NC XIX: Napoleon

[tycoonist]

cities always get 2 food 1hammer and 1 commerce. they can get more if you settle on top of plains hills, or stone, or rice or something of that ilk

 

[Single Malt]

djvandrake, The city square will always have 2, 1, 1 minimum. So its preferable to settle on a desert square if it reduces the total desert squares in the bfc while getting all required resources.

 

[Single Malt]

I am going to have to go again, as I didn't fair too well.

Spoiler :

That Bismarck fellow can build an effective SoD, respect, as I have never seen that of an AI. It was good siege to unit ratio. He had phants, and HA, and I didn't have enough pikes to counter. It took my SoD 2 turns to remove it, hardly denting Bizzys power rating. I will start over, and be ore aggressive, as Pangea requires it.

 

[Anomander Rake]

@ TMIT Update as promised now I am home

Spoiler :

My auto log caught the events, but I didn't turn on 'proper' logging so have no proper time reference:

Other Player Actions:
A Fishing Boats was destroyed near Paris
A Fishing Boats near Paris was destroyed by Viking Galleon

This was fairly early, I had only just sent out my first settler - Worker, warrior (explorer), workboat, warrior (escort) Settler was by build order.

Spoiler :

Paris founded
Paris begins: Worker (23 turns)
...
After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Worker

Other Player Actions:
Paris begins: Warrior (22 turns)
...
After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 2
Paris finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
Paris begins: Work Boat (15 turns)
...
Other Player Actions:
A Fishing Boats was built near Paris
Paris begins: Worker (10 turns)
...
After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Worker

Other Player Actions:
Paris begins: Warrior (8 turns)
...
After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Masonry
Paris finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
Research begun: Mysticism (7 Turns)
Paris begins: Settler (15 turns)
...
After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Tech research finished: Mysticism
Paris finishes: Settler

This is the current state of play



Unfortunately, I am very very bad at remembering to SS (what is the hot key/procedure to name your shots you take them?

I am going to restart and this time will log properly and try SS everything.

Clearly it won't be the same as I am going to beeline The Great Wall!

AR

 

[KingMorgan]

RE: Alantis

Spoiler :

Got seafood pillaged around 800AD, they started landing settlers around 1000AD. Not a huge issue, but annoyingly they took the GW very early, killed my early planned espionage related antics.

Barbs are VERY active, perhaps this is to do with the number of gaps i've left in my empire, but there was noticeably higher spawn than i'd expect. Mainly warriors, but later a lot of Axes,

To be perfectly honest playing a noble based worldbuilder on Emperor level is very different to a standard Emp game, the global tech rate is way behind, i'd also thought from what i'd picked up on these games that the only difference is the lack of Archery as starting tech, but thinking about it i guess the AI starts with less bonus units and techs? If you have the time TMIT could you explain the differences between a normal Emp game and an Nobles club Emp game? Thanks in advance.

All credit and thanks to you for taking the time to host these games

 

[TheMeInTeam]

RE: Alantis

Spoiler :

Got seafood pillaged around 800AD, they started landing settlers around 1000AD. Not a huge issue, but annoyingly they took the GW very early, killed my early planned espionage related antics.

Barbs are VERY active, perhaps this is to do with the number of gaps i've left in my empire, but there was noticeably higher spawn than i'd expect. Mainly warriors, but later a lot of Axes,

To be perfectly honest playing a noble based worldbuilder on Emperor level is very different to a standard Emp game, the global tech rate is way behind, i'd also thought from what i'd picked up on these games that the only difference is the lack of Archery as starting tech, but thinking about it i guess the AI starts with less bonus units and techs? If you have the time TMIT could you explain the differences between a normal Emp game and an Nobles club Emp game? Thanks in advance.

All credit and thanks to you for taking the time to host these games

On playing higher-level games on the noble saves (spoilers about some AIs):

Spoiler :

The AI will get the right number of units, but they'll be limited by the techs. Usually this is just archery but if you're running difficulties where they're supposed to get other techs free they don't get those either. They'll get extra workers/settlers but only warriors to accompany them. Other bonuses are the same!

The down tech rate in this game is probably a function of the map. You have three zealot-types: Izzy, Charlie, and Brennus. The remaining civs are more aggressive than tech-prone, and there's a good likelihood that differing religions with these personalities screw trades.

