New DLC at August: Korea ()

[ShahJahanII]

1 screenshot will reveal everything about the color...
A more important question,
what will be the scenario released with it?

 

[Lose]

1 screenshot will reveal everything about the color...
A more important question,
what will be the scenario released with it?

maybe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasions_of_Korea_(1592–1598)

play as korea and defend from japanese invasions while allying china. it might work cause it was when the turtle ship was used and hwacha.

 

[Scaramanga]

Agree Hwacha should replace Cannon.

The best candidate for Kobukson replacement is the Ironclad.

For:
1. There weren't a whole lot of them
2. They may have been iron-plated too
3. They were used to defend their own territory and coastal waters
4. Kobuksons were in service until the 19th century: the period of Western ironclads

Against:
1. Steam Power is inappropriate for turtle technology
2. Kobuksons probably weren't ironclad
3. Their firepower wasn't comparable to a Western ironclad

Caravels are for exploration and Frigates tend towards offensive action and troop escort. Triremes and ironclads conform more to Turtleship tactics so if you made the Kobukson an Ironclad replacement available in the Renaissance Era with lower stats and no resource requirements I think it could work.

 

[Runens]

Hey guys

why so serious?

Let's expect 12th August (in Korea time )

 

[Pouakai]

Agree Hwacha should replace Cannon.

The best candidate for Kobukson replacement is the Ironclad.

For:
1. There weren't a whole lot of them
2. They may have been iron-plated too
3. They were used to defend their own territory and coastal waters
4. Kobuksons were in service until the 19th century: the period of Western ironclads

Against:
1. Steam Power is inappropriate for turtle technology
2. Kobuksons probably weren't ironclad
3. Their firepower wasn't comparable to a Western ironclad

Caravels are for exploration and Frigates tend towards offensive action and troop escort. Triremes and ironclads conform more to Turtleship tactics so if you made the Kobukson an Ironclad replacement available in the Renaissance Era with lower stats and no resource requirements I think it could work.

So, an Ironclad replacement that is available earlier (Chemistry?), slightly weaker and cheaper?

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

Agree Hwacha should replace Cannon.

The best candidate for Kobukson replacement is the Ironclad.

For:
1. There weren't a whole lot of them
2. They may have been iron-plated too
3. They were used to defend their own territory and coastal waters
4. Kobuksons were in service until the 19th century: the period of Western ironclads

Against:
1. Steam Power is inappropriate for turtle technology
2. Kobuksons probably weren't ironclad
3. Their firepower wasn't comparable to a Western ironclad

Caravels are for exploration and Frigates tend towards offensive action and troop escort. Triremes and ironclads conform more to Turtleship tactics so if you made the Kobukson an Ironclad replacement available in the Renaissance Era with lower stats and no resource requirements I think it could work.

It should replace the Trebuchet. With one (or 2?) hit point more and an added extra attack.

 

[TopGearFanatic]

It should replace the Trebuchet. With one (or 2?) hit point more and an added extra attack.

Added damage and an extra attack would be too much. Look at the Chu-Ko-Nu.

 

[Revoran]

Added damage and an extra attack would be too much. Look at the Chu-Ko-Nu.

You're right - however it might be balanced if you made it have a large penalty vs cities (because in real life Hwachas were terrible against cities but good against troops). I dunno if it should have extra damage though - that seems unrealistic.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I expect Korea to be science-oriented civ. So to complement this (and reality) I expect Hwacha to have huge bonus against units, probably even at the cost of decreasing city attack. This way it will be awesome if used defensively. It could replace either Trebuchet or Cannon, but Cannons are more likely.

I also don't expect Turtle ship, since there are too many sea-related civs already and this wouldn't work well with science civ concept, so most likely second one will be a building.

 

[Pouakai]

Any news from this supposed event in Korea?

 

[TW_Honorius]

I expect Korea to be science-oriented civ. So to complement this (and reality) I expect Hwacha to have huge bonus against units, probably even at the cost of decreasing city attack. This way it will be awesome if used defensively. It could replace either Trebuchet or Cannon, but Cannons are more likely.

I also don't expect Turtle ship, since there are too many sea-related civs already and this wouldn't work well with science civ concept, so most likely second one will be a building.

