[BTS] Need Help on Monarch
- Thread starter crashmon
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crashmon
Warlord
I think you could take my turn 1 save and convert it into a WB save, then play as Charlie....
Fish Man
Emperor
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crashmon
Warlord
you going to try it on Deity, although with all that land might have a struggle with a runaway AI....
Also don't forget to settle your named city on the island to the north of Charlie
Also don't forget to settle your named city on the island to the north of Charlie
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crashmon
Warlord
In the year of AD1500, Mighty Hammurabi, sat in his palace in Bablyon, and looked at the plains below. The situation was grim, from the norh west the city of Nippur had just fallen, and Eyption Cavalry was moving in. On the south West after the fall of Akkad, a 2nd Army of Egyption Cavalry was also approaching... Between these two might Armies, Bablyon was sure to fall.
Hammy turned around and look at Pharoah's envoy Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh in his hand had the surrender document ready for Hammy to sign
"I have no choice do I , lord Gilgamesh, this is the only way to save beautiful Bablyon" whimpered Hammurabi
Gilgamesh looked at Hammy in sympathy, he 100 years earlier had also to accept these terms "Yes Lord Hammurabi, this is your only option or face destruction, sign the document and Pharoah has assured me Bablyon will be spared, and we need you to foucs your forces onto boats to attack the heathen Spanish"
So the babylonian empire became the latest domino to fall, and Egypt now ruled 2 continents. Only Spain and Rome stood before Pharaoh and the world.
Took me 5 turns to cap him, could have been quicker if I had my ships (as could have taken coastal cities when I declared), but I have them loaded and ready for Spain (should attack spain in 2-3 turns). Only lost 1 or 2 Cav's, so when I attack spain, I'll swing the ships south to pick up this army, and then move into position for Rome. I think I should cap rome in 2-3 turns after Sapin goes down, hopefully spain will only be 2-3 turns as well, as am going to hit all costal cities and Madrid at the same time, then hit Seville turn after if she does not cap after I take all coastal.
Save attached
Hammy turned around and look at Pharoah's envoy Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh in his hand had the surrender document ready for Hammy to sign
"I have no choice do I , lord Gilgamesh, this is the only way to save beautiful Bablyon" whimpered Hammurabi
Gilgamesh looked at Hammy in sympathy, he 100 years earlier had also to accept these terms "Yes Lord Hammurabi, this is your only option or face destruction, sign the document and Pharoah has assured me Bablyon will be spared, and we need you to foucs your forces onto boats to attack the heathen Spanish"
So the babylonian empire became the latest domino to fall, and Egypt now ruled 2 continents. Only Spain and Rome stood before Pharaoh and the world.
Spoiler Hammy :
Took me 5 turns to cap him, could have been quicker if I had my ships (as could have taken coastal cities when I declared), but I have them loaded and ready for Spain (should attack spain in 2-3 turns). Only lost 1 or 2 Cav's, so when I attack spain, I'll swing the ships south to pick up this army, and then move into position for Rome. I think I should cap rome in 2-3 turns after Sapin goes down, hopefully spain will only be 2-3 turns as well, as am going to hit all costal cities and Madrid at the same time, then hit Seville turn after if she does not cap after I take all coastal.
Save attached
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A lot of little bookkeeping/tidying up you could do if you want to. Since you're at most 10 turns from winning this game I suspect it makes literally zero actual difference at this point; the limit at this point is simply movement times, and nothing you produce from here on out in your cities is likely to even reach the front in time to matter. But in case it ends up relevant information for future games, I'm gonna give a quick glance over the empire.
Almost all of your cities could be producing more hammers than they are right now; workshop for plains cottage in Krikav, workshop for engineer specialist in Coanda, coast for mine and workshop in Lymond, coast for mine in NZ, grass cottage for plains cottage in Gumbolt, coast for mine in Jnebbe, idle citizens for workshop and plains in Etruscan, and so forth. There's also a few of your more recently-conquered cities with some baffling tile decisions probably due to not checking their tile assignments again when the borders popped - e.g., Lagash is not working its bananas or clams, and is instead working 1F2C coastal tiles while starving.
As you move into State Property in games you don't expect to end within 3-4 turns of unlocking it, you often give up on slavery entirely - throw down workshops almost everywhere, sit in Caste System all the time. In this case it doesn't really matter of course.
