Negotiations with TNT

[Robi D]

Nicely done nobody, a very good response. I agree with daveshack, there is no need to rush and we need a fair amount of discussion as this is a big descition for us. Also it would be good to get one of the other teams on board if can work out an agreement to support us if they try to attack us again. I think we would have a better chance to convince KISS, since they said they would like to steal TNT's furs, and also the fact MIA lied about not having MM makes me suspicious of them. So come people of doughnutia, tell us your views

 

[Alphawolf]

I personally think that this war should not be ended lightly since we have an advatage at the moment and I believe we should explotit that.

But if we do enter into a Peace Agreement I believe these should be included to what DaveShack has said:

1. In addition to the workers that are given to us in any agreement, 5 workers still belonging to TNT should begin to remove the jungle, we get to dictate as to where they work and they can not be escorted. (Robi D could use please PM me, I need some help here.)
2. We are allowed to station 2 MW in the Jungle Neutral Zone.
3. Our warriors, I mean (1,1,1) units not soldiers in general, and non-combat units are not restricted to our Zone, theirs are.
4. Our Navel units that do not carry units are allowed into their coast and sea territory.

Explainations of these demands:

1. Because Immortals can only move one per turn, it won’t help them but it helps us. But the most important reason is they will have to pay for the extra workers and they get them no particular benefits by clearing jungle.
2. This way we make clear that any breach of the Peace will result in the forfeiture of those 5 workers (or as many as we can catch) and a quick reaction force. They won’t be able to take cities with just two of them but they can catch workers, pillage improvements, and to harass them.
3. This way we can keep our eyes on them and can settle any where with a warrior protecting the settler and then ship in troops via the ocean.
4. Self explanatory.

I know that they will not acquiesce to all these demands, but any good bargaining secession begins with demanding more that we expect and thus as they whittle down our demands, they think they are doing good in the bargaining secession when in reality we are giving them freebies.

I’ve color coded these demands to their importance:
Blue --> Most important, must have
Green --> Middling important
Red --> Least important, give away first.

I also support teaching the barbarians who to read and write for the price of all of their tech, half of their treasury and a modest per turn teacher's fee.

-the Wolf

 

[Alphawolf]

Nobody as you requested here is an edited copy of the proposed treaty, one question though: is the spelling of "Vizeer" intentional, it should be Vizier if you are trying for the Ottoman office? I ask because Donsig used the incorrect spelling too. Maybe we can teach them better spelling too.

To The Grand Vizeer of the Ironic people.

Dearest Donsig,

Let me start by saying the people of Doughnutia are deeply appreciative of your peace proposal, I was simply sending you a greeting and you return with a grand road map for peace. It is also a very encouraging sign that you have lowered you demands, if both our nations move in this fashion we may be able to build a lasting peace between our people.

What the Ironic people have to understand, the single most important thing for us doughnuts is security. It doesn’t matter how you mix your words, this war of northern aggression was begun by your nation. We have no interest in a ceasefire; we don’t want to give the Ironic military 20 turns to place an invincible army of Immortals on our northern border. For this reason any Peace Treaty we sign would require 30 turns of guaranteed peace and the establishment of a neutral zone between our nations.

As for your requests of technology, the lands of homer will not be extorted, but we are willing to teach you how to read and write, also if you need to know how to mount your beasts our folk will teach you. But as you are aware wars cost money, and this war has wounded both of our economies. From what we understand the ironic people have begun a process of minting there own money or are attempting to discover this technique in exchange for our writing and horseback riding technology we would require the secrets to your currency.

If you agree in principal to these terms I thing the next step we should take is a formal chat to discuss matters things like the Neutral Zone would need much discussion. You must also understand that any peace agreement would need to be ratified by the Doughnutian Legislature.

Thank you for looking over this proposal and we a wait for reply.

Yours magnificently,

Nobotti Nobodaroney
Foreign Affairs Consul of Team Doughnut

One thing though:unless it was intended as an oblique bestiality insult, “mount your beasts” should probably be reworded.

-the Wolf

 

[Zorn]

I see no reason for peace right now.
The war went nicely, and our troops are superior. We have this advantage now, let`s not waste it. Their immos are good until late mediveal, our riders will be outdated sooner. So postponing the war cannot be in our interest.

Besides, I don`t really care who wins as long as provolution loses. His self-righteous attitude really pissed me off.

 

[DaveShack]

Just to make sure my previous post isn't misunderstood...

Peace may not be a good idea, we've made good progress and are poised to hurt them even more. I'm just saying if we decide to negotiate it should be from a position of strength.

 

[Alphawolf]

Peace may not be a good idea, we've made good progress and are poised to hurt them even more. I'm just saying if we decide to negotiate it should be from a position of strength.

I also believe peace to be a bad idea right now. I do not believe TNT proposal to be sincere. I believe they might except it, but only until MIA is in a better position to help them or whatever devious that is being planed by them comes to fruition. I firmly believe that this is a ploy. I may be paranoid but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

-the Wolf

 

[Nobody]

I agree peace might not be right, but i have no problem making a treaty then not ratifying it.

anyway they see we are in a position of atleast equal strengh if we cant make peace this will increase so its even better.

Alpha Wolf the problem i have with your proposal is that it totally defys the idea of a neutral zone. this is more like a Occupation or a forced demilterised zone. TnT would never agree to it. Thanks for fixing my spelling ect, and as for the title i just took it from them i didnt even know what it meant.

 

[Alphawolf]

I agree peace might not be right, but i have no problem making a treaty then not ratifying it.

anyway they see we are in a position of at least equal strength if we cant make peace this will increase so its even better.

Alpha Wolf the problem i have with your proposal is that it totally defys the idea of a neutral zone. this is more like a Occupation or a forced demilterised zone. TnT would never agree to it. Thanks for fixing my spelling ect, and as for the title i just took it from them i didnt even know what it meant.

