New challenge: earliest possible UHVs

[blizzrd]

It only counts militarily?

Yes. As for other civs' UHV requirements which similarly require you to not lose a city, losing a city means when another unit (AI civ, independent, native or barbarian) walks into (or razes) one of your cities. Losing cities to independence, conferences, spawns, respawns or even liberating your own cities does not cause you to fail the UHV criterion.

I think you'll have to get over this whole "is this a bug" thing though...

 

[Power_of_Beer]

Founded the 15th colony right in 1650, when the open-borders UHV is fulfilled.

Spain didn't found Cadiz which enabled me to sail to Africa and found Casablanca, a nice settler factory with good resources. The whole world (except the Far East of course) was Islam, which was nice for contacts via the Apostolic Palace and good relations for open borders. Teched Compass-Optics and was the first in the New World, made some sweet trades with the Maya (Got Paper, the culture-techs, Philosophy from them), and of course open borders whenever possible...
The rest was just spamming settlers and crashing the economy, I didn't even reach Astronomy because I teched Civil Service which was a mistake. I guess a few turns could have been saved with more aggressive settling.

Worth mentioning: Mali built the Taj Mahal

 

[Zagoroth]

I finished the Mayan UHV game, got the score of Dan Quayle. This is the completed game of the above post for the Mayan VV in 740 C.E. The game was not very hard, if somewhat annoying. My only enemies, after destroying the Aztecs, were the hordes of barbarians and natives coming down on Tuitan, and later Uxmal, one tile south of the middle Great Lake. My stability was constantly fluctuating between unstable and shaky. At one point I even settled Chichin Itza to raise my expansion rating, I then later settled Mayapan, two tiles North and three tiles West of New Orleans. This was merely an attempt to raise my score at the last minute, did not work very well... I met the Europeans with a caravel at around 1540, thus stopping a potential conquerors event and receiving the plague before they meet me. The only bazaar part of the game was when I was the first to circumnavigate the globe... in 1703.

Blizzrd: Sorry, I just do not really know the game mechanics well, so when something I have not seen before happens I think something is wrong.

 

[Power_of_Beer]

I don't know if this counts as a virtual victory - got the techs in turn 81 and, well, no other city was as big as Babylon in turn 84, but I can't "prove" this already in turn 81.

The techpath was: Pottery - Writing - Mysticism - Masonry - Polytheism - Priesthood

I basically used the strategy that was described here in the forums some while ago. Research slider down to 60% from the beginnin to hire a mercenary, built 4 warriors, captured Sush. Babylon then built a worker - Granary - Stonehenge. Sush built 2 warriors, then a worker.
The remaining 2 warriors from the battle of Sush were sent to India. I declared war and fortified the warriors in the forests, to prevent India from improving their land and growing (They can grow to size 7 at turn 84 whichs is kinda hard to beat). They built 8 warriors and 2 mercenaries but never attacked me . I also declared war on China when they sent a scout, maybe that prevented them from growing and rather build military, I dont know.
Switched to Caste System after Stonehenge and hired 2 artists in Sush. The Great Artist was born in turn 80 and popped Monarchy. Babylon then builds library and The Oracle for Code of Laws. With 2 wonders the Culture-UHV was of course also mine.

 

[Power_of_Beer]

I have to admit that 3000BC starts can make things slightly easier for Russia. Flipped 3 additional Horse Archers which were all sent to Greece, who were still alive but had no Feudalism/Engineering and were just about to collapse. Byzantium had The Great Lighthouse (not that great for Russia), but Athens was better: The Great Library, Academy, 3 settled Great Scientists, 1 Great Priest. The Scientists bulbed the way to Liberalism + Printing Press, allowing me to grab Constitution in 1380 or so. Switched to Representation immediately for more beakers, and beelined Electricity for the sweet Research Institutes. Combined with Representation, I was able to get Rocketry pretty early.

Apostolic Palace was Buddhist, built in Athens, so I spread it everywhere for extra hammers. However, I had to adopt Christianity for better relations with Germany and Turkey. Both of them were my best buddies, which is really important for Russia: always be nice and kind to your neighbours and give them anything they want. Supported with the Castle-Quest for +3 relations with everybody, I was even able to open borders with Turkey.

