New Civilizations

John HSOG said:
The Confederate States of America?!!!

They are of the American civilization, no one can argue differently. Their existence was that of less than five years, hardly enough time to develop a different civilization.

Indeed.

It seems many posters are unsure as to what constitutes a civilisation.

A political entity is not a culture/nation...

I suggest people read up before making statements in error!

:)
 
I'd like to see the Kingdom of Manchuria in a civ game. They played a vital role in Chinese history. They are sort of like Tibet in a way.
 
Wow, I guess a lot more people are dumber than I thought. Civil war is due to a clash in Civilian Identity.

Having the Yankees and the Confederates is in the same context of having Rome and the Byzantines. USA and CSA fought the largest war ever fought in the worlds history. There are distinct identies of Civilizations split between the Yankees and the Confederates.

Here are other Civs that share this distinction:
Austria and Hungry
England, Wales and Scots
Egypt and Nubia
Israel and Judea
Turkey and Mongolia
Pakistan and India
Ethiopia, Eritrea, Djibouti, Somaliland and Somalia
Congo and Congo
China and Taiwan
Czech and Slovakia
Rome and Etruria

If you were unaware that the South and New England were so disparately different, then you must hit your history books again.
 
If the USA/CSA civil war was "the largest war ever fought in the worlds history", what was WW2? A playground fight? get a sense of scale man.

And it is nothing like Romans and Byzantines. Each of those existed as separate entities for hundreds of years - either of those lasted more than twice the USA. You can't compare a five year civilization with a 500 year one - it's a completely different league.


One thing I think should be posible is that we should have a number of sets of civs and their associated map (map being optional). So you could choose the default world set, and the game let's you choose from the 32 or so 'world' civs. Or you could choose to play the 'ancient Med' set, and it gives you a different set of 32 civs, all from the ancient mediterranean. Likewise a North America set could give you 32 North American civs to choose from.
 
Uh, i don't think Firaxis are going to ADD any more, i mean some of these suggestions are a little crazy.

Europes pretty well covered, any more would be getting a little silly, before you know it people will want Basque, Cornish and Manx. The whole Eng/Sco/Wal things is covered in Celt and *would be* if Eng was changed to Britian too to represent all three nations. Nation states are effectively invented and very few have been around longer than 300 odd years but ethnicity even more so.

No offense intended to Moari and Aboriginie peoples but they never really got off the ground in terms of tech did they? To be fair i'm a bit of a purest in that America proberbly should'nt be their anyway, although would be commercial suicide.
 
You just proved my point. If you did not know the American Civil War was larger than World War Two then you need to do your research.

You all keep using years for the scale and influence of Civilizations. I wish I could have brought you all to an International body after the Greek-Turkish War. 500 years compared to 3,000. We'd have Thrace and Western Anatolia today if your facts were evident.
 
Look, the number of people who died in WW2 was larger than the number of people, military and civilians together, who were in the theatre of war for the US civil war. Given that simple fact, I don't see how you can be serious.

http://www.civil-war.net/census.asp?census=Total
31 million living people in North America in 1860

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm
55 million people died in WW2

Frankly, your claim that the US civil war was bigger than WW2 is stupid and insulting.

Edited to add: Another page on the civil war site notes that about 360,000 soldiers died in the US civil war (no civilian casualty figures given). Which makes the difference even starker.
 
World War 2 wasn't the biggest war in history.... It only went on for 6 years. You could argue that it was infact a minor war... If you put it into contrast with the old wars that happened before the 1900s.
 
WWII certainly was not the LONGEST war, but it was the biggest. Biggest would be calculated by the areas of the world affected, number involved, killed, etc, and impact on the world. WWII change the world!
 
WWII was bigger than the US Civil War.
Beside which, if "biggest" is by length, what about the hundred year's war between England and France in the middle ages, which lasted 116(ish) years?

Having said that, the CSA does have a semi- legit claim to civdom, but no way would I include it.

