NCG 5-The Revenge of the Ottomans

[frob2900]

Frob came up with a plan involving animal husbandry that sounded good, so I went in that direction. I'm still hooking up copper, but peter doesn't even have copper in his borders.

Getting animal husbandry is never a bad idea when you have pigs in your capital. Often it also nets you chariots. However after you went down that road, obviously it would have been good to get the second pigs inside your second city. That's what I would have done.

I would have put the second at spices+copper+pigs, and the third (which I definitely would have had out by 1000 BC) would probably have nabbed oasis+copper+gold.

A granary in the capital is something I almost never do until I have a worker and a second city built. Pottery in this case would have been good for early floodplain cottages rather than an early granary.

Still, get some cities down ASAP. Get some axes and rush the AI. Then cottage spam and run some scientists, because your priority is janissaries. Get them while the AI is at longbows and you'll be strong (also, this is easy at Noble). If you manage to go Liberalism->Nationhood also, then you've won (or at least taken your continent).

[EDIT] I also see pigs to the southeast. You should also get them ASAP.

Also, as far as expansion goes: Three cities by 1000BC, four by 500BC, 6 by 1AD, 8 by 500AD and 10 by 1000AD is a good rule of thumb.

 

[Hackapell]

I've played the next round, will update tommorow...

 

[Hackapell]

Round 3: 910 BC to 40 BC
It took a while to update, I know, but I was having just one more turn syndrome with Shaka and his Impi
I started the round with a tech change:

I figured that since I was planning an axe-rush, you might as weel sprinkle in some cats and elephants to add more power.
Then I started to REX in the places I had mentioned:

Both good spots that will have food and valuable resources.
the war preparations were going smoothly, and my workers were hard at work creating road and improving the land, but suddenly, Peter got too greedy for his own good:

that was a small problem, but that just gave me a good excuse to attack, so I waited and reinforced my army.
Meanwhie I grabbed Alpha courtesy of a GS, since I had little idea which city will be my SSC:

and then I traded with Peter to grab:

and where was the iron? One source near the marble, and one right in Peter's territory:

Ah well. So much for not having any metal.
Next, I learned that I was rather large for a nation:

A turn later, I saw an archer make a move towards the leech on my turf:

you do understand, peter, that this means war?

I didn't think so.
I rushed through the tiny little border cities and captured my two main objectives, St. Petersburg and Novgorod. I also found time to settle probably my last city for a while:

and the round ended with the discovery of currency:

Now, at the end of the round, I went to see what Peter would offer for his country, but clearly, it wasn't his humor;

I love it when the game designers put something like that in the game. It adds flavor.
But seriously, here's what he'll offer:

Should I take it? My economy is about to crash and burn, but I have a 6-man stack waiting outside of Moscow. Should I attack first and then sue for peace? Or take the gold and tech and let him suffer with an outlandish city that will be a financial drain?

The state of the world to come, with more questions and thoughts.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

I'd say yes. It sounds like Moscow is a keeper, but you need time to build Courthouses and Markets to salvage your economy. You can always finish him later...

 

[alcaras]

A small question: Why are you still running at 100% research -- losing 26g a turn? My gut instinct (granted, I'm still new at BtS) is to turn down the slider to a break even point, small gain -- or worst comes to worse, a small/manageable bleed that you'll be able to staunch with courthouses and $$ buildings.

As for war, I'd say take Moscow and then see what Peter has to offer -- you'll gain some gold from capturing the city as well. Settle peace after that (he'll only have two relatively weak cities left), patch up your economy and then finish him off when your economy can deal with his remaining cities.

Thanks for posting these games -- it's informative and educational

 

[frob2900]

A small question: Why are you still running at 100% research -- losing 26g a turn? My gut instinct (granted, I'm still new at BtS) is to turn down the slider to a break even point, small gain -- or worst comes to worse, a small/manageable bleed that you'll be able to staunch with courthouses and $$ buildings.

Hackapell isn't playing BtS, he's playing Warlords 2.08.

 

[Hackapell]

A small question: Why are you still running at 100% research -- losing 26g a turn? My gut instinct (granted, I'm still new at BtS) is to turn down the slider to a break even point, small gain -- or worst comes to worse, a small/manageable bleed that you'll be able to staunch with courthouses and $$ buildings.

Yes, I am not playing with BtS; I'm working with a mac
Therefore, I have nothing to lose by losing all my gold; it just shaves off turns
from expensive techs so I don't have to wait forever for more tech while I repair my economy

Thanks for posting these games -- it's informative and educational

thank you!

 

[Hackapell]

State of the Continent: Round 3- Round 4
First, a look at our territory on the continent:

well, our empire doubled in size, but that's dragging down our economy. Also WW is taking a toll, so I suspect that the next few round will be economically-focused.
Peter's territory:

very small, and he has a far flung city near my area which will drain him, so he's a non-factor at this point.
The Domestic Advisor:

some libraries and some units, but I'll probably move towards more civilian build to prop up my economy.
Military advisor:

Our First GG is 8 XP's away, but I'm not sure if we'll get it in this war. If we do, what should we do with it? I haven't specialized my cities to any degree yet, and a medic 3 chariot would go unused. that's something to consider for later.
the tech tree to it's farthest point:

I'm thinking of doing just a little backfill, grabbing sailing and poly, then heading towards lit. that will give my economy time to recover and replenish.
The power graph:

War is good for the graph
and finally the demographics:

We've got plenty of food and pop. so we should grow like crazy soon.
Comments are appreciated.

