Negotiations with TNT

[vikingruler]

STAY AT WAR!!! The reason we tried really hard to get MW was to combat TNT. WE MUST destroy this threat not to mention their offer is absoulutley prepostreous and would never be accepted.

 

[Robi D]

I've written a reply to TNT's letter. I'll just make it clear i am not looking to make peace with them, its just a ploy to see if we can dig up some info. If TNT believe we are looking for peace then all the better, as they wont know our true positon . I think it was Mao who commented of the importance of diplomacy during war with his talk, talk, fight, fight, talk quote. Anyway here it is.

Greetings donsig,

Thank you for your reply to our letter. Now before we get into the technicalities of the agreement such as 1gpt indefinately is unworkable and mapmaking is an expensive tech, My government would like to know, if we were to agree to a peace settlement, what assurances can you give us that you wont just agree to peace and then continue your war plans and break the treaty when your immortals arrive at our cities.

Robi D
Foreign Affairs Consul, Doughnutia

PS- You can have all the goats, we prefer women.

 

[Nobody]

very good. keep making the peace. keep them talking then we will burn down there capital and hang Provolution (we all know hes calling the shots over there)

 

[vikingruler]

Great letter. Short, sweet, and doesn't reveal anything but that there offer is outrageous. Hopefully we can bide our time and build up a grand army of Mounted Warriors and destroy TNT. Even if they bring in an army of immortals our MW's will obliterate them!!

 

[Robi D]

This is the latest response from TNT

Greetings Robi D,

The people of Iroq, as assurance against our aggressions, we will send you one Prince Strider. Comes packed with an important sounding title (he really does nothing) and several insane and completely random comments. You will fall to your knees in honor of his psyche and vanity. You may keep him for 20 turns, at the end of which we will have to take him back.

Aside from Prince Strider and 20 turns of peace we offer the Iroqi people no assurances. Once the peace treaty ends the peace ends unless another treaty is signed to take its place.

My people are not as learned as yours but we do not see how 1 gold per turn in perpetuity is unworkable. As long as your people have gold and pay us this admittedly token tribute it is workable. Do you forsee a time when gold will be as scarce as goats in Iroq? I must remind the Iroqi people that our terms include Iroqi subservience to my great people. The Iroqi must show us due respect and pay us tribute. Once the tribute stops, so does the peace. For now we will not ask for gold in perpetuity. We will ask for a lump sum of 20g now and a payment of 2 gold per turn for twenty turns. We will renegotiate the amount of this tribute if and when the time comes to renegotiate another peace treaty.

Are your people willing to send husbands (a worker) for the Iroqi squaws now living in our lands? Your message was mute on this.

Your message also said nothing of writing and code of laws. Are we to assume that you are willing to teach us these two things for peace? My people are ignorant of the cost of map making. It may well be an expensive tech for all we know. Tell us, how many Iroqi cities is it worth?

donsig

P.S. We are also tired of Prince Strider seducing our women so you would be doing us a great favor by showing him your hospitality for twenty turns...

Now am i missing something, because what on earth is a prince strider?
Otherwise basically they are saying we only guarantee peace for 20 turns, which means nothing since it would take them over 20 turns for the immortals to get to us and if we want a longer peace then every 20 turns we have to give them everything we have.

They are obviously very confident of their position atm, personally i would say overconfident, or maybe they are try to bluff a little here and are trying to make their position look better.

 

[Nobody]

we should reply in a way to keep the cooperation going. Maybe say we are willing to give Writing and Code of Laws.

 

[zyxy]

Now am i missing something, because what on earth is a prince strider?

I guess it's a hostage . Someone they want to get rid of, so it's not a very good hostage. And apparently he is not mounted .
[Strider is one of the people on their team.]

Otherwise basically they are saying we only guarantee peace for 20 turns, which means nothing since it would take them over 20 turns for the immortals to get to us and if we want a longer peace then every 20 turns we have to give them everything we have.

Nail on the head.

