of the Nativity in Rotterdam, and go a nice income boost.

but when I tried sending missionaries of my own I found he was in Theocracy (no surprise for a warmonger). So, when switching to State Property, I also switched to Organized Religion so I could "influence civics" to get him out of theocracy.


For some turns I had been running 60% with everything directed against Shaka, so flipping him to OrgRel worked like a charm:


However, it didn't do as much good as I'd hoped; the long years of peace and trade between them won't be offset much by the different religions.

Now, if it had been Wang and Isabella it would have been a different story, especially since Christianity is her favoured religion.

I will stay in OrgRel while building some infrastructure, then switch back to Theocracy for another troop buildup. Wang appears to be the tech leader; I'm nervous about taking him on first given Shaka's attitude towards him, but he's the biggest thread to my rifles-and-cannons (and soon cavalry) tech advantage. Sulieman is at war with Wang, which might make it easier to attack Wang myself (especially if invited) but I might prefer it if Wang asks for my help against Sulie instead. On the other hand, Wang is also the espionage leader, which IMHO pushes up his priority as a target.


Now teching nationalism; may try to build the Taj, but the main goal is to follow vranasm's advice and go for Military Tradition for cavalry.

 

[Amao]

@dalamb:

Communism does better job than Railroad by saving your empire's cost and improve your food output at the same time. And Raiload comes later if you also focus on Biology. On the other hand, you can simply gift the missionary to the guy if they are running Theocracy as long as you open border with him.

As for GP farms, when you have as many cities as you do now, you should have a GP farm or two with very high food. An former AI's capital is the ideal place.

 

[vranasm]

@dalamb

Spoiler :

at 1615AD it's a bit too late for cavalry rush since AIs will start soon get rifles... for cavalry rush in rifles age you need good air support. When you prepare cavalry rush you take Nationalism/MT from lib race, start building cuirs, then you can upgrade relatively cheap to cavs after you get rifles.

soo you should have sticked with rifles+cannon when you choosed so 4 centuries ago. And just strengthen on it (replacing rifles with infantry and cannons with arty).
When you meet industrialization you can change to tanks+air support

 

[Amao]

@dalamb

Spoiler :

at 1615AD it's a bit too late for cavalry rush since AIs will start soon get rifles... for cavalry rush in rifles age you need good air support. When you prepare cavalry rush you take Nationalism/MT from lib race, start building cuirs, then you can upgrade relatively cheap to cavs after you get rifles.

soo you should have sticked with rifles+cannon when you choosed so 4 centuries ago. And just strengthen on it (replacing rifles with infantry and cannons with arty).
When you meet industrialization you can change to tanks+air support

Spoiler :

I don't think dalamb needs to wait for any techs before he start to attack anybody. He just need to build tons of workshops and use the surplus production to outnumber anybody with cannon rush. But the key is dedication and of course with enough workers to convert the things fast.

 

[vranasm]

Spoiler :

I don't think dalamb needs to wait for any techs before he start to attack anybody. He just need to build tons of workshops and use the surplus production to outnumber anybody with cannon rush. But the key is dedication and of course with enough workers to convert the things fast.

Spoiler :

I just wanted to say that there is no need for waiting for cavalries at this point as he wants from the last segment of his post. And that he has to stick with his former strategy and continue.


btw if i see correctly shaka has war with suleiman...that's dangerous because he can eventually vassal him, and suleiman was my preferred first target after aztecs. I think dalamb is too focused on shaka ;-)

 

[May Day 10]

I played about 4000 BC to 1000 BC. Please assess my moves. I am unsure on how to make a good printscreen.

Spoiler :

I started out settling in place. went Worker-Warrior-Settler-Worker-Warrior-Workboat-Granary-Axeman-Settler-Great Lighthouse (succeeded)

Second city was founded SW of the Copper. Immediately went Worker-Barracks-Maoi Statue.

Third City has set out with the axeman to found a city somewhere North between the cows, Marble, Spice, Wine tiles.

Had most of the Island scoped out, but my travelling Warrior died by the hand of a Barbarian Warrior in the South portion of the Island.

I might try to found a 4th City near the clam/fish area.


Techs, I did Bronze Working quickly, then filled in a lot of (or all of) the worker techs. Got some sailing, then went for writing, and now for alphabet. I may have gotten IW too.





