(8-12) New Beta Patch (Hotfix 6)

[stii]

That's... awful. At first blush, that sounds like a huge nerf to the player and/or a huge buff to the AI.

EDIT: Another, different puppet had two laborers while there a TON of open tiles to work.

Why? It seems like a buff to puppets to me. The puppet penalty is so huge that any building tends to be negative except the super early ones.

 

[ridjack]

Why? It seems like a buff to puppets to me. The puppet penalty is so huge that any building tends to be negative except the super early ones.

Hmm. I can see the logic in this, but my intuitive brain doesn't like it. Guess I need to play with it some more.

My initial reaction came from wanting to annex one of my early-game puppeted capitals and realizing that it would have NO infrastructure.

 

[notaspambot]

  - Increased bonus/penalty for the AI liking/disliking a player's World Congress resolution
  - Nerfed wonder spammer penalty, but allowed it to apply farther once AI can cross the ocean
  - Nerfed penalties for religious conversion

Some of the changes to opinions seem to be more than just a hotfix; is there any context behind them? I'm particularly curious about the above three. The increased penalties for resolutions also makes me a bit sad, as setting up wildly unpopular resolutions has been a very useful tool to "control" the congress, so to speak.

Thanks for the continued efforts on maintaining the patch.

 

[Recursive]

  - Increased bonus/penalty for the AI liking/disliking a player's World Congress resolution
  - Nerfed wonder spammer penalty, but allowed it to apply farther once AI can cross the ocean
  - Nerfed penalties for religious conversion

Some of the changes to opinions seem to be more than just a hotfix; is there any context behind them? I'm particularly curious about the above three. The increased penalties for resolutions also makes me a bit sad, as setting up wildly unpopular resolutions has been a very useful tool to "control" the congress, so to speak.

Thanks for the continued efforts on maintaining the patch.

Wonder spammer could go as high as -200, which I considered too high relative to other dispute modifiers (which have maximums of 66-83), so it needed a nerf. I dropped it to a max of -133 (with 10 Wonder Competitiveness on Deity, and if you're building that many Wonders on Deity you probably deserve a penalty that high).

Religious conversion was too high (in Medieval a typical city would get you -36 opinion per conversion lasting 50 turns; and this is on top of the penalty for different religions AND the penalty for ignoring the promise). I cut the penalty and the duration in half, hopefully that's sufficient, but I'm thinking the penalty might need to be cut in half again...

I felt +/- 15 wasn't impactful enough compared to the voting for/against, considering the score thresholds for the higher bonuses were pretty high (so I bumped them all up +15). In addition I'm going to remove the "they consider you an ally/rival" modifier and replace it with a "voting history modifier", hopefully in the near future, but if there's going to be a modifier for how the player has voted, to keep WC diplomacy dynamic I want liking/disliking to remain an effective tool to make AIs like/hate you.

I've been working on a detailed guide covering every single opinion modifier, which I should post within a few days, and revising them as I go along. That's why there's been so much work on opinion modifiers.

 

[ridjack]

Is poverty out of control for anyone else? Every game looks like this for me, lately.

Spoiler :

 

[azum4roll]

EDIT: Another, different puppet had two laborers while there a TON of open tiles to work.

Governor problem. They sometimes work lots of laborers for no reason.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Is poverty out of control for anyone else? Every game looks like this for me, lately.

Spoiler :

To be entirely honest, poverty has ALWAYS been a problem for me, newest patch or not
What am I supposed to do when my city is unhappiness in poverty when I'm conquering stuff, I'm probably not the only one but only for the start of the game I'm at above 50 happiness, after that haha good luck getting out of unhappiness hell

 

[Legen]

I'm also having some insane amount of poverty in every city, no matter the build and civ. It has been hard to stay over 50% happiness even with Tradition and a civ with gold bonuses.

I was suspecting the AI getting too much gold sources somehow, as they were constantly on twice or thrice my gold output, but maybe something else is off.