I see that atlantis actually does harass people, and on higher levels can actually take wonders (amazing, really, given its start). I apologize if that messes up the game a bit, as in all of my tests that honestly wasn't the case. At least it does it to the AIs, too, and that probably slightly affects tech rate as well, but the real issue is probably religions and the slightly nerfed starts for the AI.

 

[oyzar]

TMIT:

Spoiler :

Why do you keep doing weird stuff like putting minor civs into these noble club games? These are made for helping newer players not as weird variants right? Maybe start a new series if you just want weird variants? Did you know that minor civs causes to the AI to always think it is in wheeorn for purposes of tech trading? There are probably a host of other such similar bugs that aren't properly implemented for minro civs...

Oh and get on msn

 

[JTMacc99]

TMIT:

Spoiler :

The down tech rate in this game is probably a function of the map. You have three zealot-types: Izzy, Charlie, and Brennus. The remaining civs are more aggressive than tech-prone, and there's a good likelihood that differing religions with these personalities screw trades.

Yeah. You know, I didn't think about that yet (1000BC) but I can see how that is going to play out. I think I need to figure out a way to both grab the gems and dye to my southwest AND to stomp Charlie and take his holy city and land before he becomes a problem. If I can pull off those two things, I'd say that I'll be able to generate plenty of research all by myself. Well, enough research to get to Steel before anybody else does, and that should be just what the doctor ordered for the rest of this game.

 

[gcm4738]

Monarch/Epic to 1000 AD

Spoiler :

Short report as this was a fairly straightforward and uneventful round... I captured a barb city on the SW peninsula. Bismarck got the other, so now I'm up to 8 cities. Teching nearly as well as the leaders and better than the rest. Just finished Civ Service and starting to build macemen, the first units I've built in a long time. Military is small and out-of-date now which was ok because of Great Wall and nifty political dancing.

The political situation continues much as before. Brennus is one bloc to himself destroying Vicky. Izzy and Bizzy are the Buddhist bloc and courting me. I'm next in at #4 with my Hindu buds Charle and JC behind me still beating on Ragnar who's sinking along with Vicky. So I'm keeping Charle and JC sweet and tech trading with them while giving into the occasional demand. Whether to swap sides... Hmmm. I've just started to build units again and it's time to think about the next war. Either Charle or Bismarck I think. Brennus is a long shot. He's number one though, and lagging in tech, so maybe he's not such a long shot.

Other stuff... Built Parthe, Nat Epic in Paris, running Pacifism and getting ready to pop some more GP. 2 scientists in last round. One bulbed philosophy (I founded Taoism, but didn't convert) The other went to build an academy in my new-ish double gem, double dye, banana cottage village captured from the barbs, cause it should be a great commerce city and needs some culture protection. That's it really. Cheap courthouses - built, markets - built. forges - built. City specialisation taking shape. 8 cities and teching ok. Happiness not a problem due to resources (gold popped just outside Paris for me too - woo hoot!) Just about to pop another GP so I'm teching compass so that if it's a scientist maybe I bulb Education then? (Compass is next in the Scientist bulb line anyway.) In any case, I'm in with a chance at the liberalism race. (G Lib went a loooooong time ago - I think to the Atlantans)

Time to start preparing for some sort of limited action against someone so when economy is fully back and infrastructure fully modern I can take a little more land. Actually, that time is probably now, but I'll sleep on it tonight and have a look tomorrow with fresh eyes.

Oh and on Atlantis and teching...

Spoiler :

Atlantis: Not really a factor in this game. Islam has not spread, due to everyone else being a zealot. Other than losing my fishing boats and capturing 2 Atlantan cities I haven't seen them. Don't know what, if anything, they're doing to the AI's.

Teching: Has been a little slower in this game than some others I've played recently. Personally I think this is more due to the map/religion in the game rather than the AI not starting with a tech or two, but I've got no real way of knowing

 

[Rycheman]

Monarch/Epic to 110 BC [actually played this early yesterday evening, just got round to posting thou']

Spoiler :

Ok, here goes:-
I decided to settle in place as i wasn't really sold on the idea to settle on the stone.
Early research order was AH, Mining, Fishing, Mysticism, Masonry, BW, Sailing.
Wonders built in Paris, Stonehenge on turn 67 [2325bc], Great Wall on turn 75[2125bc].

