Never before seen wonders II - Elimination Thread

[God of Kings]

Bayt al-Hikma - 38
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 30
Grand Bazaar of Istanbul - 5 + 1 = 6 Ottomans need a wonder
Oost-Indisch Huis - 35
Palace of Knossos - 30
Tāq Kasrā - 24
Temple of Jupiter in Baalbek - 3 - 3 = ELIMINATED Now, it's guaranteed that a religious wonder won't win this round
Uraniborg - 38

 

[Guandao]

Bayt al-Hikma - 38
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - (30+1)=31 There were multiple Mayan observatories? I still think it's better off as a wonder than a Library replacement. I really need more proof that multiple versions of this structure existed.
Grand Bazaar of Istanbul -6
Oost-Indisch Huis - (35-3)=32 Perhaps the Netherlands are important enough to merit a wonder, but I'm still not convinced this is the best choice for it. It doesn't really stand out to me. I would pass by this building without noticing it. Only thing going for it is that it was HQ to Dutch East India Company.
Palace of Knossos - 30
Tāq Kasrā - 24
Uraniborg - 38

@Kimiimaro Why should I care if the Dutch founded New York City?
I personally find them to be uninteresting in Civ. They always have Willem van Oranje as the leader. Their Civ5 ability was rather meh. And I didn't get to build the Polder due to lack of marshland.

 

[Guatenadian]

Bayt al-Hikma - 38
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 31
Grand Bazaar of Istanbul -3 (6-3) If were going to have economic wonder, I would rather have Oost-Indisch Huis. The Grande Bazaar can serve as a unique building.
Oost-Indisch Huis - 33 (32+1) I have to agree, the Dutch influence in the world is astronomical, they deserve a wonder.
Palace of Knossos - 30
Tāq Kasrā - 24
Uraniborg - 38

The other Canadian has returned.

 

[Siptah]

Bayt al-Hikma - 38
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 31
Grand Bazaar of Istanbul - 3
Oost-Indisch Huis - 33
Palace of Knossos - 30
Tāq Kasrā - 21 (24-3) You could include the most impressive thing from this palace (the carpet) by making it a special Great Work, that comes with the building, like civ V's Parthenon. Making it have slots fro Great Works would, however, just make it more similar to the Apadana than it already is (being a Persian Palace wonder). Compare it to Versailles and Sanssouci - both are from different eras as well and are distinctive enough - but would you really want both in the game?
Uraniborg - 39 (38+1) If I compare this to the Caracol, there is no chance for the Caracol to fair better. Uraniborg is unique, not just as a building, but also it's history. It would also be a nice addition since Tyhco Brahe didn't make it to be a GS.

Spoiler :

There were multiple Mayan observatories? [...] I really need more proof that multiple versions of this structure existed.

The structure of the classical Maya cities, being more or less independent and in a constant competition (just like the city states in classical Greece, making the Maya an excellent choice for two leaders as well) leads to the expectation that every major city had one. Now, the remains of all cities don't provide clues if that was the case or present likely buildings for that. There are quite a few however. The Encyclopedia of the Ancient Maya (2015) edited by Witschey has an entry "Astronomical Observatories" in which it lists some cities with buildings that are probably connected with Skywatching. The paragraph mentions El Caracol as the most famous example, but also notes that it would be better described as planetarium or theater in the built environment. From memory, I would say that Ceibal, Acanceh, and Uaxactun are the best known. Acanceh can compete with El Caracol in terms of "beauty" of the remains, but it is far less famous, because it is a) not in Chichen Itza and b) was discovered in the last 20 years.

 

[Morningcalm]

Bayt al-Hikma - 38
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 31
Grand Bazaar of Istanbul - 3
Oost-Indisch Huis - 33 - 3 = 30 (Remarkably unimpressive, and everyone is upvoting it only because it's Dutch. Also, it only has 17 reviews on TripAdvisor, and is located in the Red Light District of Amsterdam, so it's clearly NOT a tourist draw. This reminds me of the many French chateaus which are not known because of how dull they are. This is NOT a world wonder. At best a Dutch unique building can be based off it, like a trade headquarters or something. Does not deserve to be uttered in the same sentence as any of the others on this list, even the Bazaar.)
Palace of Knossos - 30 + 1 = 31 (Much more visually interesting, with greater historic flavor than the above. Could have some interesting archaeology-related bonuses, or population/religious bonuses, as it was the ceremonial and political center of the entirety of Minoan civilization.)
Tāq Kasrā -21 Your arguments against this wonder are not convincing, Siptah. The carpet is hardly the best known feature of this wonder (I never even heard of it until you mentioned it, and Google searching for this carpet reveals no solid results), and the French have plenty of wonders already without anyone batting an eyelid. Why does Persia not deserve more than one wonder, given how glorious their architecture was in general, and given how distinct they were? Also re: Versailles and Sanssouci, both are far more similar in style than the Achaemenid Apadana (antiquity) and the Sasanian Taq Kasra (Sasanian style was adopted by later Muslim empires).
Uraniborg - 39