 

[DaveShack]

we should reply in a way to keep the cooperation going. Maybe say we are willing to give Writing and Code of Laws.

I'd say not...

 

[DaveShack]

Otherwise basically they are saying we only guarantee peace for 20 turns, which means nothing since it would take them over 20 turns for the immortals to get to us and if we want a longer peace then every 20 turns we have to give them everything we have.

They are obviously very confident of their position atm, personally i would say overconfident, or maybe they are try to bluff a little here and are trying to make their position look better.

Sounds to me like they see going pointy stick against us as a do or die situation. If we successfully resist, they look to end up in 4th place.

It could all be a ruse too, who's to say they are actually planning an offensive at all? We might want to try to get the other two teams to reveal their experiences with TNT to see if our impressions agree.

 

[Nobody]

I'd say not...

Just to keep them talking, then they will spend more time talking rather than planing a invasion. I dont think we should give them anything.

 

[vikingruler]

I do believe it is a bluff. They really can't think we wouldn't have done all we possibly could to obtain Mounted Warriors so they can't call military a bluff. It will take around 20 turns for their Immortals to reach us, it will take our MWs half that time so we can easily decimate their forces with startegic raids. anyway, we should send back something like this:

While your generous offer is tempting, we can't agree to terms described. For instance the gold amounts are outrageous and the worker you DEMAND is prepostreous. Not to mention the fact that we are not stupid, 20 turns of peace is all you treacherous bastards need to send an army of Immortals right to our doorstep. Best Regards, Team Doughnut.

That will probably not be sent but those really are my feelings.
LETS DESTROY THE PERSIANS AND TAKE BACK OUR WOMEN

I don't really get the Prince Strider thing either.

 

[Robi D]

In response to TNT's last letter i have sent this off.

Greetings donsig,

We have not found been satisfied by your assurances. To give you writing and Code of Laws plus 10gold ect. for 20 turns of peace isn't exactly worth our while. The fact that you could not attack us in any serious form in the next 20 turn anyway makes signing this peace agreement rather pointless. We would be giving you technologies for nothing. If you would like to change your terms then we might be more agreeable to your proposition, as in its current form it's of no interest to us.

Robi D, F.A. Consul for Doughnutia

PS- You should get your men to learn from Prince Strider, as we find their goat fettish rather disturbing.

 

[Robi D]

Greetings Robi D,

I think the letter speaks for itself, complete tripe really

You forget that the current price of peace includes map making, 2 gpt and a worker as well as writing, code of laws and 10 gold. Your people would do well to remember all the terms. Perhaps you should write them down somewhere. I would do that for you but I know not how. Funny though how I can remember all these details without your fine technologies.

If your people think that twenty turns of peace is pointless then we will not debate the issue. We will only tell you that the longer you take to submit, the higher the price you will pay for peace in the end. Showing us proper respect now will make subsequent terms more lenient whereas continued resistance will bring progressively harsher terms.

Choose wisely.

donsig

 

[vikingruler]

Wow, TNT is really, really arrogant. We must stay adamant with our stance. No peace unless it is a fair trade which is nothing. They should realize we will do everything to get Mounted Warriors who are a major risk to them. Therefore the agreement should not only end the threat of TNT but keep us from destroying them. I suggest sending back, something saying, unless we have a peace treaty without giving into your demands the war will continue and you will regret it.

 

[Nobody]

The beast has spoken, if you guys read my little console thread you would notice i sent Welcomeing PMs to all the foreign nations, just to introduce my self, i in no way commited us to anything just said hi.

Greetings Donsig representative of the No-named peoples,

I send you this Formal note to introduce myself as the new Foreign Affairs Console of the Doughnut lands. Although our nations are currently in a formal state of war, relating to your unprovoked act of aggression upon the doughnut people, and your subsequent invasion I still feel the need to introduce myself, so that in the future you will know whom to address diplomatic correspondence.