You're getting a lot of theaters in new cities, and it's not necessary. Vassals will never take tiles away from their suzerain's culture, even if it's 99% vassal culture and 1% ruler culture. Culture isn't useless - nice for pushing down "yearn to join the motherland" unhappiness or expanding borders to get domination victory land - but it's a pretty small benefit. 50 hammers isn't a huge cost, but it's something. You've gotten about a dozen theaters, which could instead (for example) be about another handful of cavalry - maybe enough to win the game a turn earlier, or in a more competitive game win a war that would otherwise be a stalemate - or possibly enough added wealth to research Communism a turn earlier. Another turn of State Property (worth ~400 gold right there) and in a more competitive game getting to it a turn earlier might mean winning that free Great Spy.
It's also worth it to check when you conquer a new city if any particularly important buildings got lost on conquest. For example, Augsburg has no granary.
If you were not on the verge of winning, you'd probably be looking for an opportunity to get more workers for the State Property transition some time around now - get more workshops laid down faster, since you have a lot of workable tiles that could benefit from some worker attention. As it is, of course, by the time you could build the worker and the worker could make a workshop the game will probably be over anyways; it's something that would pay for itself on a ~20-turn time frame, and you're going to win in ~10 turns.
You can make some small gains from trades with AIs. Open Borders with Hammurabi, 70 gold in tribute from Charlemagne.
Frigates should be moving to cover the Galleons; that is their purpose in life now. Maybe they were already headed that way, not sure.
I don't know where that rifleman on board your galleons came from, but he's ugly and I don't like him.
Almost all of your cities could be producing more hammers than they are right now; workshop for plains cottage in Krikav, workshop for engineer specialist in Coanda, coast for mine and workshop in Lymond, coast for mine in NZ, grass cottage for plains cottage in Gumbolt, coast for mine in Jnebbe, idle citizens for workshop and plains in Etruscan, and so forth. There's also a few of your more recently-conquered cities with some baffling tile decisions probably due to not checking their tile assignments again when the borders popped - e.g., Lagash is not working its bananas or clams, and is instead working 1F2C coastal tiles while starving.
As you move into State Property in games you don't expect to end within 3-4 turns of unlocking it, you often give up on slavery entirely - throw down workshops almost everywhere, sit in Caste System all the time. In this case it doesn't really matter of course.
You're getting a lot of theaters in new cities, and it's not necessary. Vassals will never take tiles away from their suzerain's culture, even if it's 99% vassal culture and 1% ruler culture. Culture isn't useless - nice for pushing down "yearn to join the motherland" unhappiness or expanding borders to get domination victory land - but it's a pretty small benefit. 50 hammers isn't a huge cost, but it's something. You've gotten about a dozen theaters, which could instead (for example) be about another handful of cavalry - maybe enough to win the game a turn earlier, or in a more competitive game win a war that would otherwise be a stalemate - or possibly enough added wealth to research Communism a turn earlier. Another turn of State Property (worth ~400 gold right there) and in a more competitive game getting to it a turn earlier might mean winning that free Great Spy.
It's also worth it to check when you conquer a new city if any particularly important buildings got lost on conquest. For example, Augsburg has no granary.
If you were not on the verge of winning, you'd probably be looking for an opportunity to get more workers for the State Property transition some time around now - get more workshops laid down faster, since you have a lot of workable tiles that could benefit from some worker attention. As it is, of course, by the time you could build the worker and the worker could make a workshop the game will probably be over anyways; it's something that would pay for itself on a ~20-turn time frame, and you're going to win in ~10 turns.
You can make some small gains from trades with AIs. Open Borders with Hammurabi, 70 gold in tribute from Charlemagne.
Frigates should be moving to cover the Galleons; that is their purpose in life now. Maybe they were already headed that way, not sure.
I don't know where that rifleman on board your galleons came from, but he's ugly and I don't like him.
crashmon
Warlord
Lagesh has just come out of culture this turn, I finished the war then saved without checking the other cities, thats why its all over the place...
Your right about the other cities, I think my army is large enough now for both Spain and Rome, hence why I started to build some other items in some cities. My Frigates are on the way north to join my Galleons, as Izzy does have a large fleet, and am building more.
Will check my new cities.
Your right about the other cities, I think my army is large enough now for both Spain and Rome, hence why I started to build some other items in some cities. My Frigates are on the way north to join my Galleons, as Izzy does have a large fleet, and am building more.
Will check my new cities.
When in doubt, build wealth. That's the default build if you're really not sure what to build somewhere (like if you've realized more cavalry won't be helpful). Particularly in a situation like this where you're nearing a really impactful tech (such as Communism) but your economy is barely handling upkeep costs and your stored gold is going to run dry a little short of that tech.
