Need help - coming over from CIV II

[Ghoster013]

Hey all, sorry if this is a pretty noob question but I've really tried to find this information out on my own, with no success.

I have started playing Civ IV recently (I DON'T have either expansion yet), after years of playing Civ II (I have yet to complete even my first game in Civ IV). In Civ II, one of the standard means of bursting a new city up to a more advanced state was to simply crank up the economy and purchase city improvements with gold. I'm not seeing that option in Civ IV and I'm wondering if I am simply missing the option as a function of UI mechanics - that is, I can't find the button on the city screen. Or that such an option has a particular scientific discovery or civic improvement that first must be discovered before the option becomes available.

Or, is it a matter where the mechanic has been completely removed from the game? I know I can open a civic where I can sacrifice population to rush a building so I'm hoping there is a similar option to purchase with gold.

Thanks for any help you can offer! I look forward to learning all the changes the game has to offer, though it seems pretty overwhelming right now. I started my first game on Prince, as I felt I was pretty experienced from Civ II and promptly got my arse waxed, so I started over, stepping down the level to the point that I'm now on Chieftain and think I will win my current game either by space race victory or simply reach the time victory in 2050.

 

[pianoman1242]

You can only rushbuy units/buildings/wonders while you are in the universal suffrage civic. You can switch into universal suffrage if:

• you have the democracy tech
  or
• you own the pyramids wonder (available with masonry)

you can also whip units/buildings/wonders if you are in slavery (reqs. bronze working)

Welcome to the Forums Ghoster013

 

[Ghoster013]

Thanks for the response, Pianoman1242! I just haven't reached deep enough in any of my game attempts yet to open the option. I have to say, its more then a little overwhelming having to relearn the whole wonders and improvements system due to discovery expirations. Whew, big learning curve ahead, but thanks for the help!

 

[oynaz]

Have to correct you Pianoman:

You can swich to Universal Suffrage if:

you have the democracy tech
OR
you own the pyramids wonder (available with masonry)

Just to clear things up

 

[henrebotha]

When you are in the city screen, you will see the button at the top of the panel which is located at the bottom-right of your screen, next to the minimap. It's the left button below the one that says "Draft".

 

[vanatteveldt]

There is a thread "tips for people who hate civ4":

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=135764

It's a bit outdated but it lists a number of points on which you'll have to change your strategy to adapt to the rule changes.

I think it was written back in the days where the common wisdom seemed to be "expand until your slider is 60%"; now it is "expand until you reach the point where you can only just get writing / currency / CoL and climb out of the maintenance hole and overtake the AI using your extra land"

Also: check out how siege works and don't underestimate great people and cottages

 

[NonPrayinMantis]

From someone who played a LOT of Civ II, let me give you some pointers on the differences.

Probably the most important difference from Civ2 is that roads do not provide trade. In fact, many useful tiles in the city radius will not provide any trade at all. The best way to increase trade in your cities will be to build cottages. Generally put these on grassland squares and use them (select them from the city manager screen) to let them grow. When they grow after use, they will provide more trade, up to a base of 4 trade. Fortunately you do not have to build caravans to create trade routes, these are generated automatically as you research different techs.

Governments are not the same. Now you do not have one type of government, you have civics. There are five different ones of these and they will do different things. For instance under monarchy in Civ2, you had moderate corruption, up to three happiness from police forces, and free support for three units. In Civ IV, there are certain civics that do similar things: monarchy gives 1 happy per police unit (an unlimited amount), vassalege gives additional support for units (which now require gold for support, not shields) and +2 experience for units (which are no longer just 'veterans' vs 'regular'). There is no corruption, but you do have city maintenance which increases with distance from the capitol and number of cities. The courthouse is similar in that it cuts maintenance in half.

The rush buying of stuff in cities now largely occurs by sacrificing population, not money. Choose the civic slavery to open up this option. I know this sounds weird and damaging at first but believe me it is quite useful. Population will grow back, especially when the city is small. As mentioned above, you can rush buy stuff using money, but the civic that makes this option open is not usually available until late game.

Also different is how setters and workers are produced. Settlers are used just for settling cities and workers are use just for improving tiles. When cities produce both of these, growth stops. The excess food is instead used to produce the unit, so a city that has large amounts of food, but a low amount of shields (now called hammers), can produce settlers and workers quickly, but other units slowly.

I mentioned promotions earlier, and this is where Civ IV really shines in my opinion. Now each individual unit picks up experience, either when made or when it wins battles, and this is used to promote the unit. Promotions make the unit better in combat. You can keep your units in stacks now safely, so do so. Each 'stack of doom' (what we call a stack of units for an invasion) should have units with different promotions. Shock increases strength (units no longer have attack and defense numbers - just one strength number - which also sort of includes its hit points) against melee units - swords, maces, axes, spears, pikes; cover against archery units - archers, longbows, crossbows; and formation against mounted units - chariots, horsemen, knights. You can also have promotions that do other things such as combat (increased overall strength), medic (for healing units faster), and sentry (increased sight radius).