Turtle ship, remember the days of Age of Empires

 

[fat_tonle]

Turtle ships were OP as hell in Age of Kings, or whatever the expansion was called. I remember those things two shotting galleons, cannon ships, and the works. But I still think they deserve to be in the game. Not sure what the UB would be anyhow. Then again, two unique units pretty much means it has to be a military civ, and that really doesn't exemplify the Korean civilization. Unless they get some science bonus for controlling trade routes and such. Or money bonuses. That way military units can at least assist in the economic or science game. The UA has to have synergy with military units.

 

[crossmr]

I really don't know where this science obsession comes from with Korea, but building/doing things quickly is a huge part of Korean culture. Now the science bonus could be seen as researching things faster, but it doesn't really address producing things faster. They really need some kind of bonus to production or something along those lines (perhaps as long as a worker is on the same tile/in a tile next to a city, the city gets a production bonus that turn, stacking per unit, perhaps 2% each unit or something along those lines).

 

[Morningcalm]

Two military UU might seem to indicate a military civ, but let's face it: Korea was military, and *had* to be for its own survival. With China on its borders and Japan invading by land, you have two huge nations that might squash you if you don't adapt, defend and overcome. And that's just what Koreans did (in addition to conquering large swathes of Manchuria during its Goguryeo days).

I personally wouldn't worry too much. Two UU and a scientific/cultural/defensive UA would work just fine. Oh yes, and an AI that isn't as trigger happy as the other AI? Or is that too much to ask?

crossmr, the science thing comes from Korea's dedication to literacy, and its fast internet speed, as well as its innovative military (Turtle Ship, Hwacha, Shinkichon, Panokson, etc etc). Furthermore, it's consistently rated as one of the scientific powers in the world. Certainly in the modern age, Korea performs well consistently on math and science related subjects in international tests, and the education focus here is ferocious as in few other countries. (Everyone who's been here knows about the infamous hakwon "cram schools" that may or may not be of great quality, but nonetheless cram tons of info into their students--I should know, as I've personally attended many).

 

[crossmr]

Furthermore, it's consistently rated as one of the scientific powers in the world.

It's really not though, it's middle of the pack, at best.
http://royalsociety.org/knowledge-networks-nations-graph/

and I'll be honest with you, the internet is a dog's breakfast these days in Korea. They've completely outpaced their ability to provide.

 

[Morningcalm]

Hardly middle of the pack. Consider Wikipedia's (take it with a grain of salt, but the sourced they reference are *mostly* worthy):

"Scientific and technological development in the South Korea at first did not occur largely because of more pressing matters such as the division of Korea and the Korean War that occurred right after its independence. It wasn't until the 1960s under the dictatorship of Park Chung-hee where South Korea's economy rapidly grew from industrialisation and the Chaebol corporations such as Samsung and LG.

As of 2008 South Korea ranked 5th highest in terms of R&D.[25] Park Kye-jung, CEO of Ace Electronics, won the Gold and Silver prizes for his invention of motor and motor-equipped gear at the 23rd Invention and New Product Exposition, he took the gold medal with his invention of a special device that converts vibrations from a running car into electric power.[26] During the INPEX held in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania sixteen Korean inventions received awards, including four gold prizes, three silvers, three bronzes and six special prizes. The Pittsburgh INPEX had inventors from 20 countries, contenders from Australia, Germany, the United States and 11 other countries submitted 160 items.[26]

Seoul is ranked as the world's "leading digital city" and a "tech capital of the world"[27][28] South Korea is also among the world's most technologically advanced and digitally-connected countries; it has the third most broadband Internet users among the OECD countries[29] and is a global leader in electronics, digital displays, semiconductor devices, and mobile phones.

Formally disgraced scientist, Hwang Woo-suk led a bio-engineering team that created three living clones of a dog that died in 2002.[30]

Korea also exports radioactive isotope production equipment for medical and industrial use to countries such as Russia, Japan, Turkey and others.[31]

Korea has a full-fledged space partnership with Russia[32] and has launched the Arirang-1 and Arirang-2 which both have surveillance cameras equipped.

