crashmon
Warlord
Ok, Please check save 
.... Have those cities on Max right now, so hopefully ready for Golden age mark 2
.... Have those cities on Max right now, so hopefully ready for Golden age mark 2
[BTS] Need Help on Monarch
- Thread starter crashmon
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lol...you continue to run that PH in Sampsa ..yet remove the iron - the best tile in that city. Adjust that city please and if anything remove the lake, ph, plains farm. City can run 4 merchants or 3+engi for now.
Everything fine but jnebbe which for some reason has never been running guys
Fishman - do not remove food.
Worker turns decrease in value...somewhat..over, time but I recommend that more attention is paid to them in the short term. It's fine to build roads now.
NZ can put turn or 2 into Taj ...or switch with Krik next turn. Those cities can start hammers into units I guess afterwards. GE will take one turn to reach Sampsa - make sure road is complete there. (technically Krik could do the GE rush of Taj since its 10+pop but it also has pure GM points so I'd hate to mess with that)
Everything fine but jnebbe which for some reason has never been running guys
Fishman - do not remove food.
Worker turns decrease in value...somewhat..over, time but I recommend that more attention is paid to them in the short term. It's fine to build roads now.
NZ can put turn or 2 into Taj ...or switch with Krik next turn. Those cities can start hammers into units I guess afterwards. GE will take one turn to reach Sampsa - make sure road is complete there. (technically Krik could do the GE rush of Taj since its 10+pop but it also has pure GM points so I'd hate to mess with that)
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Gumbolt is fine. I'd get a barracks and start pumping horse archers (or Cuirassiers, you might be there by then) when the current galleon build finishes. Coanda is fine. Lymond is fine. Thebes is fine. Krikav should stay on the 3F farms. Sampsa should swap the plainshill for the grass mine. Jnebbe is on the verge of hitting happy cap, at which point it will run three specialists instead of coastal tiles. (I doubt it ever generates a Great Person because you've got other cities so far ahead, but you'd want to work the engineer or merchants anyways). I'd leave Fippy on the horses. It will need that food to reach its next great person, and that's a fairly high-value tile. Fish Man should definitely stay on the seafood. When it grows a size you can starve down working 5 specialists for a while, and bounce between 4/5 after that.
Thinking through the timing... next turn you get the Great Engineer in Thebes. That gives you a 1-turn window in which you are not in a Golden Age; I'd use that to build up food reserves in every city that wants specialists during a golden age. Lymond in four turns, Noble Zarkon in six, Fippy in eight, Krikav in ten. Great Merchants (you'll very likely have at least two from that) can have finished their trade missions shortly after turn 170, and before turn 175 you're attacking Zara Yaqob.
Speaking of which - you do get excellent multipliers on failgold on Shwedegon Paya, but personally I would just stay on horse archers. You're probably going to have three Great Merchant missions in the next 15 turns, 4500+ gold from that. You have 5 chariots (230 gold each to upgrade) and 9 horse archers (170 each) now; you'll finish probably three more horse archers before gunpowder with current build orders. Which means about 3320 gold to upgrade all 19 of those Horse Archers to Cuirassiers; two Great Merchant missions would give the gold you need for that. Odds are you have three GMs coming soon, or if you get unlucky be you can shut down research after Cuirassiers are unlocked to get the upgrades done, so staying on horse archers in Thebes gets you an extra pair of Cuirassiers for the attack on Zara Yaqob whereas Shwedegon Paya failgold (which might well not even arrive until 15, 20 turns in the future) just helps you get Rifling or Communism a bit earlier - nice, but not nearly as useful. The more Cuirassiers you have, the more cities you can take simultaneously and the faster the whole war goes.
Thinking through the timing... next turn you get the Great Engineer in Thebes. That gives you a 1-turn window in which you are not in a Golden Age; I'd use that to build up food reserves in every city that wants specialists during a golden age. Lymond in four turns, Noble Zarkon in six, Fippy in eight, Krikav in ten. Great Merchants (you'll very likely have at least two from that) can have finished their trade missions shortly after turn 170, and before turn 175 you're attacking Zara Yaqob.