 

[Xandinho]

Bayt al-Hikma - 38 + 1 = 39 Balancing with Uraniborg
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 31
Grand Bazaar of Istanbul - 3 - 3 = 0 Eliminated. This is better as UD of the Ottomans
Oost-Indisch Huis - 30
Palace of Knossos - 31
Tāq Kasrā -21
Uraniborg - 39

 

[Kimiimaro]

Bayt al-Hikma - 39
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 31-3=28 - Something has to go, and I think Uraniborg would be a better observatory wonder.
Oost-Indisch Huis - 30+1=31 - Not upvoting just for being Dutch. Also upvoting for its importance and for my desire for a trade/luxuries wonder. Also, I don't find the building that boring. I actually quite like it.
Palace of Knossos - 31
Tāq Kasrā -21
Uraniborg - 39

 

[Guandao]

Bayt al-Hikma - 39
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - (28+1)=29 Why would Uraniborg be a better observatory wonder? Because it's European? I still think this has a place in the game. It would come earlier than Uraniborg. Only argument I would accept is that it's better off as a unique library for the Maya.
Oost-Indisch Huis - (31-3)=28 I know Civ5 has the National wonder East India Company, but I'm not enthusiastic about this getting in the game. The appearance of the building doesn't stand out to me. Perhaps this, Knossos, or Taq Kasra should go next....
Palace of Knossos - 31
Tāq Kasrā -21
Uraniborg - 39

Tis the Top six....who will be number 1?

 

[Guatenadian]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40 (39+1) Whats better than the House of Wisdom for a scientific wonder?
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 29
Oost-Indisch Huis -28
Palace of Knossos - 28 (31-3) Its a great palace, but do we really need a wonder from Crete? Especially when the Eastern Mediterranean is already a very wonder heavy place?
Tāq Kasrā -21
Uraniborg - 39

 

[Siptah]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 29
Oost-Indisch Huis -28
Palace of Knossos - 28 Oh, archeology's monument of shame is still here? I really forgot about it. Next time.
Tāq Kasrā -18 (21-3) Iran was and is a area with a multitude of architectural wonders, they could do with two in the game, no doubt about that. I just don't see a reason for two palaces (and I'm aware of the differences, thanks, doesn't change the comparison). We already voted on Naqsh-e Rustam, which I would prefer over another palace. Some might say that it is Achaemenid again and prefer something else. For the Arsacids, there isn't much besides palaces that could be a wonder (most remains are cities). For the Sassanids, it is similar: lots of palaces and the occasional fire temple with a nice dome. So to me it seems the best way to choose an islamic wonder of Iran - I suggested a few already. And honestly, I'm really puzzled how it should be possible to know anything substantial about Taq Kasra, Sassanid architecture or the Sasanians in general without knowing about the carpet. I stumble(d) on it all the time, even in books on topics like Persepolis or Isfahan, that shouldn't include it. And I'm surprised about Morningcalm's googling skills. For me, the first result is a short but solid article from the Britannica followed by numerous google books entries about Persian culture or history, and carpets, not to talk about google scholar results.
Uraniborg - 40 (39+1) I think it's importance for the history of science and technology is undisputed. On top of that, it's way more unique than El Caracol in appearance and would look much nicer and special than Bayt al-Hikma on the map. The only thing that holds this back is that I'm hoping for a general observatory building as an alternative to the university or library. I'm not sure if a unique one would be the best choice in such a case.

 

[God of Kings]

Uraniborg:

Great Scientists lose their noses.

 

[Xandinho]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 29
Oost-Indisch Huis - 28
Palace of Knossos - 28
Tāq Kasrā - 18 - 3 = 15 I really like this structure, and would like to have it as a wonder, but I prefer the wonders other wonders remaining. Also, I prefer to have the Naqsh-e Rustam as a second Persian wonder, it is much more distinctive and important.
Uraniborg - 40 + 1 = 41 Maybe it's the best option for an astronomical observatory like wonder, even though I really like El Caracol. I would like to have a wonder of Scandinavia, we already have two from Mesoamerica.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 29
Oost-Indisch Huis - 28+1=29 - The Netherlands deserve a wonder, and I'd like to see another trade/luxuries wonder.
Palace of Knossos - 28
Tāq Kasrā - 15-3=12 - While it's a nice palace, what kind of bonus could it offer? Also, Apadana is already a Persian palace wonder, and while Persia is one of the Civs that actually deserve two wonders, I guess Naqsh-e Rustam would make a better choice.
Uraniborg - 41

 

[Guandao]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - (29+1)=30 Another point for the Mayan observatory. I'm hoping it at least makes the top 4.
Oost-Indisch Huis - (29-3)=26 I like Taq Kasra too much to downvote it, so the Dutch East India Company HQ takes the hit. It seem like a trade/luxury wonder is needed, but is this the best choice?
Palace of Knossos - 28
Tāq Kasrā - 12
Uraniborg - 41

 

[Guatenadian]

Great Scientists lose their noses.