Recent negotiations between my predecessor and yourself have come to a brick wall, but I still remain hopeful the in future we may restart formal relations. My door is open anytime you wish to begin negotiations to this end. If at anytime you wish to make contact with myself you may do so by Private message, or emailing/messaging Greystar0@hotmail.com.

Fondness regards,
Always your obedient servant



Nobody Nobodazine
Foreign Affairs Consulate of Team Doughnut

i sent similar messages to the other nation execept without the little nastyness and i also sent them a picture of some doughnuts.

Anyway my little 2 minute message incouraged a large reply which i think is funny as it must of took them time and well thats funny

Official communique from the Ironic People
Greetings Foreign Affairs Consulate Nobody Nobodazine,

Please excuse the form of this message. My people still have not learned to draw sounds so I am forced to reply the old fashioned way, via slave messenger.

I must say I was quite surprised to recieve a messenger from the Iroqi, our war having gone on for so long. It is a wonderful time for both our peoples, is it not, thanks to this war which has cost both of us so little. I am dismayed that your message refers to our supposed unprovoked act of aggression and subsequent invasion. As you must know we merely rescued some of your women from the Massacre of Cruller. I hardly call that an unprovoked act of aggression. As to our subsequent invasion, I fail to see how the puny force we sent towards your lands could be considered an invasion! Throughout this entire *war* it is the Iroqi who have been the agressors. It was and Iroqi war party that attacked and killed our little band of explorers led by Xerxes. It was Iroqi who razed the town of Cruller. It was crazed Iroqi warriors riding those four legged beasts who attacked the escort of the Ironic minister who was heading towards Iroq for a surprise state visit. It was Iroqi who ambushed our beloved Shahanshah Provolution as he sat guarding the Sacred Jungle. The Ironic soldiers who valiantly perished on that hill and in the Sacred Jungle will live on in Ironic memory forever. In their honor we have dubbed our soldiers Immortals.

Now we will admit that our great Shahanshah, Provolution, did go a tad overboard from time to time in his relations with your people and we can see how that may have contributed to some ill feelings between us, was it really a cause for war? Our Shahanshah has passed on to immortality thanks to your crazed warriors riding those infernal four legged beasts. Yet this is truly a golden age for both our peoples. Why spoil this glorious time with more bloodshed?

The brick wall is no more. Let us try again to negotiate an end to our differences. We only ask for two things.

First, that your people treat us with the respect due to us. Your communique was a good start but accusing us of unwarranted aggression and invasion is neither respectful nor friendly.

Second, as is evidenced by the form of this message, you can see we are a backward people. But if there is to be peace between our people, we feel that we should have a more equal relationship. Your people can draw sounds. Your people can ride the four legged beasts. Your people know the secrets of the Great Doughnut and His mystics. In order for this to be established you will have to teach us the secrets of some of your fine technologies, so that we can better understand you ways and customs.

Do these things and we will have twenty turns of peace. We can offer no guarantees beyond these twenty turns. Your people can look upon this as a brick wall if they choose. We would look upon it as twenty turns that can be used to build ties between our two peoples, twenty turns to work together to form a friendship, twenty turns to prepare for another twenty turns of peace.

Since our differences erupted into armed conflict the world around us has grown. We now know there are other potential friends - and potential enemies - out there. We are not alone and perhaps we should realize that when it comes to this world we are truly on the same side.

I eagerly await your people's response.

donsig
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic people.

well most of it is puffy rubbish but it did show they are lessening their demands. Now they just want our tech, no slaves or tribute. although personally i find this demand outrageous i guess i should show the people. also 20 turns is pointless because this is how long it takes their army to get to us.

should i reply? or should i ignor? my message was just a hello, they are proposing war. i could reply trying to negoiate peace even if we dont intend to sign it. what do ya think?

 

[Robi D]

The response was quite funny, even a touch poetic, looks like our mounted warriors have beaten some sensibilities into their little heads.