My second city went to the east to claim copper, cow, rice and i built The Pyramids there in 335bc.Third city went north of Paris on the river for rice and Iron.Fourth city claimed the Horses and pigs, fifth on the spice river to block off Charlie.I have two more settlers out next turn and will try to claim some of the jungle real estate to SW of Paris.I can also settle a couple of other filler sites in between my cities.I'm thinking of Moai on the coast west of Paris with the sheep and copper.I like to get this going early if possible for great production.Not that we're short of hammers on this map.

My scouting didn't really go to plan due to barb activity outside the cities.I also went in every direction except SW so as yet have not seen anyones borders, only Charlie's.The only thing i've seen of Atlantis so far [thank god] is a work boat off my northern coast.

At present, i'm in the Hindu love fest.Charlie was the founder, with both Caesar and Ragnar adopting it.Charlie and Caesar are both pleased towards me, for now.Although Ragnar and Charlie are at war with each other but i'm staying out of it.

My research is not very good atm and i could do with working some cottages and running some scientists asap.I also need to start pumping out some more military units as i've just had a nasty shock.
Caesar had a stack of 7 chariots and an archer right on the border of my copper city.He was already pleased with me and had just gifted me archery, at my request.My only military was warriors and a few axes out of the city.I thought this is it, he's going to declare on me and even a whipped spear or archer won't save me.Instead, he just walked right throu' my borders...phew.
He sure is making me feel uncomfortable thou' with that stack wandering around my borders.Hopefully he's just looking for barbs to kill.

It certainly looks a very interesting game and a lot more difficult than the Willem game.We'll see how things go from here.

 

[Rycheman]

A word on Atlantis.

Spoiler :

On my Espionage screen it shows Genghis Khan leaderhead for the Atlantis civ

 

[KingMorgan]

@TMIT

Spoiler :

thanks for the info, your right on the tech speed, after a futher poking around the tech situation isn't as bad as i first thought, i suspect as you say it is a combi of map and AI personalties.

i sort of agree with Oz that for noble players it can be a little disconcerting and perhaps scary to have AI galleons show up at 2500bc. For me though i find it amusing and different - in a good way.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

I played the "monarch-lite" version, and didn't have anything freaky happen with Atlantis. That being said, I'm the guy who asked for a little religious mayhem, so I appreciate the attempt!

I didn't settle on the stone (I'm really stubborn about settling in place most of the time. Seeing how that worked out for some, I guess it probably would have been a better move. I still got GW, SH, and GW and some decent REXING though, so it worked out.

I know someone posted above about not messing with the maps, but I really enjoy it. If you do decide to tone it down, I'd be all for a new bullpen "TMIT plays with your map!"

 

[Anexus]

Well, I just picked up Civ 4 after a couple years. I was never an expert at the game and I found these Nobles game and sounded like a lot of fun. I tried out the Wilhem one just for practice. I found it to be pretty easy, but drawn out win because I went for diplomatic victory but couldn't get Gilgamesh to support me so had to spend turns and turns building spaceship parts.

Here is my Noble, normal speed Napoleon game through 680 AD.

Spoiler :

Here is the state of the world at 680 AD. I settled Paris 2E from the start. Extra hammer, river tile. 2 food squares since half of its area is plains. should be a good production center. Especially when I get levees.


I've taken out Charlemagne at 250 AD with Swordsmen and Catapults. He founded Buddhism so I've taken the holy city of Aachen. My goal is to go for a domination victory... although I've yet to encounter Atlantis. The Germans are at war with them, so I'm hoping to make contact soon enough.

Unfortunately the two strongest powers besides myself are Brennus and Isabella. The latter is teching really well and won't trade with me. She's Christian, a religion I can't convert to. Rome and the Vikings are relatively backwards and went to war with each other so I'm unconcerned about them. Long term I believe Isabella will be my biggest threat.