 

[Power_of_Beer]

Last game for today
Optimized the strategy of my last Babylon game: better micromanagement in working the tiles to maximise commerce, yet have a good production. Researched Mysticism first to build Stonehenge earlier and pop that artist 5 turns earlier. Babylon was 2 pop away of every other city in turn 77, so I guess this is a real VV

 

[Zagoroth]

I am sure somebody can do better than this, and I am also going to play again to do better. This is an Incan VV for 1660C.E. I settled Nazca as my capitol. It was annoying settling on the corn, but I wanted my capitol to have access to water for better trade. The screen shots show the rest of my city placement. I researched Sailing, Bronze Working, Monarchy, and then Calendar. One mistake I made was that right after Bronze Working I switched to Slavery, and did another switch right after Monarchy for Hereditary Rule. I should have done both at the same time. I avoided the conquerors event for no good reason, I sent a fishing boat to go the long way around South America to encounter the Europeans but a Roman caravel spotted it on the Western side of South America. I built markets in all of my cities and then put two merchant specialists in each one after markets. Along with that, after Calendar, I stopped researching to maximize my income, which was around 60 gold a turn. I got a Great Merchant and sent him to Tenochitlan for 1100 gold. I reached 3000 gold before settling all of none Portuguese South America, which was frustrating. In fact for the last twelve turns I whipped two settlers out to fill in two coast squares which my other cities could not reach. My city placements was not so good for maximizing space. I chose good cities over more area. Willkapampa should be one more tile South which would encompass the Southern most tip of South America. The French city you can see in the picture is Cayanne and is in the "Brazil" area of South America. I will post the official win when I finish.

Edition: Finished the game with a Dan Quayle again, oh well. Right after reaching 1700, when I need 3000 gold, I went on a massive technology shopping spree. Basically this brought be from the Bronze Age to the Medieval Ages. After that I built enough economic buildings in each city to actually have an impressive tech rate, also the cost of techs decrease if many people have them. At the end I destroyed my economy to get to Astronomy, but could not resist at least reaching the Renaissance. My stability was surprisingly good, it stayed at stable for the majority of the game.

 

[PiMan]

I don't know if this counts as a virtual victory - got the techs in turn 81 and, well, no other city was as big as Babylon in turn 84, but I can't "prove" this already in turn 81.

Do you have an autosave from roughly then? Because you could check in the world builder couldn't you?

 

[BurnEmDown]

Sorry Zagoroth but I just beat your record
3000 gold in 1620, 3000 BC start.
Settled on the stone 2S of starting possition, I think this is the best spot for the capital.
2nd city on the stone also, to the south, otherwise it is a wasted 2H tile.
3rd city is Tucume, captured from natives.
4th is in the northern part of the UHV requirement, also planned on getting a GM there but got one in capital first accidently.
5th city was on Buenos Aires I think, anyway on the southeastern part of south America. I travelled there via galley and...
I got lucky and got the plague from an independent trireme, I know it's kind of cheesy, but I didn't plan on getting it! (getting it meant that I wouldn't get conquistadores from the Europeans, or another plague).
techs where BW->Sailing->Monarchy->Calendar->AH (will be useful when the cows show up).
Build barracks and markets in all cities and when you're done with Calendar put the slider on 10%, you should then be able to build wealth in all cities except for occasional axeman for defense against barbs.
When GM popped sent it to Saint Dominique's which is a french island-city north of the northernmost city, and viola 3000 gold.
Now I just need to defend until 1800 and it's a victory! Will post UHV screen when done.

 

[Zagoroth]

Well, you need to settler South, South America, Ecuador, the gold, and the small island to the east of South, South America. That way you guarantee no Europeans can settler there. The The VV is having everywhere settled and the gold.

 

[Wessel V1]

True, but Spain will only settle these areas when they've settled Buenos Aires, i.e. they will never settle Ecuador when they don't have a city nearby. The problem with this UHV is that there is only one condition that can be proven to be virtual. The others are often a matter of waiting until it triggers, but nothing guarantees that.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Well, it seems both of you are slightly wrong.
Zaragoth, settling everywhere you need still doesn't ensure 100% victory, as an AI could always invade, and Wessel, it seems Spain DOES settle south america even with no Buenos Aires, looks like this'll be a bloody fight to the win (also note to self - always settle UHV needed areas)
Edit: I didn't make it, does reloading count?
Well nvm, I guess this won't count as earliest UHV, but for me it'll count as a won UHV.

 

[Zagoroth]

Well, my point was that it was the most sure fire way to assure yourself victory if the game were to end on the turn you settler everywhere. Also, I would have settled in Ecuador if only just for the gold, but also to prevent a sneaky Spanish settler. I think you need to settle everywhere for the VV criteria... Including the small island east of Argentina. I do not believe reloading is cheating either. Even if it is as if you have future knowledge of what will happen, you are still learning something to perfect the next time you play.