I must say its quite a surprise, they have gone from wanting all our tech, gold and workers to just 2 tech, i wonder if we razed one of their cities they would lower their damands even further .

Not that i'm advocating peace but it would bring some benefits, however they wont be getting anything from us. What i would find an exceptable peace agreement it this.

The large strip of jungle is to become a netural zone.
Either side of the netural zone is our respective zones or spheres of influence.
All their units are to leave our zone and go back to the jungle of their zone and ours will do likewise.
Once this happens, any of their units entering our zone or vice versa would be tantamount to a decleration of war.
As for the techs, i am happy to give them writing and horseback riding, however i would ask for currency in return (they just researched maths, which they swapped with MIA, i guarantee they'll be doing currency).

I don't know if anyone else thinks this would be acceptable or not, but this would be the minimum requirements for peace in my view, not that we need to rush to much to make peace as i would like the oppertunity of taking out at least one of their cities.

 

[Nobody]

i agree with you robi, the most important thing is that any agreement secures us, no point making a ceasefire for 20 turns and having their immortals swarm us as soon as the treaty is over. I will draw up a proposal to send off, but there is no need to rush we are wining afterall and really there.

 

[Nobody]

Heres what i think we should reply,

To The Grand Vizeer of the Ironic people.

Dearest Donsig,

Let me start by saying the people of Doughnutia are deeply appreciative of your peace proposal, I was simply sending you a greeting and you return with a grand road map for peace. It is also a very encouraging sign that you have lowered you demands, if both our nations move in this fashion we may be able to build a lasting peace between our people.

What the Ironic people have to understand, the single most important thing for us doughnuts is security. It doesn’t matter how you mix your words, this war of northern aggression was begun by your nation. We have no interest in a ceasefire; we don’t want to give the Ironic military 20 turns to place an invincible army of Immortals on our northern border. For this reason any Peace Treaty we sign would require 30 turns of guaranteed peace and the establishment of a neutral zone between our nations.

As for your requests of technology, the lands of homer will not be extorted, but we are willing to teach you how to read and write, also if you need to know how to mount your beasts our folk will teach you. But as you are aware wars cost money, and this war has wounded both of our economies. From what we understand the ironic people have begun a process of minting there own money or are attempting to discover this technique in exchange for our writing and horseback riding technology we would require the secrets to your currency.

If you agree in principal to these terms I thing the next step we should take is a formal chat to discuss matters things like the Neutral Zone would need much discussion. You must also understand that any peace agreement would need to be ratified by the Doughnutian Legislature.

Thank you for looking over this proposal and we a wait for reply.

Yours magnificently,

Nobotti Nobodaroney
Foreign Affairs Console of Team Doughnut

please comment, also check my spelling ect

 

[DaveShack]

Let's leave this proposal open for discussion for a couple of days at least, as it could be seen by TNT as a genuine offer, and we want to be sure before we make such an offer. We also need to put anything to a vote, make sure in all your communications that nothing is official without approval of the citizens.

30 turns isn't that much more than 20. If we're going to the trouble of talking about a treaty, I'd like to see an estimate of when we'd be ready to beat up on them, and make the peace last at least 5 turns longer than that.

As for terms, we want them to return our women (surrender the workers accompanying their Immos by leaving them undefended prior to the cease fire taking effect) and pay us tribute, maybe 5gpt for 20 turns. If they take these steps then we can discuss technology trading.

The above is really just shooting from the hip, I'm not sure exactly what we should ask for. It's pretty clear we should offer something at least as far off what they would reasonably want as their offer is away from what we would want, so if there is compromise it will end up centered.

At the same time we should line up MIA and/or KISS as an ally so that if TNT breaks a ceace-fire we can get a willing accomplice in knocking them off.

One other random thought, if we were close to MM we could make an agreement which has a clear land neutral zone but leave the water route unspecified. Then if we find ourselves back at war we can have an assault force waiting in international waters.

 

[Nobody]

the best thing about a neutral ground is that our units are faster than theirs if they cross the border we will crush them.