 

[ridjack]

I want to make sure this is a bug before I report it: I backstabbed Germany in my current game (had friendship, declared war), and it doesn't seem to have affected anything. I have the `Backstabbed Germany` negative mod, but none of the AIs are showing an opinion malus except Germany themselves. In fact, I have multiple Declarations of Friendship that were all offered to me AFTER the backstab occurred.

 

[Recursive]

I want to make sure this is a bug before I report it: I backstabbed Germany in my current game (had friendship, declared war), and it doesn't seem to have affected anything. I have the `Backstabbed Germany` negative mod, but none of the AIs are showing an opinion malus except Germany themselves. In fact, I have multiple Declarations of Friendship that were all offered to me AFTER the backstab occurred.

Not a bug. They might not have met Germany. Sometimes, the AI may be willing to overlook your backstabbing if they like you or dislike the other guy sufficiently, especially if they have low Loyalty. This is intended.

 

[ridjack]

Not a bug. They might not have met Germany. Sometimes, the AI may be willing to overlook your backstabbing if they like you or dislike the other guy sufficiently, especially if they have low Loyalty. This is intended.

They definitely met him; we're all bunched up together on the same continent. But good to know! Glad I didn't report.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Is poverty out of control for anyone else? Every game looks like this for me, lately.

Spoiler :

Yeah, I noticed this too, poverty is in most cases my main source for unhappiness too.

 

[ridjack]

Why is this city not blockaded? It's been a couple turns and a few attacks since it was surrounded.

Spoiler :

 

[looorg]

Is poverty out of control for anyone else? Every game looks like this for me, lately.

I don't think that has changed lately. Isn't that just a matter of how the game (and unhappiness) is processed. Production and Poverty are processed higher, or before, then the rest so they eat all the unhappiness. Since a city can't be unhappier then the population size it just eats it all. That said it's more or less impossible to do anything about it until the very late stages of the game so you really just have to work around it.

 

[Bromar1]

They probably shouldn't be running the Defense process if there's no enemies around or health to be healed, though.

Yeah, that has worse mouthfeel than just eating the maintenance costs for buildings

 

[stii]

I don't think that has changed lately. Isn't that just a matter of how the game (and unhappiness) is processed. Production and Poverty are processed higher, or before, then the rest so they eat all the unhappiness. Since a city can't be unhappier then the population size it just eats it all. That said it's more or less impossible to do anything about it until the very late stages of the game so you really just have to work around it.

It is more than just that though. Even if you get the unhappy below the city cap poverty is often still more than the other put together. It seems there are more reductions for others than poverty and gold producing buildings are often worse.

 

[Recursive]

Hotfix #6 posted. Savegame compatible. Changelog:

- Hopefully fixed the bug with the AI making DPs above the limit
- Fixed AIs sometimes double-counting the same DP in the limit
- Resurrected AIs no longer make Defensive Pacts with / voluntarily capitulate to teams other than their liberator (and must agree to a DP with their liberator)
- Added global backstabbing penalties for declaring war on your own vassal, declaring war on a civ you resurrected
- Cleaned up backstabbing penalty code
- Fixed corner case bug where City-States affected major civ diplo checks
- Moved C4DF approach weights to DiploApproachWeights.sql
- Moved C4DF opinion weights to DiploOpinionWeights.sql
- Fix message priority for backstabbing penalties
- Trade Route RecentTradeValue uses base XML flavors, not the broken grand strategy flavors

Hotfixed folders have been added to the original post. To apply the hotfix, just download them and install them as you would the patch itself.

 

[Padre19]

AI - very long wars, sometimes for two eras

 

[ridjack]

AI - very long wars, sometimes for two eras

I think this is just because they (correctly) won't give up a conquest war they're winning.

 

[abulafia77]

As it almost slipped past me: Gazebo is back and has formally released a new beta version (almost the same as hotfix 6), so discussion should probably move there: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/new-beta-version-august-19th-8-19.672553/