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NC XV: Roosevelt of America

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by TheMeInTeam, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Hello everybody, it's time to present the 15th installment of the Noble's Club series!



    America...America. We bestow questionable UUs and UBs on thee. Nonetheless, the collection of leaders for this civ have strong traits, and the starting techs are nice and allow for versatility also. Our leader today is known for wonderspam and for the fact that he is probably the fastest person to get the Great Lighthouse in the game.

    And the start:

    Spoiler:

    Spoiler :


    There's a reason this one took me around 2 hours to put together, and that's because I decided to have some fun with NC XV. We are on a tectonics map, set to wet because if it isn't you get not-so-great plains everywhere. Why so long then? Well, because I had to play test this at noble and a few other difficulties to make sure it's balanced decently (I really think it is now, but feel free to tell me otherwise and maybe I'll make some modifications). You'll see what I mean pretty fast once you play.

    And here is the standard cut and paste of our Club Doctrine(ME STOLE YOUR DOCTRINE, BLEYS!):

    There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

    Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

    4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
    1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
    500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
    1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
    1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
    End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

    Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

    We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

    Special Thanks go to Bleys, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series (and the one I learned from!), and all of you for playing.

    The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC XV". This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

    Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince. However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs (unless your host gets too creative). The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main affects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech Archery themselves.

    In addition, because of the variations of using the Scenario menu, your starting Scout/Warrior may not be in exactly the same spot as the one shown.

    Starting zip file:

    View attachment 193232

    TMIT's Map Tip:

    Spoiler :
    First of all, you're not getting an Oracle Theology slingshot (others should work fine). I don't care if your name is Unconquered Sun. Don't fret that nonsense elsewhere in the world. For now, your objective is to expand. I recommend walling off the nearby AIs, and going for the great lighthouse. If you do that, you should be able to expand rampantly.

    On complaints about tectonics:

    Generally speaking, land on tectonics is worse than normal. It might feel to the player as if you're doing poorly, but believe me even if you don't adapt at all, you're still likely to come out ahead of AIs. I actually like tectonics a lot although if they're still a big problem I'll avoid them in NC. I purposely gave the player a (relatively) good start and a number of choices in approaches, so it's not like NC X where we were caught on a HUGE area, with monty nearby and less food than normal. By contrast this has more food and more flexibility in decisions.

    Also, to be 100% clear - Minor nations will NOT screw you in this game. In THIS series, I'm a responsible host, I won't hose the player that way.



    Edit: updated tips.
     
  2. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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    I'll be playing this one in a bit.. still have too many unfinished games to take care off... ;) Roosevelt is certainly a late game power with cheap Forges and Factories as well as late UU and UB.
     
  3. Dresden

    Dresden Emperor

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    Yeah, I'll give this a shot after I finish my Saladin writeup. Off-topic, but why is your leadername "Splat" in the Opening Pic? That seems like a bad omen. :p
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    My roommate says it a lot, and likes to name himself things like "sauce" when playing games like quake/unreal tournament/halo. I guess the idiocy rubbed off a bit :lol:. It previously said my name, so I changed it the first thing that came to mind.

    The REAL "bad omen" comes around 3700 BC ;). Although trust me, many runs through this game suggests this is very beatable, in fact it might even be easier than average. Maybe.
     
  5. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

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    TMIT, you are insane. Honestly.
     
  6. KaytieKat

    KaytieKat King

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    Hi

    Marathon,Noble like 3500BC or so Half a checkpoint yikes less than 20 turns turns in game and decide I better just wait till next game


    Spoiler :
    I was already wary when I saw it tetonics since that is one of my least favorite map to play. Then like 3 or 4 turns into game I see that superbarb msg thingy and religions going off like crazy and one civ destroyed asap. This doesnt sound like a map for me :(.

    Game would have been tuff enuff just with tetonics without some kind of weird custom made super civ thrown in and not sure why game was made so getting any shot of any religion would never happen. Things like that werent even mentioned in discussion :/.

    I will give a pass and see what 16 is like.