Speaking of which - you do get excellent multipliers on failgold on Shwedegon Paya, but personally I would just stay on horse archers. You're probably going to have three Great Merchant missions in the next 15 turns, 4500+ gold from that. You have 5 chariots (230 gold each to upgrade) and 9 horse archers (170 each) now; you'll finish probably three more horse archers before gunpowder with current build orders. Which means about 3320 gold to upgrade all 19 of those Horse Archers to Cuirassiers; two Great Merchant missions would give the gold you need for that. Odds are you have three GMs coming soon, or if you get unlucky be you can shut down research after Cuirassiers are unlocked to get the upgrades done, so staying on horse archers in Thebes gets you an extra pair of Cuirassiers for the attack on Zara Yaqob whereas Shwedegon Paya failgold (which might well not even arrive until 15, 20 turns in the future) just helps you get Rifling or Communism a bit earlier - nice, but not nearly as useful. The more Cuirassiers you have, the more cities you can take simultaneously and the faster the whole war goes.
crashmon
Warlord
Just to ask one point on chaining. I have my ships set up now in a chain between the continents, but to move the GM from one to another, I guess they just need to be next to each other correct? Then I just move the GM from one to the next.
Also can I move him between multiple ships on the same turn, ie moving from one ship to another only takes I movement point?
Also can I move him between multiple ships on the same turn, ie moving from one ship to another only takes I movement point?
You want the ships to end up sharing a tile, so you can select the GM on one ship and hit the "load" button to load him onto the other ship without actually moving. That way it takes 0 movement points, can in fact be done after he's already burned his moves for the turn (such as by loading onto the first ship off land). So with 5-move Galleons, the spacing would be something like G - - - - G - - - - G - - - - G and so forth. Theoretically, if you had enough ships to spare positioned correctly, you could move a Great Merchant from Fippy to Rome in a single turn; in practice you'll just be using the three or four ships you can get in position to speed it up a little (and later GMs, anything after the Lymond Great Person, I'd probably send to Gish instead of Rome so you can get the gold from them faster to attack earlier)
crashmon
Warlord
Yea I think first one will go Rome, then the others more local.
Attack order will be Zara => Charlie => Gilga => Hammy => Izzy => Jules, but might have hit the Dom limit by the time I get to Rome, depends how quickly they vassel
Attack order will be Zara => Charlie => Gilga => Hammy => Izzy => Jules, but might have hit the Dom limit by the time I get to Rome, depends how quickly they vassel
crashmon
Warlord
1010 AD
)
- Made adjustments as above
- 1000AD when not in golden age, ran food everywhere
- 1010AD have just bulbed Taj, we now on Golden age number 2
- Have tried to adjust cities slightly, most are now working full GPP's but have to be careful with food bar, hence some are also on food spots so I dont starve a level
- Got a bit of gold from AI
- Libbed MT, 3 turns from Gunpowder
)Lymond will have no trouble hitting a GP in two turns. Noble Zarkon is not going to be able to make the 4-turn cutoff, but will have no trouble with one in five turns.
Fippy needs to stay below 700 GPP over the next 5 turns; 5 turns at 4 specialist (+36 per turn) gets you to 699/700, which is just too perfect. Then it just starves a bit to generate 101+ GPP over the next two turns. Side note: shift one of those coast tile workers onto the horse; grass horse is simply a better 2F tile.
Krikav needs to be below 700 GPP in five turns, below 800 in seven turns, and above 900 in nine turns. It's going to need significantly more food for that (that's 44.6 GPP per turn over the nine turns), which means it needs to be able to steal the pigs from Thebes for at least four of those turns. Thebes will be, best-case, -2F per turn without that pigs, so it needs at least 8 food banked. Which means Thebes needs to start working that inland lake instead of the engineer or the copper, for at least a few turns. Now is the time for that, before you finish Gunpowder and Thebes can start building Cuirassiers.
When convenient, I'd swing a worker up towards Jnebbe to get a mine on that Tundra hill next to it. Long-term that's probably a tile it wants to be working for production as you spam Cuirassiers.
Fippy needs to stay below 700 GPP over the next 5 turns; 5 turns at 4 specialist (+36 per turn) gets you to 699/700, which is just too perfect. Then it just starves a bit to generate 101+ GPP over the next two turns. Side note: shift one of those coast tile workers onto the horse; grass horse is simply a better 2F tile.
Krikav needs to be below 700 GPP in five turns, below 800 in seven turns, and above 900 in nine turns. It's going to need significantly more food for that (that's 44.6 GPP per turn over the nine turns), which means it needs to be able to steal the pigs from Thebes for at least four of those turns. Thebes will be, best-case, -2F per turn without that pigs, so it needs at least 8 food banked. Which means Thebes needs to start working that inland lake instead of the engineer or the copper, for at least a few turns. Now is the time for that, before you finish Gunpowder and Thebes can start building Cuirassiers.
When convenient, I'd swing a worker up towards Jnebbe to get a mine on that Tundra hill next to it. Long-term that's probably a tile it wants to be working for production as you spam Cuirassiers.