On topic:
- Isreal
- Ethiopia/ Abbysinia
- Change 'England' to 'Britain' or add Scottish/ Picts civ.
- Austria

I generally disagree with searcheagle's comments, but see no reason why the US should not be a civ. Change their name to the US, though, as "America" is the continent, not the country.
 
some very good suggestions here.

- a "fun" civ i.e. Polynesia
- additional SE Asia civs (Thailand/Siam seems to have been left out for quite some time)
- additional African Civs

Even adding a total of 3 of these would greatly enhance gameplay.
 
OK guys, this back and forth arguing-not to mention flaming-is really getting us NOWHERE. A really easy solution to our problems, IMHO, is to do the following:

1) As in Civ3, break the entire worlds civilizations-past and present-into accepted 'Culture Groups'. Possible Culture groups could be: North American, South American, North-Western Europe, North-Eastern Europe, Mediterranean, West Africa, East Africa, South Africa, Middle East, Central Asia, South-East Asia, Pacific.

2) For each culture group have a list of around 20-30 nations, from various points in history, that have ever existed.

3) When you start the game, you will be shown a screen with a list of each of the culture groups. When you click on the name of each group, you will be shown every available nation from that group. You then select which nation you wish to play OR you can click random (either random FROM a culture group, or completely random!)

4) You can use the very same process to determine what other major powers you play against.

5) Once step 3 and 4 are taken, then ALL remaining civs in the lists will be randomly selected to form a new 'game list', which will provide the basis for the names of both Minor Civs, and any new civilizations which form as a result of the break-up of existing nations.

This would allow almost every concievable nation on Earth to be potentially in the game, but with the actual nations you DO encounter in a game being dependant on both player choice, and the actions taken within the game!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
Aussie Lurker, Firaxis aren't going to make potentially 300 civs! They have better things to do. I think even 5 is almost on the excessive side per culture, let alone 20 - 30!
 
teccuk said:
Uh, i don't think Firaxis are going to ADD any more, i mean some of these suggestions are a little crazy.

Europes pretty well covered, any more would be getting a little silly, before you know it people will want Basque, Cornish and Manx. The whole Eng/Sco/Wal things is covered in Celt and *would be* if Eng was changed to Britian too to represent all three nations. Nation states are effectively invented and very few have been around longer than 300 odd years but ethnicity even more so.

No offense intended to Moari and Aboriginie peoples but they never really got off the ground in terms of tech did they? To be fair i'm a bit of a purest in that America proberbly should'nt be their anyway, although would be commercial suicide.
There is a lot of Europes' nations still left out. Albania, Serbia,Lithunia,estonia,Luxemborg,Slovenia, Hungary, and so many others that i cant think of right now.
 
Mongoloid Cow said:
Aussie Lurker, Firaxis aren't going to make potentially 300 civs! They have better things to do. I think even 5 is almost on the excessive side per culture, let alone 20 - 30!
I enjoy playing against more nations, it seems more real then playing against 5! Firaxis should have 30 nations to choice from.
 
To be fair though, Mongoloid_Cow, between all of the modders around I reckon that there are already close to 300 civs already created. It really is just a case of adapting them to the civ4 format. Even if this is not done, I would be happy if civ4 came out with just a few civs per culture group, then left the door open for modders to add more. Its more the MANNER in which I would like to see it work that I am putting forward.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
Aussie_Lurker said:
To be fair though, Mongoloid_Cow, between all of the modders around I reckon that there are already close to 300 civs already created. It really is just a case of adapting them to the civ4 format. Even if this is not done, I would be happy if civ4 came out with just a few civs per culture group, then left the door open for modders to add more. Its more the MANNER in which I would like to see it work that I am putting forward.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Leave the door open for more; I have no objections to that. But making 300 or so civs to start with, I'd prefer them to do other things instead.
 
Perhaps if there were flags instead of figure heads, there could be a few more civs.

New Civs, IMO:

Hebrews
Mali/Songhai
Nubians, perhaps.
Sioux

How can we have a Polynesian civ? What would be the UU? Does anyone have a city list? Traits? COme on, I'm all for including every corner of the globe, but this is ridiculous.
 
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