    Kaytie
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    An early walkthrough, Emp/Epic, to give people who aren't playing or have played to this part some insight:

    to 10 AD:

    Spoiler :
    I settled in place. As usual on epic (or anything but quick) my starting guy hugs the water since I left barbs on. We are greeted by something interesting:



    Whoa. Choose religions isn't on! Super Barb? What's the map maker trying to pull ;). Super Barb is a minor nation (people who've played scenarios may have noticed similar updates coming from people they hadn't met yet, like the earth 1000 scenario). I gave super barb some shiznaz so that he wouldn't get utterly owned, which is what occurred in my initial tests. Since this is NC I was nice and stuck him somewhere he can't damage us too much.

    Moving along, my scouting reveals surrounding territory:



    A mountain ridge, hardly a part of your normal pangaea/continents fare, is a factor here. blocking Vicky is a priority as we'll get some decent land if we manage.

    Opening techs were BW (we had AG and fishing already) to improve the surrounding land and then archery. After some archers and workers I put down the first block city:



    I went with that one first because gold/cow is juicy early on, and that's a hill defense point that if I'm attacked will likely occur there.

    City #2 claims copper and after a border pop will also cut the 2nd line into my territory:



    After I got these cities up I decided rather than do my oft-favored rush that I'd tech a little bit. Early GS's are important, I put my capitol to use for this:



    From there I decided to take a shot at oracle, which I got somewhat late:



    Took CoL for temple happiness and access to caste, which I'll be using in my capitol CoL is good trade bait too if you get it first especially so.

    Vicky picks up the mids:



    And I grab my first city I'm comfortable putting cottages into:



    Capitol having been denoted as my GP farm by now.

    It's very late for the great lighthouse and I really wasn't planning on getting it but since it was around I opted to grab it:



    And seeing the tech situation and having marble TGL and NE in capitol make a lot of sense. This meant military had to be relegated to boston and new york though, and it left the barb city NE JUST long enough that PERICLES took it :(. That SUCKS! I had a solution though:



    This got me DoW'd on by Izzy.

    Pericles chickened out pretty quick:



    And there I am, having rushed someone before the BC's after all :rolleyes:.







    I plan to grab the gold/seafood east obviously as well as a city to work the pigs and some farms post-civil service. There's room for 1-2 more depending on food down south because I want all that fur.

    The only person teching well other than me is Vicky. She's pretty big (even expanded north of me). I'm debating between medieval war or cuirassers + spies on the harder cities to take her down. Everyone else is probably capitulation fodder.

    I've been harassed to move up to immortal a bit lately and I have been off and on but I like doing well sometimes too :p. For EQM I'm going the immortal route and I'm about halfway there so these are practice games to improve myself too! Hopefully some readers learn also.


    View attachment 193273
     
  8. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I'll get another version for you if it intimidates you, hang on a sec. But before I do that here's something that might encourage you to stick it out!:

    Spoiler :
    There's a minor nation in this game - I actually put it in to make it EASIER. Wary of the problems in NC 10, I stuck a nation next to the AIs on another continent, gave it theology. A minor nation attacks EVERYONE. I was basically using it to harass and slow down the AIs - no need to be intimidated! The reason I gave it theology is that it gets dogpiled instantly. I playtested this a lot to make sure it wouldn't be harder than normal!


    Edit: Nerfed the surprise out of the game, but again doing this could actually make it harder as I put that in not just to be cute (though that's part of the reason), but also to make the game easier on the player.

    Edit 2: We don't start with mysticism, but you can certainly get religion...

    Still, for anyone who feels the same way, here's the same start/map without it:

    View attachment 193254
     
  9. Dresden

    Dresden Emperor

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    Thanks for the explanation. It is pretty disconcerting at first...
    Spoiler :
    ... and calling it "SuperBarb" doesn't help ease the apprehension. :p But after exploring most of the continent it was pretty clear the minor civ was not nearby and so for me it's now a minor concern compared to dealing with Tectonics and my own lousy early game. ;)
     
  10. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

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    Wont be able to get a report up for a few days TMIT, but I promise a decent one for this leader, trying to show-case my very successful GLH based TRE style. Its a great style that seems to translate very well up the difficulty scale, at least with the proper map-leader fit.