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Ok..looking at cities:
First, I think Krikav should pop the GM first. On reason is that Krikav will have a harder time producing one later once other GPs pop, and it is only 3t away. Another is that Krikav has the only pure GM points. (you have rather high odds on non-GMs in lymo, nz and my)
You can adjust your ships to start from SE of the Coanda pigs, with the new Galleon from Gumbo moving down there to start the chain.
Looking at this chain, I think the target for the path could be Cordoba. Drop off GM in Cordoba. The Caravel that is now near Rome could move to 2S1E of Seville in that inland sea and pick up GM and sail into Cumae to drop off there for walk to Rome. (Unfortunately you just don't have enough ships here to chain all the way to Rome, but I think the path I described is your fast method. Given the odd proximity of Rome it's not bad)
(edit: Looking at this again...Madrid is also good drop off point....same really as Cordoba, except pickup 1SE of Sevilla. GM will take a turn to move either way before stepping into boat. Exception would be if Izzy has actually built road NE of Cordoba which is hard to tell right now. If so, the GM could move from cordoba directly into the boat. Otherwise it takes a turn, plus GM loses turn exiting a boat)
Cities:
Thebes - no need for engineer now. working gold is much better yield
My City - Work the horse, of course (pay attention to tiles). Every citizen not on pigs/clams/horse should be a merchant this turn. Keep gpp maxxed as much as possible. Then following turn, take off just enough merchants so that Krikav can pop its GM.
...this city can finish a couple more spies now
Lymo - Fine now...but next turn take off just enough merchants so that Krikav can pop GM first, but as with My keep enough merchants running to keep within 2t from popping. In other words, always keep cities maxxing that gpp as much as possible.
(to clarify, if Krik is 2t from popping, lymo, my, nz should be 2t from popping..so adjust accordingly....don't...like..take off a bunch of merchants in those cities..still keep them maxxed as much as possible....)
NZ - Again, keep max on gpp this turn, then adjust a bit so Krikav can pop
Jnebbe - This is really an exercise, as I'm not sure this city will pop a GP or not. Notice food bar is at 34/36 and city is at +2 food surplus. This turn press avoid growth. No loss of food here +2 surplus with 2 food left store before growth. Next turn max out gpp by running all merchants other than fish, ofc, and probably keep horse too.
Gumbo - take the two plains cottages from Coanda for more hammers to finish galleon a turn faster to get into chain position quicker
coanda - shoulda always been working grass mine over workshop....do that now...and coast for lost plains tiles to keep some growth going there.
krikav - city is fine for now..
Remember - When Krikav is at 1t to pop GM all the other gpp producing cities can totally max that turn cause Krikav was settled before them. But until that point keep those cities max the most you can and just take off just enough merchants to slow them down a tad.
Grass tile at this point really should be workshops from now one. Like the tile above FishMan. Non-river cottages really have little value at this stage, and workshops will grow in value soon. watermills/windmills may come into play as well. But generally unless a city just has very strong hammers you will be whipping most cities anyway except Thebes.
Spies should stand 1SW of Sampsa, where I assume you will place a road now anyway. This will allow your spy army to move on roads to aksum a few turns before attack.
Lastly, trade pigs to JC for some gpt. Renegotiate trade with Chuck.
most every city should start on HAs unless they have something else they are building like galleons or spies. HAs will convert to Curs when GP finishes.
when AIs start getting a nice bit of gold..say 50+ you might start trading maps for gold
First, I think Krikav should pop the GM first. On reason is that Krikav will have a harder time producing one later once other GPs pop, and it is only 3t away. Another is that Krikav has the only pure GM points. (you have rather high odds on non-GMs in lymo, nz and my)
You can adjust your ships to start from SE of the Coanda pigs, with the new Galleon from Gumbo moving down there to start the chain.
Looking at this chain, I think the target for the path could be Cordoba. Drop off GM in Cordoba. The Caravel that is now near Rome could move to 2S1E of Seville in that inland sea and pick up GM and sail into Cumae to drop off there for walk to Rome. (Unfortunately you just don't have enough ships here to chain all the way to Rome, but I think the path I described is your fast method. Given the odd proximity of Rome it's not bad)
(edit: Looking at this again...Madrid is also good drop off point....same really as Cordoba, except pickup 1SE of Sevilla. GM will take a turn to move either way before stepping into boat. Exception would be if Izzy has actually built road NE of Cordoba which is hard to tell right now. If so, the GM could move from cordoba directly into the boat. Otherwise it takes a turn, plus GM loses turn exiting a boat)
Cities:
Thebes - no need for engineer now. working gold is much better yield
My City - Work the horse, of course (pay attention to tiles). Every citizen not on pigs/clams/horse should be a merchant this turn. Keep gpp maxxed as much as possible. Then following turn, take off just enough merchants so that Krikav can pop its GM.
