? Need suggestions for Always War game

ljsviolin

Chieftain
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May 19, 2008
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Inspired by Sulla's videos of an Always War game (Monarch, playing Hammurabi, Babylon), I thought I'd give it a try. I typically play Monarch and win (or get so far ahead in tech, I start something else). But defending against all other civs may be a bigger challenge. -)

Does anyone have a suggestion for level/map type/Civ to make first steps in Always War? Also, war weariness in this scenario seems rough - any mods or tools to deal with it (other than the obvious slider/buildings in game)?

Thanks for any ideas or hints! Even after all these years, I still like playing and learning in Civ 4.

PS: How about that AI Survivor championship game? Very surprising AI behavior and ending...
 
On Monarch you probably want a good early rush unit, and handicap several AIs :)
Some examples are Praets, War Chariots, Vultures.
Can also be done with just Axes i.e. thou. If you can choke them so much that they are unable to form stacks which move towards your cities, it's much less scary.

AIs like focusing on the nearest city, building up meanwhile in your core can work.
Pyras are an obvious key wonder in AW, Great wall is also popular for more generals.
 
Taking a step back isn't a bad idea, Always War is rough. One thing you can do to make it easier is to disable Tech Trading - you're not going to be trading any tech, for obvious reasons, and the AIs will otherwise trade techs more readily than they'd normally do since all of them get a diplo boost for shared war, and basically none of them (with very few Montezuma-ah I mean exceptions) will DoW anyone else since they're too skittish about entering into a two-front war.

As for a civ/leader, focus on someone who can actually build a strong economy without anyone else's help. You might look at someone like Toku and think "oh, AGG/PRO, that'll be really useful when I'm at war with literally everyone else the entire time", but rest assured that having the teching capabilities of a snail is exactly what you don't want in a situation where you have to tech everything yourself. Or steal it through espionage, but than AGG/PRO doesn't do anything to increase your espionage output either.
 
My method is cripple and expand. You want a lvl2 warrior who can worker steal using double movement over forest/jungle. Do not give the promo till you are ready to steal. Then it is a case of choking 1-2 AI so they don't have access to metal/horse. This stop earlier stacks arriving on your doorstep.

I think on Monarch level just expand to 4-5+ cities and beeline HBR. Then take down 1-2 AI asap while crippling 1-2 others. Also look at who is likely to be a big threat. (Those who will tech fastest.)

A common approach in these games is to build The Great Wall and use an espionage economy. So spies to steal technology. Also sending your great spy off to do an infiltrate mission. I often use capture gold/pillage gold to help push me to alphabet and currency. Economy techs can be really important.

You need to always be advancing and taking down AI. If you find yourself just defending on 5-6 cities eventually the Ai will build larger and larger stacks and overwhelm you.

If you do go HA. Some axes can really help defend pillaging units in AI land. As the AI will likely spam spears. Which is a real pain.

Main downside to these game is time. Very time consuming constantly fighting off AI stacks.

I usually play Always war games at immortal level and this at times can be challenging. On Monarch level their expansion should be much slower.

For defences people often use archers and let the Ai suicide stacks on them. Sittingbull is a good leader for Always war. That or an imperialist leader. Even Hammy with his bowmen would be good. Of course if you go HA and promote shock then you can probably wipe out most stacks with HA.

Hill cities are useful if you are using a city as a choke point for AI stacks.
 
Yep, hill cities are good. A good compact empire with emphasis and developing and protecting the land around your cap. Satellite/helper cities on the fringe - on hills - to attract the stacks.

On low levels, as long as you understand basic mechanics, it really doesn't matter. A good UU can help but not necessary really. You can also try unrestricted with a leader like Churchill on the Mali civ so you can get protective Skirms. Skirms also make good choke units. You might even ..oddly...go straight to Archery here and run out 2 or 3 Skirms to choke and worker steal...don't even bother building a worker. Your first warrior can get Woody II-III for worker snipage..and first GG can make him an Axe/medic/choker that can rage on enemy archers in their forest. If you are playing like noble or prince, this can be a good approach.