 

[Wessel V1]

Well, it seems both of you are slightly wrong.
Zaragoth, settling everywhere you need still doesn't ensure 100% victory, as an AI could always invade, and Wessel, it seems Spain DOES settle south america even with no Buenos Aires, looks like this'll be a bloody fight to the win (also note to self - always settle UHV needed areas)
Edit: I didn't make it, does reloading count?
Well nvm, I guess this won't count as earliest UHV, but for me it'll count as a won UHV.

See, you've proven that it hasn't been a virtual UHV since you weren't sure that you could claim victory. Which is why I believe that there are some civs that shouldn't be on the list, neither for earliest victory nor earliest virtual victory. The OP has his right to judge here.

It seems that Spain colonizes more than it used to. I still have the AI of 1.181 in my mind in these cases, I haven't done so many late games in 1.184/5.

 

[Zagoroth]

I think it is perfectly acceptable to put Inca on the VV. The only way to guarantee that there is no colonies at all times, is to either settler everywhere or have no fog of war on the entire continent. Once you settler everywhere you have done everything you can do to prevent settlement, and since the Europeans always settler South America, you would always have had to settle everywhere. Therefor you have completed what you would have had to do by the UHV dates as early as possible, thus the VV. I guess it could be argued though that we need to post a save to confirm the Europeans never conquered one of our cities and that we needed to reconquer, thus nullifying the previous VV, but if we still win the UHV I think the earliest date the "requirements" are completed should still be valid.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Let's imagine a scenario: All European civs are wiped out, and there's no cities in Europe either, or better yet, no cities in the entire old world, none.
Now in this case all one has to do to get a VV is gain 3000 gold by 1700, no? So the VV could be won without settling all of the required area.
But what if that's not the case? What if, say, the Norse still hold 1 tiny city? Surely they won't settle anywhere near the required area, is it a requirement for the VV to settle everywhere then, I'm sure not.
Another scenario: the Inca settled just like I did, but unlike myself the player made 200000 gold and has 30 Infantries in each city and also some scattered around SA (unrealistic I know).
Surely he won't have a problem defending SA even without settling?
So VV's are pretty hard to define whem they are achieved and when they are not.
One could say that if he has 2700 gold in 1650 and running 200gpt in 100% research, that's also a VV for the gold requirement no?
So I say draw the line here: When a player has accumulated 3000 gold AND there's no European colony in the required zone, that's a VV. If a player chose not to settle some of the required zone, that's a risk he's willing to take (much like I did). And he possibly did this in order to get 3000 gold sooner. So if a player chose to get 3000 gold sooner, he knew the risks he was taking, and as long as he can get a screenshot of a true UHV of all 3 criteras, that's fine, isn't it?
Gee that was long X_X.

 

[Zagoroth]

The point is settling everywhere gives you the most control and stops any European civilization from settling themselves, they would have to conquer. This is the closest way to assure the Europeans have the hardest time settling.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Well yes, trust me I've learned my lesson .

 

[Wessel V1]

BurnEmDown, you exactly hit the point. The Inca UHV, like the Mayan and the Ethiopian UHV, require to prevent your opponents from achieving something. Although I think Zagoroth makes a valid point that the current AI isn't capable of stopping him when he has settled SA, the goal is still to prevent something, and you cannot say that you've stopped something until the time runs out. In contrary, Egypt's UHVs require to achieve something yourself. So, when you've done that, you've clearly won the UHV. The same thing applies for Persia (the shrines), China (the units), and others. I won't argue that all of the above "preventing" UHVs should be chopped of the list; it would be disappointing if the Dutch (for example) UHVs before 1500 are removed. A clear schedule of requirements to declare VV would be useful though.

By the way, I'm thinking of another challenge. The highest winning UHV-score, would that be challenging? Maybe we could even set a rule for highest score for virtual victories, since time is also an important issue for high scores. Complicated, but fun I guess.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Nobody will ever build on the Falklands or the Galapagos, because it's not in any of the AI's settler maps.
However, Spain will build anywhere in SA in their settler map, including Quito and Ushuaia. So will Netherlands and France near Guyana. So the only standardized way is to settle all these and get your gold.

The highest score is meaningless, since it'll either be Persia or Greece or Rome. (And god knows how many people use World Builder...)