I could have done a lot more by this time period, but the finances are hurting. I'm trying to keep parity in techs because the biggest powers won't trade with me, so it's limiting my capacity to expand. I'm finding organized less useful than financial, but I don't think I've played to the trait's strengths. I'm generally not a warmonger, but this game seems conducive to warmongering because of all the choke points and can focus on one enemy at a time.

Two of the biggest setbacks was going for pyramids and stonehenge. I thought I had a good shot at both but missed out on both. On the plus side it gave me gold to do some deficit spending to keep research up while expanding my empire. I did get great library, so that will help my science.

I've recently had anarchy switching to bureaucracy. In 5 turns i will switch to hereditary rule and organized religion. Backfill in my area with more cities, beeline to musketmen. During that time I hope to be able to convert to christianity so I can trade techs with isabella. Then build up my war capacity to take out Brennus and/or Frederick. Then Rome/Vikings who should be pushovers. Then build up a massive force to take out Isabella. I may take her out first if it's prudent, but I'm worried about her tech advantage.

I know I've made a lot of mistakes, but I'm hoping these changes will lead to victory down the road.

 

[Single Malt]

TMIT

Spoiler :

I think that maybe to incite religious mayhem it would have been better to make a proper civ take the space of the minor barb nation. Then Islam would have autospread to other cities, as there wouldn't be a permanent war.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

TMIT

Spoiler :

I think that maybe to incite religious mayhem it would have been better to make a proper civ take the space of the minor barb nation. Then Islam would have autospread to other cities, as there wouldn't be a permanent war.

Spoiler :

I thought so too, but in order for there to be auto spread that civ would still have to have astro. Those are two major, advantageous trade bait technologies. Mostly, however, I figured that since closed borders doesn't stop religious spread, why would war? Guess it does . I'll try to make things better in the next time I attempt a map like this. A lot of people always complain though...even though at NOBLE it should play like a normal game.

 

[Point13]

Noble normal, good times

Spoiler :

So I settle in place

We make some friends:

Izzy has a religion, joy.

I found Orleans

I'm hoping that once I get a monument running there that it will block the mountain pass and give me some time to fill out.

Ummmmmmm.... what?

And 1000 BC with Lyons founded

I didn't look at this game too hard, my plans are to fill out and grab the copper/horses next. Then Charles is gonna get a visit.

 

[djvandrake]

Could use a little advice. This is not going so well..

Spoiler :

I did manage to build the Great Lighthouse in Paris. Goodness.

There are barbs crawling all over the place. Thankfully they're heading down to give Bismarck and Charle a hard time.

In the 1,500 years since my last update all I've really managed to accomplish is building 3 more cities, hooking up iron, horses, and that copper, and taking out a barb city that spawned to my northwest. I had a great spy born from the wall and I settled him in the capital.

Here's the barb city.

Yeah, SRLY? Caesar has already reached Philosophy? Come one now. Izzy bulbed Theocracy in 200 B.C. and founded Christianity.

There's been a few wars. Brennus declared on Bismarck, then Caesar declared on Brennus. Ragnar declared on Izzy, but that one was shorl lived. He sent hordes of axes and swords through France to get to Spain, and took a barb city along the way before getting peace. Everone want's me involved but I'm too weak at the moment.

The overall view...

Here's to the southwest....

And the northeast....

And the relations screen...

I share religions with Charle, Caesar, and Ragnar. The other block is Hindu with Izzy, Brennus, Bismarck. Vicky hasn't got one yet. She's the only civ more backwards than me at the moment.

Here's the tech screen...

I'm putting all my espionage from that great spy toward Izzy in hopes of stealing a tech or two.

And finally the laughable power graph...

So? Why is this going so poorly? I really struggle with things when I don't found a religion and get a great prophet or two. This one is no exception. I'm second in land area, but 5th in gold production so it's taking me awhile to get this land productive. Any thoughts on how to catch up?

At this point I just hope to survive. It's a matter of time before Brennus comes for Caesar, and I'm in the way. He does have to finish off Bismarck first, but it's not going well for Germany.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Could use a little advice. This is not going so well..

Spoiler :

I did manage to build the Great Lighthouse in Paris. Goodness.

There are barbs crawling all over the place. Thankfully they're heading down to give Bismarck and Charle a hard time.