    But I have some stuff going on the next couple days, even needed to skip my SG turn.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    That's one of the reasons I picked tectonics was to showcase what this leader can do with GLH relative to AIs that don't adapt to tectonics very well ;).

    Time will tell if my efforts to make the map interesting work well or flop, hopefully people at least play far enough into the map to really see though...I took extra time to make sure it works!
     
  12. Dresden

    Dresden Emperor

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    Yeah, I look forward to hearing more about the GLH/TRE because I don't really know how to approach this map.

    Spoiler :
    I assume it involves settling (almost) all coastal cities and that probably means we have some offshore islands to settle too. My first 2 settlements were actually landlocked to grab resources but I'm looking to move up the coast afterwards.
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Bleys is the veteran of GLH/TRE. I'm probably best known for cottage spam. Hell, that would probably work on this map pretty well (especially if you move the palace but even if you didn't). Most tactics are open.

    A little of everything economy to 1640 AD:

    Spoiler :
    A lot of euro civs on this map but wasn't expecting the degree of wars I got in my game:



    The player starts on the corner of this map though so much less diplo issues to fret over for us than the people stuck in the middle. Especially with mountain chokes, staying alive isn't the issue here - it's doing something with the land we claim.

    In 250 AD I've got bureaucracy and Nat. Epic, swap into that and caste and pound out the GS's in the capitol since it's got all that seafood and irrigated corn:





    Now, I'd bulbed philosophy even founding taoism, but I didn't want to use pacifism or any religious civic because I didn't want to draw mass hatred/dogpiling/etc. It's no good teching faster if you have to burn craptons of hammers into staying alive. But THEN, they spread judaism to me, RIGHT where I needed it!



    Look at the GPP in the capitol now!



    At this point GLH is only helping mildly but every little bit helps (and the AI doesn't get it on this map nerf nerf nerf). Bulbing the way to liberalism whilst also picking up MT pre-reqs is the order of the day. I'd also started focusing EP on vicky. I want 1000=2000 EP on her so that cities that are strongly defended have no defense thanks to spies. Hammer cities (the first two I settled actually) finished making workers/settlers and then just produced spies. Might as well get the war prep that can be done now out of the way!

    As I'm waiting for another GS to bulb education I head down the music/nationalism line (nobody has paper so no lib threats), and get to music first. I use the artist to bomb a somewhat culturally threatened city...later on this will let me hit that city instantly on DoW:



    Bulb education, backfill to get MC/compass, tech out nationalism, bulb lib, and sink 4 turns into liberalism:



    I just needed gunpowder then. I'd settled extra cities to prepare for this and most had stables or would have them shortly.

    In 1150 I make some civic changes:



    Which is good for this and some more coming:



    The cottage city and fur/cottage cities to the south did not whip, and neither did the capitol as it had lots of hammers anyway. EVERY OTHER CITY whipped. A lot and with 0 regard for whip :mad:. Yay units! They'll get over it eventually.

    How are the AIs handling tectonics and bulb tradings humans, meanwhile?



    Oooh. Not well.

    I declared war on that turn, in 1275 AD. I'd already stationed spies in her major cities, so one can only imagine how hard this one was. Made a GG medic mid-war. I've seen some hate for the mounted line on general discussions/BTS discussion. Cries of "they're useless!" sure seem well-founded don't they :rolleyes::



    I'd taken victoria's core cities and none but hastings would even feel a whiff of culture pressure (hastings I decided I'd build culture twice there, and since current english culture wasn't touching it that'd probably do).

    From here on out, it was hammer economy time. Forges, barracks, stables. Anything else wouldn't get built unless I needed some culture (and theaters for happiness). There were some snags, for example nap DoW'd me in the early 1400's but classical melee and catapults of triremes were a weak effort (he had gunpowder, what was he doing with this nonsense?!). He didn't even get a city, because I dialed up a distraction:



    Pericles thought of revenge from earlier too or something and DoW'd me along with nappy. Nappy took peace after I murdered his 10 catapults and minimal other forces though, and I took 2 of pericles' cities, one I kept the other I gave to vicky due to her culture pressure there. No capitulation for now just peace.