Just a lot of Voldemorts running around on the screen.

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 30
Oost-Indisch Huis - 27 (26+1) The Dutch deserve a wonder.
Palace of Knossos - 28
Tāq Kasrā - 9 (12-3) Lets end the suffering of the Taq Kasra.
Uraniborg - 41

 

[Xandinho]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 30 - 3 = 27 I really like this structure, but I prefer Uraniborg
Oost-Indisch Huis - 27 + 1 = 28 I continue to support this, I am still not convinced that this has no merit just because it is not visually impressive, I think its great historical importance makes up for it.
Palace of Knossos - 28
Tāq Kasrā - 9
Uraniborg - 41

 

[Morningcalm]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 27
Oost-Indisch Huis - 28 - 3 = 25 (There are very few, if any structural wonders that are chosen simply for historical importance or a nationalistic desire to have a Dutch wonder in the game, especially when a world wonder is one of the last things (if ever even) one thinks of when the Netherlands is mentioned)
Palace of Knossos - 28 + 1 = 29 (Should at least outlast the erroneously present Dutch wonder by virtue of its impressive style, historical importance, and addition to time period diversity.)
Tāq Kasrā - 9 The fact that it's a Persian palace should not disqualify it. Also, the Apadana is an audience hall for visiting emissaries etc, not a palace as such. Furthermore, as earlier mentioned and simply brushed aside by detractors, the style of this massive ruined archway is sufficiently different from the Apadana to be worth inclusion. (Fewer differences are extant between the numerous European wonders we already have had in the Civ series.) Furthermore, the Naqsh-e Rustam is not here so it's irrelevant, hunk of necropolis rock (aka Jebel Barkal wonder reworked) though it is. And no, the first thing one thinks of with regard to the Taq Kasra wonder is not the carpet (lol). Same is true for most world wonders. It's a pointless arena of discussion since, unlike the Sistine Chapel, the distinguishing feature of this Ctesiphon wonder is not a piece of art inside it.
Uraniborg - 41

 

[Kimiimaro]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 27
Oost-Indisch Huis - 25+1=26 - Maybe it's less known and maybe it doesn't look very interesting, but what? To be honest, I didn't hear of almost any of the wonders that appeared in this round (well, maybe for some exceptions, like Bayt al-Hikma). And while it isn't the most interesting by it appearance, I think it would make a good Dutch wonder, just because how important the VOC was. Oh, and I desire a good trade wonder or a wonder that could do something with luxury resources. And Oost-Indish Huis is a good option for such wonder.
Palace of Knossos - 29
Tāq Kasrā - 9-3=6 - What kind of bonus could it give? I can easily imagine bonuses for El Caracol, Uraniborg, Bayt al-Hikma and Oost-Indisch Huis. However, I'm not sure about good bonus for it. Also, I'd rather have something different than palace.
Uraniborg - 41

 

[Morningcalm]

To answer Kimiimaro's question briefly (noting the temporal proximity of my earlier post, I hope this brief addendum to my earlier post is accepted herewith): the Taq Kasra is an architectural marvel due to its having the "largest man-made, free standing vault constructed until modern times" and is thereby considered "a landmark in the history of architecture". As a palace, it survived both Parthian and Sasanian dynasties, is the only part of the Parthian and Sasanian cities now still surviving above ground, was used a mosque by Arabs briefly, and inspired the medieval poet Khaqani. So it's a symbol of national pride to some extent, as well as an architectural marvel and ancient wonder. (It's also the Persian wonder in Age of Empires II).

So several bonuses are possible-- Great Architect bonuses are obvious; as a seat of royal pride I think it could have another government card related bonus (we have Potala Palace and the Forbidden City already, but they don't cover all the slots available), and some tourism-related bonus as a nod to it surviving all those successive dynasties could be nice. Or maybe something that boosts government legacy bonuses. Plenty of choices abound.

 

[Siptah]

Bayt al-Hikma - 40
El Caracol of Chichen Itza - 27
Oost-Indisch Huis - 26
Palace of Knossos - 29 I'd like to down vote it, but can't without a page long rant, so I'll wait until I can do it without that.
Tāq Kasrā - 3- (6-3) Yes, it is a landmark of modern Iraq, and yes the Iwan is impressive. But size isn't everything, there are many Iwans I'd prefer to this one. I also don't like they heavy leaning towards Byzantine architecture this one has (it was probably built to a large extent by Byzantines). One the other hand it's not that interesting a building and (to my knowledge) never attracted archeologists or many scholars (in contrast to many other Arsacid or Sassanid remains). Modern day nationalists like it, however. If it wasn't for one of the most famous carpets in history...
Uraniborg - 42 (41+1) as above, also trying to get some distance between the House of Wisdom and this one.