Something I always never knew is how you "whip" things when you have slavery. The physical act of what you click I never could figure out.

Also, why was the Great Lighthouse so important to obtain quickly? I saw from others' comments this was a must-have. Why?

Should I be going for the Maoi Statue? It seems like a great deal for a production city like the one SW of Bronze there.

 

[Fierabras]

@May Day 10

Spoiler :

Whipping is sacrificing population for production. In the city screen mouseover the buttons right next to the stuff you can build. It's the left-top button which will be clickable when you have switched to the civic Slavery.

The Great Lighthouse is important because there's not a lot of good land to place your cities (around 6 decent city sites) and the commerce has to come from somewhere. All your cities will probably be coastal (2 in the north), so they'll get the +2 trade routes.

Maoi Statues is good for the extra hammers from the water tiles, but I wouldn't go for it that early and you don't have access to stone yet, so it takes a long time to build. You need a lighthouse first to work the water tiles otherwise your city won't grow.

 

[TheDanish]

Getting back into Civ after a splurge of Starcraft 2. I miss the slower pace!

4000 BC:

Spoiler :

Moved Warrior one west, saw the two Spices. Those might make a good city later, but for now I settled in place. Not a terribly strong Financial capital but it'll work for now.

Built a Worker first and started researching Mining.

 

[GGS]

Monarch/Epic. 745 AD.

Spoiler :

The normally dreaded Mongols turned out to be a hoofless-Keshik, indeed a military-resource-free target. The "war" got underway in 125 BC. Three fine cities kept, one trashed and goodbye Mongolia in 115 AD.

Rotterdam was founded 1SE of the iron in 700BC and now has the Moai Statues. Nijmegen was built 1S of the cow in 370AD and it's a mini-mystery that the Mongols did not take the spot. Utrecht has the Colossus, the Temple of Artemis and the Mausoleum of Maussollos.

Currently, the Dutch are adding Bureaucracy and the C/S to H/R. There is a nation to the NE of the new territories.

The plan? Liberalism and an East Indiamen based navy sounds fine but it will take time - probably a long time.

 

[Fierabras]

Immortal/Normal, 1130 AD - 1826 AD, Cultural Victory

Spoiler :

With Astronomy in hand I had the monopoly on overseas trading and kept that for a long time. After Paper - Education - Liberalism I took Nationalism as the free tech and started building the Taj Mahal, just after I finished a late Mausoleum of Mausollos.

I traded Feudalism for Philosophy and 20 gold with Wang Kon and this was the only tech trade I made during the entire game.

I continued with Guilds - Banking - Economics and started my 12 turn Golden Age and switched to Free Speech and Free Market.

Printing Press - Gunpowder - Replaceable Parts - Rifling was the obvious move to get some defensive riflemen before the AI reached Astronomy. By now my trade route economy was breaking down as all my trading partners switched to Mercantilism.

After Engineering - Chemistry I made the Great Lighthouse obsolete with Constitution - Corporation, because I was beelining towards Sid's Sushi. I switched to Representation and Caste System and continued Scientific Method (making more of my wonders obsolete) - Biology - Medicine.

After this I put my science slider to 0% and the culture slider to 80%. I only put Sid Sushi in the 3 cities that I planned to make legendary. I also build 3 confucian academies and 2 taoist pagodas beforehand to boost culture.





I generated 4 Great Artists to help out and in 1826 AD I reached my goal:



I only had to fend off a naval invasion by the Ottomans and Vikings (knights vs. riflemen) and had a rather easy game for this level. I think I did pretty well for a first time Immortal and I'm very happy with the focus I had for the tech paths.

 

[domi]

I'm very totally a Noble player, this is my first attempt to play on a higher level. So, on MONARCH:

Spoiler :

Settled on place, although considered 1SE for extra fish and 2H city spot as well.
Found Bronze, met Genghis Khan and started planning an axe rush, starting with stealing their worker and killing their scout with my starting warrior.

TECHS: Mining - Bronze Working - Pottery - Animal Husbandry - Writing... Then there was a clueless moment. Basically I was torn between the Myst - Med - Priest - Monarchy path and the Alphabet - Currency path. Chose the latter one, meanwhile stopping Currency for Masonry. And I got The Wheel from a goodie hut.