Units also have certain strengths against other units. For instance, axemen (the earliest melee unit) have an inherent bonus versus other melee units. What this means is now you can't have successful warfare by only building one type of unit. Make sure you stack of doom can handle many unit types by including a couple of unit counters along with your main attack unit. Protect axemen from chariot attack by using spearmen.

I will post more when I get home from work.

NPM

 

[fed1943]

I also came from civ II.

What Mantrys said.

The big differences: roads (as said) civics (as said, just see them as partial govs, à la SMAC) resources (not just to the tile, but to all civ) culture (à la
civ III, but trickier, as without culture you cannot work the tile).

I bet you would love the last expansion, Beyond the Sword.

The only thing much worse about civ IV is the manual. You really need to read
some threads.

Best regards,

 

[vanatteveldt]

I concur with fed, BTS really does add quite a lot, and almost all discussions here assume BtS, so you have a better fit with the community.

You should be able to get it cheap somewhere off ebay or something...

 

[civvver]

Biggest thing to learn is food is more important than anything else. Remember in civ2 when a site with 14 grasslands and 6 hills was a beautiful thing? Not so in civ4, you won't have enough food with resourceless grasslands to feed your city and work the mined hills. You need food resources for a good city.

Also build tons of cottages.

 

[jollycynic]

Thanks for the response, Pianoman1242! I just haven't reached deep enough in any of my game attempts yet to open the option. I have to say, its more then a little overwhelming having to relearn the whole wonders and improvements system due to discovery expirations. Whew, big learning curve ahead, but thanks for the help!

one thing to keep in mind is that whipping production sacrifices population and will generate unhappiness (though if you city is big enough for crowding to cause unhappiness too, then the whipping can actually counter overcrowding unhappiness leaving you in the clear overall)

 

[vanatteveldt]

I agree, food and whipping are important and easy to overlook!

I use the following rules of thumb to whip:

- whip monument (if not stonehenge/creative/religion) and granary asap
- try not to stack whip unhapiness, that is inefficient.
- If a city regrows too fast and has no good mines etc., build a settler or worker or lend food tiles to a neighbouring city
- try to whip multiple pop
- whip the last building before starting a wonder with max overflow

 

[Artichoker]

Hey all, sorry if this is a pretty noob question but I've really tried to find this information out on my own, with no success.

I have started playing Civ IV recently (I DON'T have either expansion yet), after years of playing Civ II (I have yet to complete even my first game in Civ IV). In Civ II, one of the standard means of bursting a new city up to a more advanced state was to simply crank up the economy and purchase city improvements with gold. I'm not seeing that option in Civ IV and I'm wondering if I am simply missing the option as a function of UI mechanics - that is, I can't find the button on the city screen. Or that such an option has a particular scientific discovery or civic improvement that first must be discovered before the option becomes available.

Welcome to the forum! I'm also a fan of Civ II (and also Civ I), and I agree that many game features are now gone in Civ IV. For example, you can no longer stockpile Caravans in anticipation for building that big wonder like Hoover Dam or Bach's Cathedral...

In Civ IV, there are 2 ways to rush-buy city builds: 1) using gold and 2) using population. Option 1) requires having the Universal Suffrage civic, and Option 2) requires having the Slavery civic.

Slavery is unlocked with Bronze Working, a very early tech, whereas Universal Suffrage is unlocked with Democracy, which comes much later in the game.

Or, is it a matter where the mechanic has been completely removed from the game? I know I can open a civic where I can sacrifice population to rush a building so I'm hoping there is a similar option to purchase with gold.

Thanks for any help you can offer! I look forward to learning all the changes the game has to offer, though it seems pretty overwhelming right now. I started my first game on Prince, as I felt I was pretty experienced from Civ II and promptly got my arse waxed, so I started over, stepping down the level to the point that I'm now on Chieftain and think I will win my current game either by space race victory or simply reach the time victory in 2050.

There is indeed a significant learning curve. The main thing you have to learn is managing the size of your empire. But from your description, it seems like you are learning this pretty well.

 

[nanomage]

yes, stockpiling caravans was nice
but it was broken too - most of your cities just built nothing but caravans/freights.
I find cIV (with BtS) to be much more balanced.
there's also the third possibility to rush production, and that's why i post.
It is chppoing trees (since bronze working, boosts +50% with mathamatics). Chopping a forest which is in your city's cultural borders gives it instant +60 (+90 with Maths) hammers on Marathon speed. This boost is multiplied as well as regular city production.

 

[Joshua368]

there's also the third possibility to rush production, and that's why i post.
It is chppoing trees (since bronze working, boosts +50% with mathamatics). Chopping a forest which is in your city's cultural borders gives it instant +60 (+90 with Maths) hammers on Marathon speed. This boost is multiplied as well as regular city production.