    As of 1640 I've finished SP, finished rifling, and upgraded my main cuirasser stack to cavalry. I have a small window to strike someone before rifling, and I'm leaning towards making it asoka because he's much stronger than napolean and the bigger tech risk. Here's the empire @ 1640 AD:









    Cottage green! There are some cottage cities, some hammer cities, and a former specialist city converted to hammers because I'd farmed out a ton and at this point I'd just be using them for GA's (which I did once to get current civics of police state/vassalage/caste/SP/FR). PS I can do because I took vicky's mids :p. Guilds/caste/chemistry (all of which I have) workshops are just scary. I think this continent is mine shortly.

    On the other side of the world, super barb is still giving bismark/sal hell. They'll ALL be walkovers if I take care of business on my continent.


    View attachment 193272
     
  14. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    All this talking in spoilers get me interested. Will try it. (After finishing cookbook rounds). Epic/Monarch.
     
  15. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

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    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Had a few minutes before my day got too crazy to even think about Civ, so I decided to start this one.

    Opening thoughts through 1000 BC:
    Spoiler :
    Settled in place, because it is an awesome spot. Sent my warrior out exploring, as I build Boat, Worker, Boat (chopped), Warrior, Lighthouse, Warrior, Settler, Worker, Boat, Worker, Great Wall, GLH, with another settler and worker during with overflow during those builds.

    2nd city is a gamble, I went for the Crab-Elephant spot over by Vicky. Its going to be a culture problem, but since Vickey built the Mids in 1650 BC!!!! she is my first target. I have already stolen an Elephant from her, and since I didnt tech Hunting, its sweet, heh. Saddly, I dont have a coastal route to that city, so my workers are putting up that road.

    Teched Mining, BW, Sailing. I learned something in the Monarch Cookbook about big-seafood starts, from DaveMcW, actually, and thats "early Sailing, get that Lighthouse up FAST, and whip the crap out of your capitol". After Sailing I went Masonry, Myst, Pottery, Writing, and I am in the middle of Aesthetics now. After that, I will go Poly, Lit, and build the GLibrary, since my 3rd city grabbed the Marble/Wheat/Gold site. I did NOT settle the Copper yet, though, instead, I build the GW to solve the Barb issue. Worked too, they settled 2 decent cities for me that I will capture soon. Heres a pic of my current position:



    I will do better updates the rest of the game, but I am super busy for a couple days.


    Special message to TMIT:
    Spoiler :
    Bro, the next one of these, could you PLEASE PLEASE go in, and edit the darn colors of these AI!! I have met 4 so far, and 3 of them are just another shade of blue! I am blue!!

    LOL I thought you might get a smile out of that, mate. Love the map, Tectonics rocks. Not the best case GLH map out there, I still prefer the non-isolated isolation with all the AIs reachable by galley ones you get with B&S and M&S.


    For Kaytie:
    Spoiler :
    Kaytie, I know I have said this before, but you really do grossly underestimate your abilities. Sure, this map wont be the cake-walk that some of these are, but please stop cutting yourself down. I read every one of your reports, and you have MAD skills. You are VERY VERY solid, and I know you can compete on Prince with ease. Now, this isnt the map to go up a level on, for sure, but Saladin was, Catherine was, and this series is probably the best place to try going up. Well, maybe LHC is better, since you are left alone to learn without worrying about the rest of the world, but this is the second best place.

    The thing you need to remember about going up a level is that its going to take longer to equalize. In all your games, you are usually in a totally dominating winning position by CS. If you move to Prince, you may have to practice a bit, but you can still be dominating by Lib. I know you can. All you need to do is streamline your game a little and you will be a solid Prince level player. Trust me.

