[BTS] Need Help on Monarch

[krikav]

Good points @crashmon
Fishing could be delayed since a possible second city by gold/fish can contribute even w/o fishing. However, fishing does unlock the lake too. (And is that a lake in the west around the pig too...?)
But most likely, BW is a good choice for the next tech. Had we not have gold, things would have been different. AH->BW is something that can be problematic commerce wise.

Not that much need to overspeculate that tech-path at this point though, much more info will be at hand once AH is done.
I think I would make a clockwise circle around the capital with the warrior, diverging from that path if something interesting shows up.
Apart from that fish-spot, sites that can still reach and borrow the capitals pigs, are posible spots for second city.

 

[crashmon]

OK, I have played a couple of turns (just until turn 8 to get first culture pop to reveal a little more map), and we have this.

Spoiler More Map :

So we have more food here, but north looks like Tundra. We have another river to the West as well, so option is to move warrior a little more west before coming back east. Could have two cities to the west here on sharing corn + pigs, and one with corn + FP + clam, but optimal city placement is one area I need help with. I also think we will have copper or iron on one of the hills directly west of cap looking at what has been revealed

Will pause it here for discussion, then will move warrior based on feedback... Don't want to rush this

 

[krikav]

Your warrior should have gone one more tile out toward the coast before doing the circle. You wanted more info about the map there, to decide if on the desert tile was best, or if on the floodplain was best, or if 1S of gold was best.
The area is nicely fogbusted by culture, so you could send next warrior there to check, but it makes planning abit more annoying to now know.

I would from this position move warrior W -> SW (to the hill) then possibly doing some movement around the lake (good vision over lakes).
Then possibly south around the lake and then into that forest.
Possibly backtracking to check all of the coast in the south after that.

 

[crashmon]

Your warrior should have gone one more tile out toward the coast before doing the circle. You wanted more info about the map there, to decide if on the desert tile was best, or if on the floodplain was best, or if 1S of gold was best.
The area is nicely fogbusted by culture, so you could send next warrior there to check, but it makes planning abit more annoying to now know.

I'm keeping the saves from each post so I could go back to the turn 2 save and do this (I'm intending after we complete this game to replay the map and correct any mistakes I'm making while playing it first time in this thread).

I'll wait for our US contributers to post before doing any more moves.... My thinking is after worker is completed, to next build a warrior to explore to the east.

 

[coanda]

With your initial warrior scout, the priority is identifying city locations. You want to prioritize places that are near the capital and have plenty of surplus food. Any time you see a good food resource (like that corn), you should be thinking "there's probably a city I can settle somewhere around here" so it pays to spend an extra turn or two checking the area more closely to figure out where in that vicinity the city goes. That fish southeast of the capital is going to support a city. That corn west of the capital is going to support a city. Which means when you see a resource like that somewhere reasonably close to your capital, it pays to spend an extra turn or two scouting a little bit further in the immediate vicinity. It would be nice to know what's on the tile 5S of the capital, because that affects whether you want to settle 3S1E or 3S2E. It would be nice to know what's 6/7W of your capital, because that affects where you might want to put a city near that corn.

In general, "stay close to the capital" is a good rule of thumb for your initial scouting warrior. But you can bend it a little when you think you're near a city site.

 

[krikav]

I'm keeping the saves from each post so I could go back to the turn 2 save and do this (I'm intending after we complete this game to replay the map and correct any mistakes I'm making while playing it first time in this thread).

I'll wait for our US contributers to post before doing any more moves.... My thinking is after worker is completed, to next build a warrior to explore to the east.

If you are to go back and correct for all tiny errors, this might take a while.
The important thing is that you understand why I think your warrior movement where abit off. (@coanda explains it good too).

 

[crashmon]

I think its because I try and move with a warrior only on Hills / forests (maybe watching too much Lain deity vids), incase I move next to a barb archer and I'm on plains or grassland. But probably should not worry about this early game as it would be wolves etc which I should win in a fight

 

[sampsa]

Animals are generated after T5. Archers on monarch... probably around T30 or so. You are correct in that moving to forests/hills is good, when possible, after T5.