You can also chop forests outside your cultural borders for hammers, although you get signifigantly less. Usually you'll want to wait until your culture covers the tile, but if you see a forest outside a newborn non-creative civ's city you can move a worker over there and chop the forest before their culture covers it, stealing their hammers.

 

[Supr49er]

May I recommend studying at the War Academy?

And Sisiutil's Strategy Guide is a must read.

Welcome to the Forums Ghoster013.

 

[Skallagrimson]

I came from Civ II and ...relearn everything from scratch!!!

Some of my stupidest habits, I've found, were Civ II hold-overs. "Hey, this battleship won't attack a land unit!" :::slaps forehead:::

 

[pianoman1242]

Have to correct you Pianoman:

You can swich to Universal Suffrage if:

you have the democracy tech
OR
you own the pyramids wonder (available with masonry)

Just to clear things up

Oops!
I'll edit my post

 

[Ghoster013]

WOW WOW! So much help! All appreciated very much!

I think its beginning to dawn on me that the old Civ II gold buying spending sprees, though possible in Civ IV to some extent are always going to be mostly impractical as it seems like the economy is never going to be a virtual river of unending gold like it could be in Civ II. Perhaps by the time Universal Suffrage opens up my economy will have some decent momentum but certainly not early in the game, should I schoose to open up the option by building the pyramid. I'm sometimes forced to spend some monies on keeping my neighbors at bay and the rest to upgrade troops, though I concede those decisions may be a result of my current inferior play style. Is it better to spend a few turns producing a fresh unit then spending the money to upgrade one? But what would I spend the gold on if not used for unit upgrades? My head is swimming.

Its so much different. No longer do you simply spam irrigate large chunks of land to max your cities, and its still weird realizing some land is basically useless and will always be that way. But that's ok, its clearly meant to produce a deeper game experience. And on that same note, I suspect I'm not likely to see a string of 25 population super cities dotting my controlled lands. I have a lot of old game concepts to shed...

I have already scanned Sisiutil's Strategy Guide, but its still a little too technical for me as I don't have enough experience with all the various units, and I'm still trying to avoid conflict right now and just focus on learning to streamline my cities and economy and begin to explore the power of religion.

I'm headed to the War Academy now! All of the above comments have been extremely helpful though they have opened a ton of new questions I have a strong suspicion I'll have a copy of BtS pretty soon!

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

aww I miss civ2. I still think the civ2 wonder movies and especially the advisory council are BETTER than anything new they put in civ3 or 4.

About gold. Having a big bank of gold but no US for rush buying stuff still have uses. One is for trading/bribing civs. Another is for upgrades. And another is to just have enough gold to afford upping science slider a lil bit higher and run at a negative for a lil while. (In bts having a gold stash also helpful for random events. Some events off choices of what can happen and some of the choices cost gold so if you dont have enough gold for that specific chopice it wont be available to you)

It DEFINITELY more efficent in to just build a new unit than to upgrade BUT there is reason for wanting to upgrade you just dont want upgrade EVERY single unit u have. MAINLY you want to upgrade you most highly promoted units. That combat1 cr3 mace you will want to upgrade to rifle or grenadier on up to infantry whenever option comes availabe. That lil blank warrior you made in like 3000 bc to garrison second city you ever built then never used again it better off just building a new unit.

One thing to be careful about upgrading is experience of units upgraded. If a unit has more than 10 exp and is upgraded its exp drops back to 10. Now for unit under 10, or like say only 11 or 12 exp that no biggie. But say a unit with like 50 exp and next level is at 65 then dropping back down to 10 means that unit is NEVER gonna be promted again. So if you have a unit you want to promote but is like 1 or 2 exp point from next level then sometimes you want to wait til it level ups THEN upgrade him.

Also some types of units have access to certain promotions that others dont. Namely gunpowder units can NOT get CR promotions. What some ppl like to do is get tech that lets you build grenadiers instead of riflig cuz that lets you still be able to build maces. Then they build maces and give CR promos then upgrade em then and their to grenadiers.

And yeah city size is waaaay smaller on avg then in civ2 or 3. Basically just subtract 10 from what you normally think of. Like a size 15 city in civ is bout like size 25 city in civ2 or 3. But thats not all that bad really. Since you dont really expect cities to grow THAT huge (well good players dont I still LOVE building big huge cities but I am not THAT good a player hehe) overlapping cities BFC isnt THAT big a deal. Also specialists are SO much more powerful lots of time a size 15 city with 5 of that op running as scientists or merchants and stagnating would do your empire better than if those 5 were working tiles and city was growing.

Anyways dont get scared once you get hang of it civ 4 can be TONS of fun and sometimes JUST figuring stuff out is fun

Kaytie