...this city can finish a couple more spies now
Lymo - Fine now...but next turn take off just enough merchants so that Krikav can pop GM first, but as with My keep enough merchants running to keep within 2t from popping. In other words, always keep cities maxxing that gpp as much as possible.
(to clarify, if Krik is 2t from popping, lymo, my, nz should be 2t from popping..so adjust accordingly....don't...like..take off a bunch of merchants in those cities..still keep them maxxed as much as possible....)
NZ - Again, keep max on gpp this turn, then adjust a bit so Krikav can pop
Jnebbe - This is really an exercise, as I'm not sure this city will pop a GP or not. Notice food bar is at 34/36 and city is at +2 food surplus. This turn press avoid growth. No loss of food here +2 surplus with 2 food left store before growth. Next turn max out gpp by running all merchants other than fish, ofc, and probably keep horse too.
Gumbo - take the two plains cottages from Coanda for more hammers to finish galleon a turn faster to get into chain position quicker
coanda - shoulda always been working grass mine over workshop....do that now...and coast for lost plains tiles to keep some growth going there.
krikav - city is fine for now..
Remember - When Krikav is at 1t to pop GM all the other gpp producing cities can totally max that turn cause Krikav was settled before them. But until that point keep those cities max the most you can and just take off just enough merchants to slow them down a tad.
Grass tile at this point really should be workshops from now one. Like the tile above FishMan. Non-river cottages really have little value at this stage, and workshops will grow in value soon. watermills/windmills may come into play as well. But generally unless a city just has very strong hammers you will be whipping most cities anyway except Thebes.
Spies should stand 1SW of Sampsa, where I assume you will place a road now anyway. This will allow your spy army to move on roads to aksum a few turns before attack.
Lastly, trade pigs to JC for some gpt. Renegotiate trade with Chuck.
most every city should start on HAs unless they have something else they are building like galleons or spies. HAs will convert to Curs when GP finishes.
when AIs start getting a nice bit of gold..say 50+ you might start trading maps for gold
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I'll add this amendment here, though I don't think you read the above post yet.
Chaining from Lymo is actually fine. I played a couple of turn to setup the chain of boats, and with the new boat from Gumbo, a chain from lymo should be fine. Lymo spot is faster getting GMs into the boat anyway. Will put GM into Cordoba in 1t. (or Madrid)
Keep eye out for Engi trade.
After GP finishes, I'd use that GS to bulb Printing Press then finish PP at 100%. Then go 0% for a while, maybe using Banking as placeholder (Econ would not be bad) to accumulate gold.
Rome has a harbor but did not give as much gold as I expected, likely due to Rome's relatively small size...but still nice chunk of change.
move stack SW of sampsa the turn you upgrade...move..then upgrade..then attack
some map trades soon will give you more gold as well..you should have plenty to upgrade existing HAs.
any city that is not currently focused on gpp once GP finishes, can switch to food/hammers at that point.
Chaining from Lymo is actually fine. I played a couple of turn to setup the chain of boats, and with the new boat from Gumbo, a chain from lymo should be fine. Lymo spot is faster getting GMs into the boat anyway. Will put GM into Cordoba in 1t. (or Madrid)
Keep eye out for Engi trade.
After GP finishes, I'd use that GS to bulb Printing Press then finish PP at 100%. Then go 0% for a while, maybe using Banking as placeholder (Econ would not be bad) to accumulate gold.
Rome has a harbor but did not give as much gold as I expected, likely due to Rome's relatively small size...but still nice chunk of change.
move stack SW of sampsa the turn you upgrade...move..then upgrade..then attack
some map trades soon will give you more gold as well..you should have plenty to upgrade existing HAs.
any city that is not currently focused on gpp once GP finishes, can switch to food/hammers at that point.
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Get at least one, preferably two more spies soonish. There's some time lag on spies - they want to be in position at the target city five turns before you attack it, so they have time to build up the full 50% "stationary spy" espionage discount. You're probably going to be attacking him on like turn 174, give or take a turn. Hitting Aksum on about turn 178, which means the spies need to be in Aksum about turn 173, so they need to be in Sampsa around turn 170. Fippy seems to have one mostly-built already; you can finish that one easy. If you want a comfortable margin of safety, get a third in Jnebbe, Sampsa, or Thebes (anywhere else is not going to finish in time at this point).
You want several spies because one of them might get caught while waiting to build up that espionage multiplier, or might fail the mission and you need another spy to give it a second/third attempt. Plus in this case if you pull off the espionage mission and still have a spy left over, you could do an insult-to-injury refinement of also forcing him out of slavery and into Caste system with the extra spy.
