New challenge: earliest possible UHVs

[AnotherPacifist]

Sorry blizzrd, I didn't mean to get your record. I just wanted to show that gifting warriors (and an archer, in case the UP didn't work correctly) to the English and then demolishing them worked really well. This was an interesting start since Tikal and Chichen Itza were both alive and well, and defended by 2 triply promoted archer! I got 3 barb jaguars which flipped, and I lost all of my jaguars except for 2 in capturing it. I think it was worth it since I didn't have to build another settler in the south.

Actually could have won a turn earlier if not for my stupid mistake of converting to Christianity (got to me quite late). I was 1 turn to Physics when I got a GS from Chichen Itza, and bulbed him for like 30 beakers. Got him right back since I was first to Physics! (SC netted me no less than 6 techs from other civs)

One particular point is that the island cities are not destined to build markets and such, and the farthest one near South America I just gave to Inca because nobody will ever attack it from sea, and in this patch Nationalism is researched really late, so the chances of it changing hands was minimal. The other two cities I used basically for scientist generating (only got 1 from Havana) after whipping a library and sacrificial altar. Chichen Itza is kinda annoying since you inevitably get a Great Prophet no matter what you do (I tried a spy) unless you overwhelm it with other specialists.

Also, serfdom was quite important in the 1600's in whipping the whole North America territory in shape.

Spoiler :

 

[TDK]

I don't consider that the strategy of giving ships to an AI civ so that you can then sink them is an unfair exploit, perhaps something which some think shouldn't be allowed.

It is allowable under this patch, as is the strategy of using a string of caravels to transport Buddhist missionaries from Khmer homelands to Europe every turn. Each similarly pushes the boundaries, but I don't have a problem with either of these strategies.

Squatting used to be allowable also, and while it was allowed, for the same reason I didn't have a problem with this strategy either (although Rhye obviously did with the recent changes that he implemented).

I'm not talking about that exploit!
I'm talking about the exploit where you can kill a spawning civ and all their arms with a single unit or two.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The most amazing thing in this game was not that Netherlands had most of Rome's land, got 2/3 UHV and founded a city on the West Coast BEFORE New York, but that Maya had 2/3 UHV done by the time I spawn, knowing almost everything except Feudalism and Currency. Of course I had to capture everything (luckily I had a band of jaguars and dog soldiers that flipped) because if I don't, I might meet some of these infamous Independent conquerors if they lose a city after 1300. (I was tempted to just spawn a great spy and steal everything from them) They ended up giving me techs, and after we made peace (him with 1 city left and I bet that they were going collapse and be indy, so that I meet them before 1300), I bought monarchy for 330 g (a steep price but it allowed me to expand northwards quicker). Then it was the usual thing up North America, peace treaty with natives in 1650 or so, gift warriors to Netherlands and capture Seattle.

The strategy for Aztecs is very interesting in that you're aiming to skyrocket right after 1700. I saved 2 great scientists (who kept on trying to bulb useless things like Education and Philosophy) until I had Astronomy, then learned SC in 2 moves and Physics in 4. Spawned a great engineer by mistake so actually used up a great scientist with him for another 8 moves of GA (wasted totally). I succeeded in preventing the great priest from Temple of Kukulkan from spawning, basically by assigning scientists elsewhere to do the job.

If somebody wants to try the Great Spy-Maya thing, here's the autoplay ending just before you spawn.

Spoiler :

 

[blizzrd]

I'm talking about the exploit where you can kill a spawning civ and all their arms with a single unit or two.

That's just due to ******** AI behaviour. I don't think there is much that Rhye or anyone else can do about it, sadly.

 

[Tigranes]

I succeeded in preventing the great priest from Temple of Kukulkan from spawning, basically by assigning scientists elsewhere to do the job.

Waw, first time I see AI Maya get their Temple Kukulkan UHV.

 

[blizzrd]

Spoiler :

This time I went more aggressively for American lands, founding Washington and New York. Didn't worry so much about defending Central America and gave away an island city to the Inca. Although Inca collapsed and there was a tile in Central America without my culture over it, neither of these locations was targeted by any of the Euro civs.

Used mostly GS along the way, but got a GE as my 2nd great person and used him for Machinery (all but 1 turn thereof).

