New Buildings: Final Stage

[Thalassicus]

I'd be okay with that. I always felt it was weird to have Seaports and such without a harbor... how are the ships docking? Swapping the effect with the lighthouse will make the harbor something we definitely want to build, without overpowering both buildings. Should we rephrase the connection text so it's more realistic for the lighthouse?

The old wording was:
"Connects water and land trade routes."

How about something like...
"Safely connects land to sea trade routes."

The "connection" angle made sense for docks, while the new reasoning is more about safe travel than the physical connection.

 

[Ahriman]

No, I'd say the description needs to clearly as possible describe the game mechanic, not the realism side. So it could say "Provides a trade route connection to other cities with lighthouses"

 

[mystikx21]

So far as I understand the trade systems it has to go to the capital to count. It can go to other cities to get there, but it might not in all cases. 95% of the time.

 

[mystikx21]

Also. I did go and whip up the +10% food skyscraper effect with iron required.

In case it is needed later.

 

[Ahriman]

So far as I understand the trade systems it has to go to the capital to count. It can go to other cities to get there, but it might not in all cases. 95% of the time.

True, but that works for all connections. A road between two cities provides a trade route connection between those cities - but still provides no actual trade bonus unless they are also connected to the capital.

Lighthouses or harbors are similar.

I'm happy for other text if it is clearer, but it is just confusing to start adding in words like
"safely" that have nothing to do with the actual game mechanic.

 

[Stalker0]

I think perhaps the harbor should be even cheaper with this change.

Its primary function is to connect cities on islands and across coastlines....and that doesn't warrant a big cost in my opinion (especially since island cities are absolutely hammer starved).

 

[mystikx21]

Lighthouse (old harbor) was reduced somewhat in cost. It still has a merchant slot to go with the trade route. How much cheaper are we talking?

 

[EmperorFool]

I won't claim to be a historian or seafarer, but it seems to me that the Lighthouse should increase food as it allows local fisherman to remain at sea longer and return safely while the Harbor should provide a trade connection as it allows larger vessels to dock safely and load/unload cargo. I would think cargo ships would plan their trips to arrive in the morning or daytime to make it easier to conduct business.

If these were reversed again, how about moving the Harbor to something like Construction or Engineering? Is there any benefit to spreading the buildings across multiple tech lines? You'd obviously still need Sailing to build a Harbor but not Optics.

 

[Ahriman]

Fishermen typically do not need a lighthouse; they are in smaller boats that have low draft and are much less vulnerable to hidden reefs or rocks, they are local, they know the area. It is typically larger vessels from elsewhere that benefit from a lighthouse as a navigational aide.

Cargo ships arrived whenever they got there; sea travel was notoriously unreliable, and was very much at the mercy of the winds. It was not possible for a ship captain to choose the day he would arrive on, let alone the time of day.

Spreading the buildings across multiple tech lines would unnecessarily weaken the naval techs I think. They're already of little benefit to non-coastal civs.

 

[Calavente]

Fishermen typically do not need a lighthouse; they are in smaller boats that have low draft and are much less vulnerable to hidden reefs or rocks, they are local, they know the area. It is typically larger vessels from elsewhere that benefit from a lighthouse as a navigational aide.

Cargo ships arrived whenever they got there; sea travel was notoriously unreliable, and was very much at the mercy of the winds. It was not possible for a ship captain to choose the day he would arrive on, let alone the time of day.

I disagree.
seeing the entry of the port is useful for fishermen.
and a cargo ship can easily wait just outside of the harbor until conjunction of day and the flow. the only time they don't wait is when pursued OR when a storm arise.
However, without a harbor or some docks, you'll never get any Cargo-ships. only small fishermen doing so low-side commerce with nearby villages as a bonus.

 

[Dunkah]

I think you could look at this either way but traditionally in-game Lighthouse was for food and I think it would be a bit more confusing to change it to trade and Harbor to food.

 

[Ahriman]

I really don't care much either way. Whatever you guys prefer is fine.

 

[Thalassicus]

I feel it's weird to have lots of lighthouses without any harbors for ships to dock at. This is why I like giving the harbor one of the most important bonuses, and placing it early, so we tend to have one in all our coastal cities.