    Heres an idea for you. Go back a couple NC's, and play one you have already played over again, up one level. Post brief reports in the thread, and I promise I will look over your games and offer tips. I have all the confidence in the world that you can play Prince, and I bet I am not the only one who reads your reports and feels that way.
     
  16. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

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    I'll take a bit of this map, not got the time, but stuff it.

    @Kaytie
    Spoiler :

    I'll just echo the other comments and add, you don't know how well you will do until you try. ;)


    Mon/Epic to 140BC
    Spoiler :

    Thought i'd give Monarch a go as i've not played much tectonic maps.

    Settled in place, WB,WB,War,Wrk,Settler,GLH
    Researched; Sailing,Mining,Maso,Myst, worker techs then Writing - Asestics.
    Settled for ivory cows,crabs and blocking, will settle on the silks for marble,gold,wheat,pigs. Coastal for crabs,gold.

    TMIT certainly likes his crabs ;)

    I'm happy to go minimalist on troops to start and also in REX speed, that barb nation seems to have the AI at war and unsure what to do.



    Got some horse, settled some good cities. Will take the copper next, crap city till Biology, but Civil will make it bearable.
    300BC get Faux Pax event, snooty Edwardian Queen. She also has the 'Mids, so i shall be popping in to London for tea with my Elepaults.



    170BC Vicky has Alpha, hooray, i can now wheeler dealer and take Monarchy from Asoka.



    Nappy had writing for Priest + Hunting,



    Felt a bit conned by some of those deals, i don;t like to have a rubbish tech for good one. Still this has boasted the tech postion massivily.

    World view;


    My plan is to send 3 chariots on the scout, build an army, Pyramids. Might rasie that southern barb city. Vicky settled the copper, but the iron NE of capitial saved the day.

     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    @ Bleys/Kaytie:

    Spoiler :


    Actually, my feeling after not just running worldbuilder spies to see everything to test, but actually PLAYING the map, at the difficulty I'm used to, is that this map IS one you can move up a difficulty on. As a reference, I lost (to cheese, but still a L) in noble Sal. Tectonics rapes the AI tech rate, getting anything like GLH or Mids on this map gives them little chance.

    Also note: While "super barb" might seem scary, don't forget this: MINOR CIVS CAN'T WIN. It could theoretically paste everyone else, and if you stay alive you'd win. On time :p. The whole point of the 2 hours of play test runs though was to make sure it wasn't a HUGE factor in the game, but that it actually survived long enough to do more than distract the player at the beginning ;).

    I doubt even a single player in this club has any trouble with "super barb" at all. I didn't place it to screw the player!
     
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    To 1830 AD/End:

    Spoiler :
    In the last segment I was massing cavalry. I switched a few cities to spies and focused on Asoka. Since I was pretty much running hammer economy by this point I went for intelligence agencies in my hammer cities also - these give fixed EP/turn on top of +50% which means with just them and courthouses (later jails once I got the tech) I'd be able to put up enough EP to constantly revolt AI cities and capture them easily.

    As the target is eventually everyone on the continent, I drum up old hatreds one last time, might as well make it easier right?



    Of course, he was only going to be :backstab: shortly after :devil:. Hammer cities with IND put up forges then the rest very quickly, and these are pretty well promoted units thanks to vicky settling GGs, getting some myself, and west point:



    The war goes pretty well, Asoka has grenadiers but no rifles. Rifles are the first thing in the game that actually counters cavalry. Grenadiers are a poor choice vs pinch cavs:



    By 1734 I had all his mainland cities. Yes, all of them. Keep churning spies in 2 cities, cavs in rest of the hammer cities, and just lower defenses/take. Vassal mechanics are crappy, he'd have taken it earlier but by removing napoleon's bordering of him he now won't:



    So I just take what I can get - he only has cities down where super barb is so it's not like it matters much:

    .