If you press F2 to bring up the financial adviser and mouse-over the city maintenance entry, you can see a more detailed breakdown of where the money is going. Right now you're paying 197 gold per turn in distance maintenance, and 228 gold per turn in colonial expenses. Eshnunna and Mari are going to increase that by another 80 or so as they leave revolt in a few turns. Then that gets increased 42% by inflation (another thing you can check in the f2 financial advisor), so every turn earlier that you get State Property is going to be about 700 gold saved on reduced city maintenance. Plus, of course, the benefits of +1 food workshops/watermills and +10% hammers in all cities, but right now you aren't working that many workshops/watermills; those benefits are probably comparable to the cost of losing 1 trade route per city from leaving Free Market, so let's call it an even 700 gold per turn value initially.
If you stick with your current builds, you'll get Communism about 6 turns from now. If you had every city build wealth immediately, you'd get it in 3 turns (personally, I'd leave at least Aachen on the Bank build and your 0-culture cities on culture, but I'd probably shift everywhere else). Putting around 900 hammers into building wealth will not only get you the 900 gold directly produced; it also saves you 700 gold per turn for 3 turns, an extra 2100 gold saved for a total of 3000 gold added from those 900 hammers. That's better than 3 gold per hammer, an absurdly good exchange rate.
If you press F2 to bring up the financial adviser and mouse-over the city maintenance entry, you can see a more detailed breakdown of where the money is going. Right now you're paying 197 gold per turn in distance maintenance, and 228 gold per turn in colonial expenses. Eshnunna and Mari are going to increase that by another 80 or so as they leave revolt in a few turns. Then that gets increased 42% by inflation (another thing you can check in the f2 financial advisor), so every turn earlier that you get State Property is going to be about 700 gold saved on reduced city maintenance. Plus, of course, the benefits of +1 food workshops/watermills and +10% hammers in all cities, but right now you aren't working that many workshops/watermills; those benefits are probably comparable to the cost of losing 1 trade route per city from leaving Free Market, so let's call it an even 700 gold per turn value initially.
If you stick with your current builds, you'll get Communism about 6 turns from now. If you had every city build wealth immediately, you'd get it in 3 turns (personally, I'd leave at least Aachen on the Bank build and your 0-culture cities on culture, but I'd probably shift everywhere else). Putting around 900 hammers into building wealth will not only get you the 900 gold directly produced; it also saves you 700 gold per turn for 3 turns, an extra 2100 gold saved for a total of 3000 gold added from those 900 hammers. That's better than 3 gold per hammer, an absurdly good exchange rate.
crashmon
Warlord
Turn 215 :- 1525 AD, 2 turns after declaring, Spain Capitulates.
Am in SP, so lots more money, researching Biology (I know it should be something else, but want to see one turn of national park in Aksum). War is won anyway
Galleons are on way south to get main army
Army which took spain are now on way to Santigo, to gather once I go for Rome
Rome should take no more than 2 turns once I have everything in place
Probably 7 or so turns now before I can declare, delay will be getting galleons south to get my army from Hammy's cities, then north into Rome and its other cities
Am in SP, so lots more money, researching Biology (I know it should be something else, but want to see one turn of national park in Aksum). War is won anyway
Galleons are on way south to get main army
Army which took spain are now on way to Santigo, to gather once I go for Rome
Rome should take no more than 2 turns once I have everything in place
Spoiler Izzy :
Probably 7 or so turns now before I can declare, delay will be getting galleons south to get my army from Hammy's cities, then north into Rome and its other cities
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Looks like 4 turns to declaring and 5 turns to victory to me. 3 turns moving your galleons to the southern coast. 1 turn declaring, moving up, and unloading on Setia / Caesaragusta / Arpinum. Land-based Cavalry get Cumae and Mediolanum at the same time the naval cavalry get the coastal cities; 5 cities ought to be plenty to cap him.
Might have to keep playing a turn or two after victory if you want to see National Park in Aksum.