Gifted away my squad of 10 useless units to France shortly before DOWing France and enslaving them (credits to AP for this idea).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

OK Blizzrd, I'm challenging you to overturn my (not so stellar) 3000 BC Dutch VV. (I didn't really think much this time, just expanded willy-nilly. Even forgot that it was to be 7, not 5 spices). As soon as you set me a date to beat I'll play this saved game again.

This should be even easier than the 600 AD because you can almost certainly get a spice from India, and 2 sets of conquerors. Plus Roman culture will allow you to build a close-by city for quicker compass.

Spoiler :

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The German and Russian AIs need to be tweaked to found cities a little farther from their capitals. I was able to build around Germany (Frankfurt was razed by barbs and eventually Kiel flipped) and deprive them of their iron. Miscalculated a little bit since I had built a fort next to the stone of Mexico City, but since I had captured it, it was no longer their capital and they couldn't get enough culture to enclose the fort. So my ship had to go all the way around South America to get across. (I guess I could have founded Oaxaca instead myself).

Also very unfortunate that Khmer had collapsed, which made me win later by no less than 4 turns (since I was expecting a spice from them, so I had to found Merauke myself).

And no, I haven't sold my map yet, and Spain is the only other civ even close to Astronomy (because they demanded guilds from me). So this should count as a VV.

(is it 1500 AD since the spices were obtained the turn before and then the GA strikes next turn?)

Spoiler :

 

[Walliard]

If I understand what you're saying, you can't use another civ's forts as canals anyway.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I thought having them as your vassal will allow you to use them as canals?

 

[blizzrd]

Spoiler :

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Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Here's your new challenge target AP.

Spices were 1x Mexico, 2x Caribbean islands, 2x Dutch Guiana, 1x Java and one traded from Khmer.

Built Luxemburg straight up with the 2nd settler then flipped Kiel from Germany after about 10 turns. Got 3x conquerors, finished holy mountain quest (east coast of Australia) and had 3 Golden Ages before 1600AD. Had France, Mali and Inca as vassals in 1600AD.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

So flipping Kiel seems to be very good for more science early on. If Rome and Greece didn't have so much culture it might even be possible to build more cities in Poland and Kiev, because the AI tends to avoid building cities with other civs' cities around, so in 3000 BC they're are by default forced towards the Russians.

Unfortunately I updated my BTS so I can't do any more of your challenge.

 

[dragodon64]

Well, you got 19 records up there! Thats pretty amazing, especially since 2nd place is 3 records (tied between blizzrd and virdrago). Let me add, I tried a couple of these knowing I wouldn't come close to you guys; I was right.

 

[ambassoon]

Fantastic Netherlands game, blizzrd! Inspired use of Luxemburg for a bit more room in Europe

 

[AnotherPacifist]

It's interesting that just a little religion early on will allow your Luxembourg to get the pig and some other tiles...my 3000BC Dutch game was so unlucky that I had no (none!) religion even though I had open borders with everybody, except Rome. Also helps that Berlin in your game had no religion.

 

[blizzrd]

Actually I lost the tiles around the Pig to Germany after a while to Berlin's culture. And this was despite building the Hagia Sofia and later the Taj Mahal in Luxemburg.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Germany 3000 BC VV in 1820.
I started conquering right away, got Italy and Greece from the barbarians pretty Easily, then razed Amsterdam to make room for Hannover. Teched a bit while keeping no more than 9 cities until I was at a clear tech advantage, when all of a sudden Isabella asked me to attack the French. I accept and take Paris, razing all the other cities. I don't remember why but at around 1600 I had to declare war on Russia, even tho I wanted to wait out at least another century before declaring, I think it was a defensive pact. Anyway took Moskva and they collapsed. I had a large army so I used it to take out the Vikings too. The British were more of a problem but they fell by the 1800's.
Now I'm at a clear tech advantage, the only dangers of respawns are Italy, Greece, and Russia.
Persia got 2 cities in Russia but I think it doesn't count against my UHV, and even if it does I can take them in 1-2 turns If I wish so thanks to my Panzers against their Riflemen.
Below are screens of Europe and the tech positions.
UHV screen will come as soon as I finish the game.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Um, I thought the VV for the Germans is when you finish researching the tech tree...

 

[blizzrd]

A German virtual UHV requires both occupation of the required territories and completion of the tech tree.

 

[Power_of_Beer]

... and keeping your empire until 1940?