 

[alcaras]

Hackapell isn't playing BtS, he's playing Warlords 2.08.

Ah, I didn't play very much Warlords -- what changed in BtS that made it bad to lose $$ whereas it wasn't that bad in Warlords?

 

[Hackapell]

[W]hat changed in BtS that made it bad to lose $$ whereas it wasn't that bad in Warlords?

The introduction of random events, mostly, just to deal with early-game calamities and other events.
In warlords though, there's no reason to max out the slider when beelining a tech; at this point I would have to drop my reaseach by at least half in order to reach parity.

 

[Hackapell]

I'm playing the next round; will update tonight...

 

[Hackapell]

Round 4: 40 BC to 445 AD
Lots of fun building and teching; a few suprises too.
I started with laying out a tech path:

CS is a good overall goal; Bureaucracy is very important and useful; and macemen are your go-to units of the medival era.I made a qiuck deviation to claim lit for the Glib and to open up the path to monarchy.
Next, Moscow fell:

and I sued for peace:

money and tech; niiiiice.
Also, all that fighting gave me my first GG:

I have't used him yet, since I'm unsure which city will be my HE city. Maybe Edrine? Something to think about.

after a while of scouting and building markets and courthouses; I saw some oddly-colored land. Guess who squatting on our land:

Great, a tech whore. This is going to be fun.

Did I mention I love this guy?
The round ended with the discovery of monarchy:

notice that I managed to push up my tech rate to about 40 %; not great, but good. More building will be necessary.
Things to think about:
Diplomacy: with MM and peter, both will be able to trade with me, but what will happen when I kill Peter? will MM stop trading with me? and where is he?????? should I sail around to find more of his buddies?
Economy: ther a small Barb city which I've surrounded, when should I take that? and when should I move against peter? around Janissaries?
This game is shawdoing The ALC 17 game eerielly; a nice size continent with one enemy and close trading partners. This should be very interesting.
Here's the save. Comment are welcomed.

 

[alcaras]

Looks interesting thus far! A tiny note: Machinery is needed to actually make Macemen... or at least it is in BtS. Not sure about Warlords

 

[a0161613]

I beleive ManMu's definition as a tech whore comes from his nature to tech trade between him and the player when no other civ is known.

Chances are, he has met someone.

If by any chance he does refuse to trade (when (not IF) you wipe Peter off the map, just divert to Optics after Civil Service and sent out three or four caravel in different directions.

 

[Hackapell]

A question (or three) before the next round;
1. I just realized that I have enough manpower to conquer Peter RIGHT NOW if I chose to. Should I? and if so, Which cities should I keep?
2. The Glib; Which city? Since we have marble, it could be any city. Moscow has great food potential and the hammers to get it done within the round, but I can't see the max food for all the cities. Any idea which city I should make my GP farm?
3. Walata, is it a threat? should I try to flip it? if so, sould I keep it? and what to do I MM sees fit to plop down morew cities on my east coast?
thoughts?

 

[Hackapell]

Round 5: 455 AD to 875 AD
Well, with no responses, I went ahead and answered my own questions
I started with some MM, and then, someone needed to be dealt with...

DIE PETER, DIE!
It was a short and splendid litle war:

And thus was Sisiutil avenged for having lost to the Russian bear.
I experience a great leap in economic prowess, so Bactrician was all mine:

It's a good city, and not just in terms of placement.
I stopped by to check in with Mansa, whom I heard from a writer was the most advanced civ.
That guy was right:

Unsuprisingly, MM is ahead, but not for long, thanks to this in Moscow!

then, I noticed something across the channel:

There he is! I promptly whipped a trireme and sent him that way. hopefully he'll find someone.
an event ensured that MM and I would be BFF:

Go religion! That will increase my happy cap to astronomical levels and MM will be very pleased with me for a long time.
The round ended with the discovery of CS:

for my tech, MM is willing to do this trade:

State of the continent coming shortly.

 

[nbcman]

Can you see if MM will trade HBR and Music for CS? Monotheism is a cheap tech that you can research it quickly yourself-unless you want a quick spam of Confucian missionaries now.

nbcman

 

[FeedBack]

I have another point here...
Why would you want Music? CS is a powerful tech to give to MM for no game-breaking advantage. The other two are too cheap for trading... If it was Machinery...

 

[Hackapell]

The State of the Continent: Round 5-Round 6
First, a three-part look at our continent:

Domestic advisor:

A mix of civilian and military builds; mostly in prep for Janissaries.
On the diplomatic front, an update on trades:

A pretty good deal, but should I get rid of Mono for gold?
military advisor:

a bit of a ways from our next GG, but the again, we need to do something with our first! should we settle him in Edrine, our best production city, or wait a bit longer and see what happens?
Tech screen:

I was thinking of beelining Engineering, then going Feudalism guilds and banking to pick up Gunpowder while our GS's bulb Philo, Paper, and Edu to grab lib and Nationalism.
Victory Conditions:

We're moving towards dom, but space race is always a possibility when semi-isolated. note that we have not settled the whole island.
Score:

Power:

MM's right up there with me, but I think I'm slightly ahead due to readiness for offensive war.

and Demos:

2nd in a lot, which is not bad at all, seeing as the leader is only slightly behind at this point.
Our plan for the next round will probably be teching to Janissaries, but we could always try something different.
I await your comments. Here's the save.

 

[Hackapell]

While you're all talking strategy I've played the next round, and will post tommorow
(There; I've said it. Now I'm commited)