Need help on start

Gliese 581

Your average civ junkie
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
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Sweden
So I decided to try out Justinian since I haven't played him yet. This is the start:

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Now I play ALOT of games and normally I'm to impatient to ask for advice on the boards, but since this start is clearly awesome I would like some input on how to best proceed.

The biggest drawback of Justinian as I see it is not his rather weak traits but the horrible starting techs. The Wheel and Mysticism is probably the worst combination imo, nothing for workers and unable to build work boats, hunting while limited in what it enables for workers provide you with a scout and lets you research AH as your first tech if you want to.

So what to do here? I'm going to settle in place so I'll have lots of seafood to work, there's also a few hills and a lot of forests, as well as a corn tile.
I could research fishing or agriculture first, what should my first build be? Remember that it will be accelerated by the plains hill -start. Should I go for a worker first or grow while I research fishing? How aggressively should I pursue BW?

The settings are emperor hemispheres with 2 continents and 8 civs including me on a standard map, so we're looking at a fairly large continent with 2-4 AIs sharing it. From what I know of these maps they tend to be stretched from the far south to the far north with an ocean between them so I'm likely located on the east coast of one of these continents and given the jungle I'm more in the middle than in the end so I will likely be surrounded.

The save: Justinian 4000 BC
 
WOW, what an excellent GP farm we have here! And enough production for the early game also.. just :eek: . You probably want to move your capital later though, so you can take better advantage of Bureaucracy. I would start off by researching Fishing->Agriculture->Mining->BW while building Warrior->Workboat->Workboat->Worker. Try to time the finishing of the warrior on to same turn as getting fishing, and then work a 3H tile while building the first workboat.
 
And you are sitting on a plains hill :eek: and there is space to at least one more decent commerce city (pigs/dyes) to the north...
 
I've not downloaded your save, but I'd vote for Fishing first and get at least a couple of Work Boats on the Clams because your :commerce: haul will crawl otherwise. I would pursue Bronze Working aggressively (putting it before Agriculture) - you'll be sprouting whippable population and you'll want to clear some Forests away for Mines. I'd start with a Warrior and interrupt for several Work Boats on the discovery of Fishing, and later finish the Warrior off to address the "we fear for our safety" issue when you get to your happiness cap. The Workers should pop out once you've got some Work Boats on the seafood.

[Edit] Cross posting! [/Edit]
 
This is typical swedish luck :lol:
 
Thanks for the input! I did consider going for a worker first but after building that farm and hooking it up he would only be able to build roads on the hills in wait for other techs so I think you guys are right about fishing.

Cam_H: Do you think the extra commerce from the clams outweigh the extra food from the fish? This is interesting, I usually always go for fish over clam, often even when I'm financial. Is this a mistake? Of course, few civs need as much early research as Justinian.. I could also work the clams one round earlier. Anyone else vote for going for fish first?

I think BW before agriculture makes sense if I'm going for fishing, since I'll have food but lack in production, and Justinian get a 50% hammer boost on settlers since he's imperialistic so getting a mine up could save me an extra turn or two when I produce the first settler.
 
I'd start with a Warrior and interrupt for several Work Boats on the discovery of Fishing, and later finish the Warrior off

Having a 2:hammers: capital and a 3:hammers: tile to work awaiable you can MM the Warrior to finish on the same turn fishing is done, and putting 3 or 4 hammers overflow into first Workboat.

Keeping the warrior in the queue while building multiple boats would give some hammer decay...

[Edit] PS: I usually go for Fish first as well, as it will shave one turn from growing, also shaving one turn from the second W-Boat... But i never actually did some math on it vs. the additional commerce in the teching...
 
Ok, after thinking about it a bit this is the plan:
Fishing->Mining->BW then Agriculture if bronze is near, otherwise Hunting->Archery first.
Warrior->WB->WB->Worker
Build a warrior first and time him with fishing and immediately start a work boat, get to 2 pop then focus on hammers to get the boat fast. Then another boat and a worker, probably followed by warrior->settler or just settler depending on what scouting gives.

I'm going to put the WBs on clams for the extra commerce, I think it will really be helpful since I have alot of techs to get before I'm on my feet. Also it doesn't hurt that I can hook up the clams a turn earlier than the fishes.
With one plains hill mine and the capital giving 2 hammers I'll be looking at 6 base hammers +3 from the imperialistic trait when building settlers so that should be quick enough and can be supplemented with chopping.
 
Ok so I played out a few turns and it's going really well thanks to your advice.

Spoiler :

It turns out I'm surrounded just as I suspected.. Tokugawa is to my west..

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While Caesar is to my north west and Qin is to the north.

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A view of the capital:

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My warriors are returning home while a scout I popped from my first hut is going to continue exploring in the west. My hope is that there is copper nearby so I can start on a settler immediately after finishing the worker and then send it out with one of my warriors while the other stay in the capital as garrison.
I've got some tough neighbours and I'm in the middle of the map but at least there's jungle and desert between me and my opponents which will slow down their expansion in my direction. Unfortunately, this also means that barbarians will be rampant, and I'm considering chop-rushing The Great Wall.
I think IW will also have to be a priority so I can start to expand to the jungle..
 
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