Church's Charismatic trait is nice in AW too for the extra happiness and faster promos. '

With those choking Skirms, consider promoting a couple along the Guerrilla line. GII gives double movement on hills which can be nice...not to mention the defense factor.

Try to roll a start with a good cottage type bureau cap since primarily your economy will come from that..surrounded by 3 or 4 nearby hill cities eventually close by. Keep in mind that your secondary cities primarily are for drawing enemy units and helping develop cottages for the cap - as well as maybe grabbing any necessary resources. Eventually you will be able to build up and army of melee/cats or Horse Archers to send out to start taking stuff yourself.

Again, keep those secondary cities close and overlapping capital if at all possible relative to being able to settle on hills. Theses cities can be whipped more too for units. You will probably not settle more that 3 or 4 cities and likely at a slower pace as you need to balance economy and defense. In other words, you need some to draw units but until your production increase it is hard to defend all those cities...although a Skirms are really cheap and 2-4 on hill cities.

Take advantage of the layout of land as well around your small empire ..noting choke points and safe zones, if they exist - like the back of your empire facing water such that no threats come in certain directions. As opposed ..say..to being right smack in the middle of the map getting hit from all sounds.

I assume you use BUG or BAT, so I'm not sure what else you would need unless looking for something very different from the vanilla game.

Lastly, we are not familiar with how experienced you are and your comfort level. Monarch level should certainly be doable.

Just remember that the faster you can get out chokers the more time you have to develop your land and prepare.
 
On always war, you should probably play two levels lower than you play usually. It is very tough because EVERY A.I. will go into war-mode (also the most peaceful ones). Once you have declared on them they will spam units. In one of my games, the most inconvenient neighbour was GANDHI!
One military trait and one economic trait is a good combo. I was playing several AW with Mao (Sitting Bull is also very good, or Gilgamesh). Early rush is a good idea, beause you cannot allow everyone to grow big. I would also disable tech trading.
Good luck.
 
1. Play archipelago maps ;)
2. Don't explore much.
3. kill their scouts before they expose your cities.
4. play no tech trading
 
Interestingly the Ai can only declare on you once they have met you. So it is possible for Ai to have wars before they meet you.

They will send you stacks which will keep getting bigger so it's important to take down the AI if you can or you end up just fending off the stacks.

Unless the AI willingly suicide stacks. Playing with skirmishers could be a lot of fun!
 
I thought always way only applied to when they met you, not necessarily AI to AI. While it is possible that they war before meeting you, it seemed to be a rare occurrence.

If you can find the perfect choke point they will suicide, but most maps don't provide one.
 
Always War does indeed mean that every AI is always at war with the player (well, as soon as you meet someone), not everyone is always at war with everyone. And because of that AI wars are very rare, since very few AIs will willingly enter a two-front war.
 
Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions, folks. I did indeed drop a few levels, just for comfort's sake, and am trying to be more careful in where I settle, etc. Doing fine so far (decided on Stalin for Agg/Ind and Cossacks at the right time).
 
I’m intrigued. Great suggestions here. Playing an early super UU will feel more justified here and less cheesy. :goodjob:

Too bad there is not actually setting where ALL players are at war with each other. I had thought that’s what Always War in fact was: a free-for-all. But it’s actually a dog pile. Also cool.
 
You can also check the box "Permanent war" (and "Permanent peace") that would mean there is only war between everyone. Actually it is only one box: "War or peace". Not sure how that works.
 
Interesting.. is that in World Builder?

Another idea:
Anyone try Always War + Raging Barbs???
 
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No, it's a check box in the Custom Game. I tried AW + Raging Barbs two times, it really depends on your starting position. If you have too much open land behind your borders, the Barbs will harass you from one side and the other guys screw you from the other side
 
Yeah, one front is hard enough early game, let alone two.
 
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