In the 1,500 years since my last update all I've really managed to accomplish is building 3 more cities, hooking up iron, horses, and that copper, and taking out a barb city that spawned to my northwest. I had a great spy born from the wall and I settled him in the capital.

Here's the barb city.

Yeah, SRLY? Caesar has already reached Philosophy? Come one now. Izzy bulbed Theocracy in 200 B.C. and founded Christianity.

There's been a few wars. Brennus declared on Bismarck, then Caesar declared on Brennus. Ragnar declared on Izzy, but that one was shorl lived. He sent hordes of axes and swords through France to get to Spain, and took a barb city along the way before getting peace. Everone want's me involved but I'm too weak at the moment.

The overall view...

Here's to the southwest....

And the northeast....

And the relations screen...

I share religions with Charle, Caesar, and Ragnar. The other block is Hindu with Izzy, Brennus, Bismarck. Vicky hasn't got one yet. She's the only civ more backwards than me at the moment.

Here's the tech screen...

I'm putting all my espionage from that great spy toward Izzy in hopes of stealing a tech or two.

And finally the laughable power graph...

So? Why is this going so poorly? I really struggle with things when I don't found a religion and get a great prophet or two. This one is no exception. I'm second in land area, but 5th in gold production so it's taking me awhile to get this land productive. Any thoughts on how to catch up?

At this point I just hope to survive. It's a matter of time before Brennus comes for Caesar, and I'm in the way. He does have to finish off Bismarck first, but it's not going well for Germany.

Couple things:

Spoiler :

The city count isn't bad, but it isn't great. It's fine though. You do want to settle some more while you have time, and you want to improve your military somewhat.

I'm going to call you mainly on two things (nobody can improve every aspect of their game at once): Tech priority, and infrastructure. You have way too many unimproved tiles right now. I had more with my cities scattered every which way going for conquest. You need more workers and sooner. You might also wish to review city specialization, although I can't tell the extent that is lacking from just the screen shots, because the improvements don't make it 100% clear.

Even with the underdeveloped cities, you could bet at or ahead of parity right now if you researched different techs first. Try to research things the AI doesn't have so you can trade them. Alpha or aesthetics can both be traded for monarchy/iron working/etc as needed. Math is a very common tech for the AI to research.

Your other main problem I see is a bunch of cities with . Monarchy would help this, and if you'd gotten aesthetics or alpha earlier you'd have had it much sooner.

Just a fun note: On immortal, philosophy going in the BC's isn't that uncommon . There are players far better than myself who get it first easily anyway (it's a great trading tech, actually). Regardless, you should probably get the basics like growing your cities, expansion timing, and what to tech next in order to improve.

As for this game, you're still in it. See if you can't trade something for your partial researched monarchy ASAP, get more workers in the field, improve your tiles, finish expanding, and set a dedicated military city or two to protect yourself (or if diplo is secure, just crank military garrisons for HR). This is assuming you didn't get mids...I don't remember in your game. If you got them, forget monarchy altogether.

 

[Anexus]

Well, I continued my game, and here's the state of affairs 1600 AD

Spoiler :

As you can see my empire has grown, but not as much as I would have liked. My intention was to take out Isabella, but I simply didn't have enough forces. I did manage to take 3 cities and that was enough to get her to vassalize, which for now is good enough.

The Germans have a ton of forces, as they were in a war against the Vikings and sent hordes of troops through my territory. During this time, Atlantis took over my unprotected town (didn't even occur to me this would happen, oops). And the Germans took it from Atlantis before I could. So now I'm trying to culture bomb it back as it was supposed to be another production city.

A mistake I realized is that I didn't focus my cities enough. I should have made 2 military towns that produced nothing but troops so I could wage more effective war.

So I decided to tech to levees to take advantage of all my rivers to up the production capacity of many of my cities. I have the largest tech lead by a significant margin so I may be able to eke out a domination win by pumping out far superior forces.

My next target will likely be Germany and if necessary I can get the Celts to help out. If that's successful, then it'll be time to take out the Celts and then clean up the other nations as they are all very weak. Rome, Vikings and England pose no threat as they are very backwards. And Spain is under control now so I don't have to worry about religion so much. If i can't achieve domination, I'll just have to build lots of defensive troops and go space race, which I find boring.