    Unfortunately, 1744 marks the end of "super barb". The AIs love dogpiling minor nations too much:



    The next target is one of the game's best warmongers, but his opening is pretty foul. I split my huge stack in 2 and station spies everywhere:





    Tech situation:



    This war is a little tougher - he's actually more backward than Asoka but Nap has the highest ibuildunitprob in the game - ahead of monty/gk and tied with shaka/ragnar/mehmed. The REAL problem, however, was all the hills. Hills are a big problem for cavalry. They steal the movement points, and siege and other nonsense can still hit them full strength. #'s here did much to assist.

    Izzy builds the SoL for me:



    She's his vassal, or was then broke free.

    I punt Nap from the continent, and unable to find him take capitulation...his lands:



    Ew culture pressure. Let's do something about that:





    Same old tactics.

    Pushing domination, I head for pericles after Izzy:



    More annoying hills. Pericles had rifles too but he was obviously vastly outnumbered. I'd started producing infantry but none saw action...they were about to when I tripped the limit, annoyingly the same turn they'd both have capitulated.







    Final power/tech:





    State property hammer spam cities! The key to this game was in the first segment and most of the 2nd - settling enough cities, and teching to a military lead over the AI. Note that the AI is terrible on this map, it isn't typical to get to cavalry and be able to use ONLY cavalry on four consecutive AIs to finish domination on emperor. This will, hopefully, give an idea of how to approach terra (well, one way) as well as to show that they're quite winnable.

    I used way more pictures than normal in the writeup and hopefully give enough insight through the important parts (up to MT and prepping the cuirasser war, and then going SP/hammers)...feel free to ask me anything though!


    Edit - little extra detail in the writeups for this NC relative to others - my hope is that between my game and Bleys' players get an idea of ways to approach tectonics and also that it's very beatable - the AIs don't adjust to it well.
     
  19. dubrown

    dubrown Prince

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    I'll give this one a go fairly soon, perhaps even tonight, I'll have my first successful offline Emperor game halfway done but I'm sure I'll win that one so I might put it on leave to do this one first. It'll be my first "Emperor light" attempt that'll reach the public here, so expect that I'll screw things up big time ;)
     
  20. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

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    Location:
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    110BC To 1300AD Mon/Epic

    Spoiler :



    As there are happiness issues, i slave a temple, have (i think) convereted to Judism. Overflow goes nicely to Glib, have marbnle connected. Will run capital as a GP farm later on.

    currency is in, heading to Constr


    take barb city with chariots, kept it, should have rasied in retro. i build catapults and swords. reserach HBR, build elephants as well.
    205AD - GS is born in london, vicky bulbs Phil.
    280 - trade currency for cal, askoa. he won;t trade wine for cash but then gifts it to me when i ask!! trade Curr for Col with Perc. Not much trading oppertunies.
    640 - Vicky builds AW and Chitzen. I'm building an army ;) i pop an Artisit at 4% odds, not best pleased, no education bulb. I use the GA as great work in New Y to get back the ivory, i am masing a stack of phants, swords,axes and catapults.

    some civic changes, HR & Bura


    745 - event for free MI, Merchant or priest. I take GM.



    Nappy DoW on Vicky, i'm happy for nappy. I bide my time for all Vickys units to be drawn to Hastings, the stack you see in the above s/s is mine, lurking in New York, jut across the border from London. :lol: Nappy has chariots and catapults, and few spears. He takes the city.



    835AD i DOW vicky take London. Big loses, majority of catapults, few eles.



    It takes me 100 years to rebuild my catapults, we have a stalemate till i take York, easily. I nearly took peace, as there were english crossbows running around. I've brute force researched Edu, used my 1000 surplus i had from the war build up.



    I take catanbury, i take peace here, i think i should have carried on looking back. Vicky immeadily trades me Machinary for Feudlism. usually i wouldn;t but i need machinery as i'm holding Lib at 1 turn and heading up the Chem line. I bulb PP, Chem as i have Nat Epic in captial.


    1350AD I take steel from Lib


    Have built a few CR2 maces, will run 0% slider and upgrade to Grens in 10 tunrs. Cannon are being produced, planning on taking 2 english cities and capituatling vicky. Rolling over Asoka, he has been ar war with Nappy on and off for a 1000 years, then i may take nappy with cav.

     

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