Never Before Seen Civs - Elimination Game

[Returning Lurker]

Argentines 20
Cherokee 15
Goths 32
Hungarians 31
Italians 34-3=31
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 14
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 15
Mughals 27+1=28
Philippines 20

Such opposition, very significant, wow. As for pizza while the Italians developed the initial rudimentary prototype the Americans are the ones who perfected the schematic and made the ultimate Über-pizza, the Chicago Deep Dish. All other pizzas are merely degenerate designs made by backwards savages who have yet to be exposed to the light. They will, in time, bow down before the high crusted walls of perfection.

 

[Guandao]

Argentines 20
Cherokee 15
Goths (32-3)=29 I don't favor them more than the Hungarians or Italians. They had an Eastern Germanic tongue, which is interesting. To me, they are more known for helping destroy the Western Roman empire, then trying to copy the Romans in their administrations, before falling to the Byzantines (Ostrogoths), and the Moors (Visigoths). Their language died out not long after, to the descendants of Latin.
Hungarians 31
Italians 31
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan (14+1)=15 Having both Mali and Songhai in the game would create some overlap, Kanem-Bornu manages to avoid that, being based more around Lake Chad. I noticed how the Songhai city-list would contain some Hausa cities which barely were part of the Songhai Empire. The Hausa are very influential in that region, and probably deserve their own Civ.
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 15
Mughals 28
Philippines 20

edited to take Returning Lurker's votes into account

 

[Zaarin]

It's an interresting food, but I'm not sure if it beats real Italian pizza. I tried one on vacation in Rosolina Mare - incomparable to the supermarket stuff. Also, Italians seem to be masters in making ice cream. The best ice cream I've ever ate was also from there.

Real pizza is good, but it still doesn't beat good Middle Eastern or Indian food--give me lamb kabobs and hummus or paneer butter masala any day. As for ice cream, it makes me sick, so that's pretty irrelevant to me.

 

[luigilime]

Japanese food is officially considered the best in the world though

 

[Zaarin]

Japanese food is officially considered the best in the world though

Only if you like seafood and soy sauce. I hate both.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Japanese food is officially considered the best in the world though

I never tried it, so I can't judge

(It's interresting how a discussion about never before seen Civs eventually ended as a discussion about food. Also, that made me feel hungry.)

 

[luigilime]

Where we talk about Italy we always are going to talk about food

 

[God of Kings]

There's also gelato, which is like ice cream, except made with whole milk. It has a stronger flavour than ice cream, itself having a stronger flavour than those cheap grocery store frozen dessert.

 

[Amrunril]

Argentines 20
Cherokee 16 (15 + 1) While their assimilation attempts may have been a mistake historically (arguably- it's not as if their neighbors who pursued different strategies ultimately fared better), I'd actually say they're a plus in terms of developing an interesting civ. Perhaps the leader ability could focus on assimilating aspects of other civs/adopting their civics and technologies, with the civ ability and uniques remaining rooted in traditional culture.
Goths 29
Hungarians 28 (31 - 3) A mid-sized power on an already heavily represented continent. That wouldn't necessarily be a problem if there were other strong reasons to include them, but the impression I'm getting is that people want to see them because they're a mid-sized power in a familiar region, and I don't find that at all compelling.
Italians 31
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 15
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 15
Mughals 28
Philippines 20

 

[Zaarin]

Argentines 20
Cherokee 13 (16 - 3) -- I still maintain that of all the Southeastern groups, only the Seminole make less sense for inclusion. Yes, in the long run no strategy of resisting or accommodating the US was effective for any tribe; the Iroquois strategy of playing the powers against each other might have worked had they not abandoned it--but since they did abandon it the world will never know. That being said, some strategies were more effective than others; the Cherokee got actively screwed over by their half-white American-educated leadership--and made no attempt to resist it as the Creek did in the Red Stick War. Overall, the Chickasaw were much more effective than either group at resisting American interests in the longrun; had they not sided with the Confederacy in the Civil War (I don't think there was a right choice in that mess--the Chickasaw were screwed one way or another), perhaps they wouldn't have been relocated. tl;dr: The Cherokee didn't just assimilate, they screwed themselves; the Chickasaw were more effective at defending their own interests, and the Creek at least made an attempt to resist it.
Goths 30 (29 + 1) -- The Ostrogoths didn't fall to the Byzantines; they were allies of the Byzantines. They fell to the Magyars and Slavs (and NB the Crimean Goths continued to speak their language into the tenth century). Plus it was the Goths who effectively killed Western Rome.
Hungarians 28
Italians 31
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 15
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 15
Mughals 28
Philippines 20

 

[Kimiimaro]

Argentines 20
Cherokee 13
Goths 30
Hungarians 28
Italians 31+1=32 - Let's continue in the endless fight against @Returning Lurker
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 15
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 15-3=12 - I lack interrest in this part of Europe.
Mughals 28
Philippines 20

 

[Returning Lurker]

I wouldn't exactly call it endless. Not unless the laws of math suddenly stop existing and we start adding more points to the total pool despite losing a cumulative 2 with every vote... wait, did anyone here research math? Or writing, for that matter? It'd be a shame if we had to shut this thread down because we lacked the prerequisite techs.