Might have to keep playing a turn or two after victory if you want to see National Park in Aksum.
crashmon
Warlord
In the year AD1565, Jules Finally Capitulates. Took 3 turns to get him
Thank you for a wonderful and enjoyable month of Civ..... The two main guys who shadowed me to the end
Also to the others who have contributed throughout the thread
Save is attched, just before I speak to Jules and cap him
- Turn 1 took 5 cities and killed about 8 units he had in a stack, but he still had a lot of units so did not cap
- Turn 2 killed more units, moved close to Rome and Arretium
- Turn 3 used spy to revolt rome, took Rome and Arretium, and he caps
Spoiler Screens :
Thank you for a wonderful and enjoyable month of Civ
..... The two main guys who shadowed me to the endAlso to the others who have contributed throughout the thread
- Krikav
- Sampsa
- Fippy (Mylene)
- Gumbolt
- Fish Man
- Jnebbe
- Noble Zarkon
Save is attched, just before I speak to Jules and cap him
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- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 25,115
Congrats on your victory, crash. Nice win and I think you learned a lot. in the process.
I realize you were learning a lot during this game. Listening to a lot of advice and trying to apply it all. I believe though that, as a result, the overload could be a bit overwhelming, which lead to mistakes in micro and just missing the details. The one thing I would emphasize the most moving forward is more attention to detail. During your game, the one thing that stood out to me is city management. Cities were often not in the best state they could be given the situation. I recommend focusing more on micro-ing your cities each turn. Also, this includes better worker management - just overall better decision making with them. However, I think you learned a lot about better worker management and applied much of it successfully. Worker management is really one of the major facets of success with this game.
In addition, keep closing monitoring the situation with the AIs, especially trades and diplo. That includes resource trading as well.
Making the most of good city placement and tile sharing is another important concept that I think you really picked up in this game.
Looking forward to your next game. Maybe another Monarch game on a Pangaea map for a little more focus on early diplo. Then step up to Emperor.
I realize you were learning a lot during this game. Listening to a lot of advice and trying to apply it all. I believe though that, as a result, the overload could be a bit overwhelming, which lead to mistakes in micro and just missing the details. The one thing I would emphasize the most moving forward is more attention to detail. During your game, the one thing that stood out to me is city management. Cities were often not in the best state they could be given the situation. I recommend focusing more on micro-ing your cities each turn. Also, this includes better worker management - just overall better decision making with them. However, I think you learned a lot about better worker management and applied much of it successfully. Worker management is really one of the major facets of success with this game.
In addition, keep closing monitoring the situation with the AIs, especially trades and diplo. That includes resource trading as well.
Making the most of good city placement and tile sharing is another important concept that I think you really picked up in this game.
Looking forward to your next game. Maybe another Monarch game on a Pangaea map for a little more focus on early diplo. Then step up to Emperor.
Looking at the game, you would've won this game on immortal doing the exact same things you did. IMO next game should be at least emperor.Congrats on the win!
I think you've got most of the big concepts at this point; keeping track of all the details and eking every last hammer out of optimizing things always leaves room for improvement of course. A game as a leader who is not Industrious, not Spiritual, and not isolated or semi-isolated would be a good follow-up if you decide to run another.
I think you've got most of the big concepts at this point; keeping track of all the details and eking every last hammer out of optimizing things always leaves room for improvement of course. A game as a leader who is not Industrious, not Spiritual, and not isolated or semi-isolated would be a good follow-up if you decide to run another.
Congrats to a well deserved win!
Many shadow games tend to die out around T100, so you did a great job ironing on to the end.
Special gold star to @lymond and @coanda for continuing to give detailed hints all throughout!
Good to have an entire game on monarch written out, might serve other aspiring players as a reference in the future too.
Many shadow games tend to die out around T100, so you did a great job ironing on to the end.
Special gold star to @lymond and @coanda for continuing to give detailed hints all throughout!
Good to have an entire game on monarch written out, might serve other aspiring players as a reference in the future too.
crashmon
Warlord
Yea, I found an old Monarch Student Map I like the look of, on Augustus on a Pangea map. Going to take a break for a couple of days, then might start that one.
crashmon
Warlord
Yea, I did learn a lot, especially on
- Early game worker movements (I need much more practice on this), and city placements
- How to prepare for a run at a golden age (and generate GPP during this time), making sure you have a full food bar before you start it, so you can starve the cities to get the GPP. It showed me I was using GPP completely wrong in previous games and golden ages as well.
- What to focus on during a war, how to quickly cap other civ's... I did a lot better on capping Izzy and Rome than I did on Charlie
- I do need to keep an eye on cities during a war, so much going on to watch, so will need to keep lazer eye on that one
- Also I need more practice on using Spy's I think, also on specialist cities, when to use those.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/monarch-student-ii-augustus-caesar.333938/
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