You're welcome for the corrections; I work part time for a book publishing company as a contributing editor, so it was nothing new. (Shameless ad, go HERE)

I had never intended for it to be agreeable I was thinking of the Treaty of Versailles, when I came up with it. The only one I find important and must be kept is:

In addition to the workers that are given to us in any agreement, 5 workers still belonging to TNT should begin to remove the jungle, we get to dictate as to where they work and they can not be escorted.

That isn't occupation just slave labor since we can't have any troops in the jungle either. The others were just token point that you would let them negotiate out of.

-the Wolf

 

[magnusmarcus]

I see no reason for peace right now.
The war went nicely, and our troops are superior. We have this advantage now, let`s not waste it. Their immos are good until late mediveal, our riders will be outdated sooner. So postponing the war cannot be in our interest.

Besides, I don`t really care who wins as long as provolution loses. His self-righteous attitude really pissed me off.

I second this point. (The part about provo losing)

 

[Nobody]

Besides, I don`t really care who wins as long as provolution loses. His self-righteous attitude really pissed me off.

I second this point. (The part about provo losing)

Now we canno't allow our amotions to decide matters of state, also i don't think Provolution has been in control until lately (he was at start) maybe he went on a break, He also isnt that bad a guy just a little cocky sometimes.

 

[DaveShack]

Update : TNT has Currency and lacks writing, mysticism, philo, col.

 

[Nobody]

Because the polls indicate we dont want Peace at the moment i will draft and send a message saying that we refuse their demand for Horseback Ridding and Writing.

To The Grand Vizeer of the Ironic people.

Dearest Donsig,

Let me start by saying the people of Doughnutia are deeply appreciative of your peace proposal, I was simply sending you a greeting and you return with a grand road map for peace. It is also a very encouraging sign that you have lowered you demands, if both our nations move in this fashion we may be able to build a lasting peace between our people.

But it is unfortunate that you still feel the need to extort us, you say we should treat you as equals but you continue to demand tribute from us. You too have technology we could use and we if bulit a lasting peace we could exchange technology in a atmosphere of freindship and cooperation.

But as of right now Doughnutia will not meet your demands for Horseback ridding and Writing. At this time we will not sign a Peace treaty that includeds us paying a tribute too you. If you wish us to be equals maybe you should start treating us equally.

That being said we do appreicate your lessening of demands maybe if you could decrease them more then we could end this pointless war.

Yours magnificently,

Nobotti Nobodaroney
Foreign Affairs Consul of Team Doughnut

Please comment before i send it (sometime tomorrow)

 

[vikingruler]

It sounds great. We must remain adamant until we recieve fair terms. Of course destroying TNT is nice to.

 

[Robi D]

i'm happy with the letter as it is.

 

[Nobody]

Dear Nobotti Nobodaroney,

As you can see from the form of this written message, we are no longer quite as backward as we once were. I'm sure a man of your position has already surmised that our latest, and I might add very generous, peace offer is now moot. Fear not, for our recently resumed peace process need not return to a brick wall. My people are quite happy to present new peace terms for your people's consideration.

But first a misunderstanding or two must be clarified. We do not know what extort is but we do know what tribute is. We have maintained since the beginnings of hostilities that your people must pay us a token tribute if there is to be peace between us. That has not changed and will not change. Yes, in this world we are on the same side, and yes, our peoples can be friends - even partners - so long as Iron is the acknowledged leader of the partnership. Iroq can make this acknowledgement by paying the token tribute we ask. I offer my apologies if my last message led you to believe we could be equals.

The token tribute we ask for now consists of the following fine technologies: code of laws, literature and philosophy (a mere pittance). If your people are willing to give any of these for twenty turns of peace then we will happily continue to negotiate with you.

Finally, I am a bit puzzled by your insistance that we have technology you could use. What would this technology be? All we have to offer are a few gold coins.

If your people truly want peace then I am sure we will hear back from you soon. If not then we will surely meet on the battlefield.

Yours truly,
donsig
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic People

And we have their reply. Its a rebuff to our last, They offered a fairish treaty which we as a nation decided to turndown, now they come back to us with this insult. I for one say we dont return a message and we just fight it out on the battlefeild because, if we win the next phase of the war then we set the peace terms or wipe them out. If they win we will need to sue for peace, but as of right now both sides don't really want peace lets just fight it out. I could return some short message basicly saying so be it.

 

[Robi D]

At least we know they got writing for currency from MIA.

 

[Alphawolf]

War is for the best right now. That being said, we must win it!

-the Wolf

 

[vikingruler]

Screw TNT!! They are giving us unagreeable terms of peace that we would be idiots to accept. We can destroy them. Our Mounted Warriors will massacre their pathetic Immortals. The road to peace can only be walked through the a trail of war.

 

[magnusmarcus]

With the recent revelation that we are stronger than them militarily perhaps we should frame a suitable diplomatic response acknowledging that TNT is all talk. Something to the effect that there troops couldn't fight there way out of a wet paper bag?

 

[Emp. Killyouall]

Dear TNT,

I am sorry to disilussion you, but you are sadly mistaken if you think we should pay you tribute. If we would ever take such a despotic and insulting DEMAND then we would be sorry indeed. [go on to demand that they give us 1 tech, 25 gold, and 1gpt for so many turns of peace]. Your army probably couldn't fight their way past a herd of goats. The idea of meeting you on a battlefield is such a joke you might as well sue for peace right now. If all you can lay claim for is 25 gold in the form of a barbarian encampment, you should probably just disband your few remaining heathen Immortals (gosh they go down pretty easily).

Team Doughnut

Anyone feel free to temper this a little, I am still quite mad about their continued demands.