 

[sampsa]

I ran a test game and it seems that on monarch, animals start disappearing around T40 and warriors/archers start to spawn.

 

[crashmon]

We now on turn 11, and just about ready for next tech....

Thinking to go Mining now as

• need it for BW and
• will want to mine the gold at some point (probably after pasture on pig)

Spoiler Current Map :

Have moves SW to scout around the new river / lake, but was slowed a turn owing to wolf.... Hopefully as I am on a Hill will win the fight if it attacks

 

[krikav]

Yepp, mining next sounds pretty obvious. What would be an alternative...?
Curious about horses now!

 

[crashmon]

lol got to love this game

So I played one more tun as I think all will agree Mining is next tech to take, and it will reveal horses but

Spoiler Barbs !!!!! :

The barb lion killed my warrior....
However I do have horses

So we have 2 considerations
Build Order
So after I build the worker, considering I have no units do I go

• warrior => settler
• warrior => warrior => Settler

City Placement

• West for the corn / pigs
• South for gold / fish
• East for horses (however we need more scouting over there)

This I think needs discussion (it probably on deity would be a remap lol), but on Monarch should not be game ending

 

[sampsa]

I don't understand how you ended up in the position (lion/warrior) in T11 screenshot?

 

[crashmon]

I was 1E of the lion on T10, but moved on the hill to the SW thinking that the hill defence bonus would be enough. I should have moved back east as then would have been out of range

 

[crashmon]

I do have the earlier save so I can correct the mistake if needed

 

[krikav]

Oh, I lose my starting unit in the early game from time to time too. Sometimes you just need to do some checking.
Thats another reason I love agg, the c1 on the warrior helps abit.
You do need scouting in all 3 directions really. Need to map out the coast around the fish too.

But now when you are one warrior short, you abit more vunerable, so the fish/gold spot scores a point because it's safe and sound.
Far from game-ending mistake, you got a superb capital there

I take fights with animals on two occasions, either when I'm sure I'll win (forested hill), or I attack them on flatland to gain alot of XP (high risk+high reward).
Your move here I think is a small error, you took a larger risk for no real benefit.

 

[sampsa]

Yep, not much to gain in that fight. I do take some fights with animals, but not without being in the forest. Just move the warrior back and try to find a different route. You have quite a lot of time before actually settLing the 2nd city.

 

[crashmon]

Lesson learned

Went back to turn 9 save, and played to turn 12...

Still have warrior now, am going to come back round cap and look to the east where horses are

Spoiler Turn 12 Map :

we have a lot of FP to the west so looks good for a third or 4th city spot when I go out that way.

based on new map, my thinking is

• come back south east then east in scouting (so we see around horses)
  
• Build a 2nd warrior once worker is finished
• First job for worker is to pasture pigs

Also that spot north west of Cap also looks a nice city spot, has corn+clam for food, at least 3FP for cottages and 3 hills for production.

I think just on what I am seeing I can get at least 4 good cities here just in what has been uncovered so far

 

[krikav]

I think worker should do it like this:
Pasture pigs, then go 1S of capital and road that tile (costs 2 turns) but those two turns are gained back when moving to the cow next, and then moving to the gold.
Think that road, pigs+cows+gold is 20 turns, which leaves some spare turns before BW is in...?
I think I would prefer to road more, rathern than to mine the PH after that.

 

[crashmon]

I think worker should do it like this:
Pasture pigs, then go 1S of capital and road that tile (costs 2 turns) but those two turns are gained back when moving to the cow next, and then moving to the gold.
Think that road, pigs+cows+gold is 20 turns, which leaves some spare turns before BW is in...?
I think I would prefer to road more, rathern than to mine the PH after that.

my thinking is that we could start road to 2nd city site (might not complete it, as when BW is in might want to chop settler out first), as if we do put 2nd city south or east no river route so would need a road to hook it up