 

[Xandinho]

Argentines 20
Cherokee 13
Goths 30 + 1 = 31 I think Italy should not lead alone.
Hungarians 28
Italians 32
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 15 - 3 = 12 I'm not interested
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 12
Mughals 28
Philippines 20

 

[RFormica]

Argentines 20 - 3 = 17 Leugi has already made a very well-done Argentine civ with two leaders, and I don't think it needs any more than that. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=910530559&searchtext=argentina
Cherokee 13
Goths 31
Hungarians 28
Italians 32
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 12
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 12 + 1 = 13 Yes please! The Baltic area is very significant and should be represented accordingly. Give me Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, or Finland. (Or Prussia. Or Livonia. Or the Teutonic Knights/Teutonic Prussia. Or Pomerania.)
Mughals 28
Philippines 20

 

[luigilime]

Argentines 17
Cherokee 13
Goths 31
Hungarians 28
Italians 32+1=33
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 12-3=9 do not interess me
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 13
Mughals 28
Philippines 20

 

[The Kingmaker]

Argentines 17
Cherokee 13
Goths 31
Hungarians 28
Italians 33+1=34 Continued support for the best option.
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 9
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 13
Mughals 28
Philippines 20-3=17 They've lasted a lot longer than last time, and now's probably a good time for them to bow out.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

It's an interresting food, but I'm not sure if it beats real Italian pizza. I tried one on vacation in Rosolina Mare - incomparable to the supermarket stuff. Also, Italians seem to be masters in making ice cream. The best ice cream I've ever ate was also from there.

Ah, but the best 'Italian' pizza in the world was in Italian restaurants in West Berlin in the late 1960s - Italian Foreign Workers who discovered they could make a much better living opening a restaurant than cleaning the streets, and an extremely international clientele (even Soviet officers would occasionally come over to visit and eat) to push them to excellence. For one more slice from Rosario's or Zum Jager's on Breitenbach Platz I would cheerfully give up body parts - alas, both are long gone...
- And as for Indian food, the food of Northwest India is simply superb. One of the few times I've ever agreed with Anthony Bourdain was when he said that in the Punjab was the one place in the world where he, the Ultimate Carnivore, could become a vegetarian and be happy.

- And now, back to our regularly scheduled Eliminations...

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Argentines 17
Cherokee 10 (13 - 3) - As repeatedly already, the Chickasaw or Choctaw for preference among the 'civilized tribes' not the Cherokee.
Goths 31
Hungarians 28
Italians 34
Kanem Bornu/Other Saharan 9
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 14 (13 + 1) Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Teutonic Knights, Hanseatics, nor miscellaneous Slavs need not apply: Finns all the way. Real ability to exploit the Tundra, reindeer sleds, saunas, advanced wood crafting and architecture, exceptional forest/swamp/winter fighters, Nokia phones - okay, maybe not that last one...
Mughals 28
Philippines 17

 

[Guandao]

I don't really understand the love for a Gothic Civilization expressed here by some.
I don't believe the Ostrogoths were destroyed by the Magyars and Slavs, who came to the region much later than when they dominated Italy. Remember Justinian and his general Belisarius? They tried to take back Italy, and ended up destroying the Ostrogothic Kingdom. Totila was one of the last Ostrogothic Kings in Italy. After that, the Lombards would come in and take over a large part of Italy. The Goths seem to be remembered only for their association with Rome's fall, and perhaps being a faction in Age of Empires 2.

In TSL Earth map logic, the Goths aren't a priority. Where will they start specifically? In Iberia, or Italia, or even in Poland?
Honestly, if it comes down to Goths vs Italians, I would support Italians in a heartbeat.

 

[Zaarin]

In TSL Earth map logic, the Goths aren't a priority. Where will they start specifically? In Iberia, or Italia, or even in Poland?

Personally I couldn't care less about TSL (I really don't understand the appeal at all; Civ is a 4X game, not grand strategy), but for those that do I think it goes without saying that they would start in Eastern Europe, probably in eastern Poland--i.e., the Gothic homeland. I suppose an argument could also be made for a Ukraine/Russia start, since that's where they lasted the longest.