BUILD ORDER:
Amsterdam: worker - warrior - work boat - settler - barracks - 6 axes - granary - library - *clueless-moment* worker.
Utrecht: Barracks - 4 axes - granary - axe - settler.



Actually I was planning to settle Utrecht 1W, but I guess this time following the blue circle was the right decision.

The capital:



Yeah, the two scientists! This is not my rule of thumb, but I thought that when moving up on difficulty level, it may be wise to follow standard advices from more experienced players.

And the world:



My failed rush! Thought that 9 cr axes would be enough to defeat the Mongolians. Yes, it was enough to get their capital... but I lost ALL of them trying to capture the second city... on a hill... providing Mongolian archers with yummy experience points and a GG. Whipped a warrior in Karakorum, but I'm afraid, that they'll just take it back. Well, I can hope and make plans for later war.

The next city is planned to get marble. And ivory. Cows + few riverside tiles should provide quite enough food.

I guess, I'll play it through, although now I have already cheated by looking at the spoilers.
If you have have any thoughts or comments, feel free to speak, no need to be gentle!

 

[GGS]

Monarch/Epic. 1858 AD. Conquest victory.

This turned out to be a delayed meet, greet and defeat affair.

Spoiler :

The five remaining powers were met between 990 and 1200. The Dutch circumnavigated in 1260 and took astronomy from liberalism in 1265.

Only two eastern island cities and a western penninsula city were founded. Amsterdam hosts Oxford University and Wall Street. Utrech added the National Epic, the Heroic Epic, The Pathenon, the Great Library, the Taj Mahal and the Statue of Zeus. A pair of great merchant expeditions to Istanbul raked in 4,500 G and a few 15 turn golden ages were more than helpful.

Montezuma was allowed to capitulate in 1706 after the Dutch had a chance to occupy his three holy cities. Sulieman followed suit in 1758.

There was a nice break in 1784 when Ragnar declared on Wang Kon. The tougher next target became the easier - even the Ottomans took a Viking city. Ragnar capitulated in 1816 as did his colonial Lincoln. The Koreans were incorporated in 1832.
.
The Zulus put up an extended fight.

This would have been a dramatically different game if Genghis Khan did not have to fight with both hands tied behind his back.

 

[May Day 10]

Im looking very much forward to continuing with the early-mid stages tonight.

 

[May Day 10]

I'm very totally a Noble player, this is my first attempt to play on a higher level. So, on MONARCH:

Spoiler :

Settled on place, although considered 1SE for extra fish and 2H city spot as well.
Found Bronze, met Genghis Khan and started planning an axe rush, starting with stealing their worker and killing their scout with my starting warrior.

TECHS: Mining - Bronze Working - Pottery - Animal Husbandry - Writing... Then there was a clueless moment. Basically I was torn between the Myst - Med - Priest - Monarchy path and the Alphabet - Currency path. Chose the latter one, meanwhile stopping Currency for Masonry. And I got The Wheel from a goodie hut.

BUILD ORDER:
Amsterdam: worker - warrior - work boat - settler - barracks - 6 axes - granary - library - *clueless-moment* worker.
Utrecht: Barracks - 4 axes - granary - axe - settler.



Actually I was planning to settle Utrecht 1W, but I guess this time following the blue circle was the right decision.

The capital:



Yeah, the two scientists! This is not my rule of thumb, but I thought that when moving up on difficulty level, it may be wise to follow standard advices from more experienced players.

And the world:



My failed rush! Thought that 9 cr axes would be enough to defeat the Mongolians. Yes, it was enough to get their capital... but I lost ALL of them trying to capture the second city... on a hill... providing Mongolian archers with yummy experience points and a GG. Whipped a warrior in Karakorum, but I'm afraid, that they'll just take it back. Well, I can hope and make plans for later war.

The next city is planned to get marble. And ivory. Cows + few riverside tiles should provide quite enough food.

I guess, I'll play it through, although now I have already cheated by looking at the spoilers.
If you have have any thoughts or comments, feel free to speak, no need to be gentle!

Ill start by saying I am not a very good player.

This shouldnt be a spoiler really.
I think you should have spit out 1, probably 2 more workers early. Also, if you decide to make an early war with a Civ without an early UU, would it have been possible and adviseable to beeline to get catapults and go AH-Writing-Math-Construction instead of Alpha/Currency and Masonry?