You want several spies because one of them might get caught while waiting to build up that espionage multiplier, or might fail the mission and you need another spy to give it a second/third attempt. Plus in this case if you pull off the espionage mission and still have a spy left over, you could do an insult-to-injury refinement of also forcing him out of slavery and into Caste system with the extra spy.
crashmon
Warlord
Hi Guys, not forgotten this, but will be tomorrow before can play a few more turns.... That nasty civ killer called work deadlines has paused my golden age at least until tomorrow
petersc
Chieftain
Would anyone be willing to put a few screenshots together? I read this at work during lunch break, so can't open the save. I'm doing my best to follow along, but it's a little tougher now without those beautiful screenies to gaze at. Maybe some city views of the better cities, a couple of pics of the different parts of the world where the distant AI's showed up?
Great thread, really enjoying it, and learning a lot!
Great thread, really enjoying it, and learning a lot!
crashmon
Warlord
Yea I forgot to ask this in an earlier post... At what point do you stop the cottaging and start the workshops.. I do know its situational, but as general guidance is it at the point when you want to stop growing, and start producing (ie preparing for war)....
Also when we are ready for war, will be Slavery => Theoracy, but I guess we will also go into Nationhood (in case we need to draft)... also Police state would be to aim for as well I guess.
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crashmon
Warlord
Yep in my next post I'll put a bunch of screenshots up... I only stopped as I was needed to do 10+ to get the whole map, but I can at least put up the continent I'm on and also the Charlie and Gilga positions
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About now
Honestly, cottage v. workshops is one of those questions that really has no definitive answer like 1000AD or something. Depends a good deal on how your game is going and where you are taking it. But expectation of Guilds/Chemistry is one indicator.
Let's look at it this way. Your cap is generally going to be a cottage city for bureau..not always but usually, and you may set up some other cottage type cities early...like Sampsa (flood plains/green rivers). The cottages develop from an early stage such as at this point they are producing a lot of commerce for your empire. No other city in your current empire is technically a "cottage" city other than the fact that many overlap cities that are and have helped develop them. I'd probably not have improved some of those cities quite like you have but it's not that big a deal. It's fine though to lay some early grassland cottages in cities if commerce is at a premium.
At the point you laid that cottage for FishMan, it's quite late and the value of that cottage given the growth needed, and no river, is really miniscule at this point. A workshop on the other hand will essentially be like a mine in short order simply based on technology.
Then you have captured cities (mid to late game). Some might already be nicely cottaged, whereas some may be a hodge-podge mess of improvements - as AIs are wont to do - or still have a lot of forests (always a good thing). I'm likely to keep nicely developed cottages, but most captured cities will get hammer/food based improvements as needed moving forward.
Slavery/Theo after the golden age is good. Not sure on Nationhood, but maybe at some point.
Police State plus Nationhood is a direction you might end up heading. Slavery and Theocracy is definitely something you are doing, the only question is timing. If you were not a Spiritual leader, 95% chance the correct answer would be "11 turns from now, on the last turn of the golden age, for the anarchy-free swap." As a SPI leader, you can be a little more flexible about the timing.
Once Lymond, Krikav, NZ, and Fippy have finished their GP, there will be more information to make that judgement.
Once Lymond, Krikav, NZ, and Fippy have finished their GP, there will be more information to make that judgement.
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yep, you might extend Paci/Caste a bit to grab the last couple of close GPs if they have not popped yet ...my guess is they will all pop in a matter of a few turns if you follow my plan. The My City guy would be last.
Nationhood may not be something you need initially, assuming you head toward Rifling at some point. I'd rather use the pop to whip Curs as opposed to drafting Mughskets.
(personally, I don't use Police State much myself...may depend on how much happy you need, but research from Rep won't matter much after Rifling/Chem)
Nationhood may not be something you need initially, assuming you head toward Rifling at some point. I'd rather use the pop to whip Curs as opposed to drafting Mughskets.
(personally, I don't use Police State much myself...may depend on how much happy you need, but research from Rep won't matter much after Rifling/Chem)
crashmon
Warlord
Ok Guys
Screenshots taken before I modified some cities (ie Krikav is not working specialists anymore)
Save attached
- Krikav has just given me the GM, Lymond will be next
- Just started the turn, should have the chain ready from Lymo to Madrid, then land to Rome
- GS has bulbed Printing Press
- Renegotiated some trades
- Have switched Krikav away from GP now
Screenshots taken before I modified some cities (ie Krikav is not working specialists anymore)
Spoiler Maps for Petersc :
Save attached
