New Beta Version - August 19th (8/19)

[Bruhmoment]

Just shoot the city with ten muskets. they do 50%-75% of the damage so once you lose a turn for moving up the cannon cannons don't do that much more damage. If you have a full arc around a city it doesn't take that long to kill it with archer units and if you don't have full control you won't be able to bring many siege units in safely. So they don't get many shots off before having to pull back to heal but having more doesn't change much. You might shave 1-2 turns off taking a city but that is the easy part.

If you are winning easily then sure you can pummel down a city with lots of siege units but when things are harder archer units fill more roles and can still take a city.

Well obviously surrounding a city with ten muskets is good, just get a GG and they'll do all the damage. But if you say ten muskets, you need open terrain for that. If it's rough terrain blocked with jungle, obviously siege units are better.
Ranged units are more for killing off the nuisances (otherwise called units) than bombarding cities, but if the terrain is right they're definitely viable.
This argument is more or less pointless considering all of this depends on the land

 

[Stalker0]

Just shoot the city with ten muskets. they do 50%-75% of the damage so once you lose a turn for moving up the cannon cannons don't do that much more damage. If you have a full arc around a city it doesn't take that long to kill it with archer units and if you don't have full control you won't be able to bring many siege units in safely. So they don't get many shots off before having to pull back to heal but having more doesn't change much. You might shave 1-2 turns off taking a city but that is the easy part.

If you are winning easily then sure you can pummel down a city with lots of siege units but when things are harder archer units fill more roles and can still take a city.

If the city is so lightly defended you can park 10 ranged units around it, you can basically kill it with anything.

 

[Bruhmoment]

If the city is so lightly defended you can park 10 ranged units around it, you can basically kill it with anything.

Pretty much. Not possible if someone has arsenals

 

[stii]

If the city is so lightly defended you can park 10 ranged units around it, you can basically kill it with anything.

I mean it is lightly defended because I killed all their units with those ranged units. Siege is so much worse at killing units while ranged is not that much worse at killing cities. and it is so much easier to surround with ranged units and pull them back when damage, while siege units can only pull back from a few select spots.

 

[ridjack]

the AI doesn't mass siege units

Spoiler :

 

[Rekk]

@Recursive Asked a question a couple posts up, would like to know so I can add it to Github if necessary.

You can always just add it to github. If the issue you created is not a bug, the contributors there have no problem saying that it's intended and closing the issue.

 

[ridjack]

The more I think about this conversation, the more I think we need to talk about buffing melee and/or nerfing ranged again.

When this guy...

Spoiler :

...can almost get one-rounded by three measly catapults and a city attack while in open terrain with a GG boosting him, something's not right.

 

[Bruhmoment]

The more I think about this conversation, the more I think we need to talk about buffing melee and/or nerfing ranged again.

When this guy...

Spoiler :

...can almost get one-rounded by three measly catapults and a city attack while in open terrain with a GG boosting him, something's not right.

One big thing - you can spam melee. This pretty much means veterans are useless lol
But caps? Those definitely shouldn't be able to kill your spearman, although they are really weak so..

 

[YoullPay4ThisInTime]

Does anyone else feel like the AI doesn't produce explorers early enough (if at all) ? It puts them at a pretty big disadvantage on maps with large unconquered continents.
Also explorer are pretty useful in warfare if use correctly.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Does anyone else feel like the AI doesn't produce explorers early enough (if at all) ? It puts them at a pretty big disadvantage on maps with large unconquered continents.
Also explorer are pretty useful in warfare if use correctly.

Actually, yeah. I never have seen them make a scout beyond their starting one, I go into IGE and I see that they have barely explored anything, only the surrounding area. UNLESS if an A.I has a scout replacement, then they spam that like no problem.

 

[Recursive]

Good news, everyone!

I found the major bug with the AI's Voluntary Vassalage willingness.

To compare relative tech percent, the AI was intended to do this calculation:
(Our Techs * 100) / Their Techs

But instead it was doing this:
Our Techs / Their Techs

So the AI would often believe itself to have ~1% of the tech of their new master and add a huge bonus to their voluntary vassalage willingness.

This has been fixed for the next version, so if you turned off voluntary vassalage because of it, I recommend giving it a shot again once the next version comes out.

Thank you to the person who reported it on Github! Remember everyone, reporting bugs on Github gets them fixed!

 

[Recursive]

@Recursive While I've got your ear with small grammatical annoyances, there are a few lines of dialogue that use "singular" language even when mentioning civs that have a plural name; e.g.; "The Huns is nothing but trouble." Anything we can do about this?

There is a way to fix this but it's complicated because of how Firaxis set up the text system. I'll fix eventually.

 

[YoullPay4ThisInTime]

Anyone knows what's happening here ? The city is being sieged and I have a spy in it. It lists lots of building ready for construction that have already been built and other of weird stuff.
Is this just a display bug ? I should mention that the city has never been captured before.

 

[azum4roll]

You shouldn't even see that list of buildings.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Anyone knows what's happening here ? The city is being sieged and I have a spy in it. It lists lots of building ready for construction that have already been built and other of weird stuff.
Is this just a display bug ? I should mention that the city has never been captured before.
View attachment 607905

I haven't tried the new patch, but what happened there?
Oh that's why the A.I kept vassaling to someone else and me, they thought they were behind.
I still don't understand why I only have one movement in fog

 

[YoullPay4ThisInTime]

You shouldn't even see that list of buildings.

This is what I get after reloading a save from the same turn a while later. Clearing cache doesn't do anything but this just seem to be a display bug. Might be because of the new spy system.

 

[Bruhmoment]

This is what I get after reloading a save from the same turn a while later. Clearing cache doesn't do anything but this just seem to be a display bug. Might be because of the new spy system.
View attachment 607910

I didn't see anyone else post this, so this could be a mod conflict.
But most likely the spy system because it's really buggy as of right now

 

[Stalker0]

The more I think about this conversation, the more I think we need to talk about buffing melee and/or nerfing ranged again.

When this guy...

Spoiler :

...can almost get one-rounded by three measly catapults and a city attack while in open terrain with a GG boosting him, something's not right.

I see it the opposite. By the time catapults come out, spearman are not premier melee units, they are basically conscripts, common foot soldiers.

the fact that your unit held against 4 full ranged attacks and survived is pretty solid to me.

the swordsman is the unit at that time period thst is meant to be the true ranged tank.

 

[ridjack]

I see it the opposite. By the time catapults come out, spearman are not premier melee units, they are basically conscripts, common foot soldiers.

the fact that your unit held against 4 full ranged attacks and survived is pretty solid to me.

the swordsman is the unit at that time period thst is meant to be the true ranged tank.

Three of those attacks come from units that have a huge malus against land units, and they were all hitting a unit at full strength, fortified, in his favored terrain, with a ton of extra defense. If any one of those things had not been true, he'd have been wiped out. A Swordsman in the same situation, without the addition of Formation would have fared maybe one turn better; more likely, he'd have ended up with higher HP but it still would not have been enough to survive a second turn, so the effect is the same.

(Also I'm playing with Pdan's tweaks and I keep forgetting to turn off his swordsman changes. )

 

[AndreyK]

I agree with Stalker0, I don't find that melee units underpowered, I find range units very fragile. In my games I use lots of melee and range units - they serve their purposes well enough.