In robotics, the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) competes with the Japanese company Honda with its humanoid robot HUBO. Honda's ASIMO and KAIST's HUBO lines are the two of very few humanoid robots that can walk.[33] The first HUBO was developed within a span of 3 years and cost 1 million USD.[34]

In renewable energy, South Korean scientists at the Gwangju Institute of Science and Technology in cooperation with the University of California, Santa Barbara successfully developed an organic photovoltaic power cell with energy efficiency of 6.5 percent. [35]"

So basically, component-wise, they are very active and capable scientists, and very well resourced. The fervor for education isn't mentioned here either, but we all know that in Civ universities add a research bonus.

Concerning your final comment: Personally I enjoy great internet service here in Seoul, even during lightning storms and heavy rain. If that's not the case for you, I sympathize.

 

[ShahJahanII]

It's really not though, it's middle of the pack, at best.
http://royalsociety.org/knowledge-networks-nations-graph/

and I'll be honest with you, the internet is a dog's breakfast these days in Korea. They've completely outpaced their ability to provide.

Hardly middle of the pack. Consider Wikipedia's (take it with a grain of salt, but the sourced they reference are *mostly* worthy):

So basically, component-wise, they are very active and capable scientists, and very well resourced. The fervor for education isn't mentioned here either, but we all know that in Civ universities add a research bonus.

Concerning your final comment: Personally I enjoy great internet service here in Seoul, even during lightning storms and heavy rain. If that's not the case for you, I sympathize.

Lets get back to the topic before we get moderated.
The game really has only 1 science civ, Babylon.
If you loosen the description a bit, you could count China as well because the paper maker encourages library production.
I think Korea should be science based to provide some competition there.
But not so good at research that Babylon becomes obsolete, maybe a little research and military, as opposed to a pure science base like Babylon.

 

[crossmr]

So basically, component-wise, they are very active and capable scientists, and very well resourced. The fervor for education isn't mentioned here either, but we all know that in Civ universities add a research bonus.

So are many countries, the only country ranking I see has them listed 5th, hardly worth making them the most scientific civ in the game, especially since countries which rank above them are already in the game.

The internet in Seoul has consistently tanked since the smart phone explosion last fall, when the iphone4 came out. Prior to that I Regularly enjoyed my 100Mbps connection at nearly full speed, but since that I rarely break 40, and the company tech has been out and there isn't much they can do to fix it. The internet is even more unusable during peak hours, and the Japanese disaster hasn't done much for overseas access. Not really much Korea can do about that, but it does contribute to the quality of usage here.
Skype video calls are mostly slide shows these days, and even simple voice calls will have intermittent issues (especially if used during the evening Korea time).

3G is way oversold, and completely unusable in areas. The corridor from Konkuk to Guui to Ganbyeon has a failure rate around 95%+, and you can see it for all passengers on subway (above ground section) as suddenly everyone is sitting there staring at their kakaotalk or other program which has suddenly become useless and cannot send messages.

This kind of service failure happens in many places around seoul with 3G suddenly providing next to no speed in areas with full bars.

There are many great technological things here, but the perception that Korea is some kind of internet king mainly comes from a report a few years ago and isn't really based on the realities of today. They stagnated and didn't keep up with growth.

You might be enjoying a fast connection now, which is probably faster than most of what you can get back home, but you probably also would have enjoyed it much more 2-3 years ago.

23/04/2011 0:10	JST	9.48	3.37	48	Seoul
23/04/2011 21:28	JST	20.86	5.27	19	Seoul
23/04/2011 22:51	JST	19.8	3.22	30	Seoul
24/04/2011 0:51	JST	28.46	10.96	17	Seoul
24/04/2011 8:42	JST	37.61	9.82	14	Seoul
24/04/2011 23:22	JST	9.97	3.57	37	Seoul
24/04/2011 23:23	JST	9.86	3.48	25	Seoul
25/04/2011 8:46	JST	62.5	11.5	11	Seoul
25/04/2011 17:01	JST	28.81	2.89	14	Seoul
25/04/2011 19:06	JST	39.87	10.46	12	Seoul
25/04/2011 19:08	JST	39.63	6.94	20	Seoul
25/04/2011 22:39	JST	34.02	10.95	17	Seoul
26/04/2011 7:43	JST	33.87	10.07	10	Seoul
26/04/2011 23:44	JST	22.83	5.94	21	Seoul
27/04/2011 8:04	JST	61.37	11.57	11	Seoul
27/04/2011 18:00	JST	22.95	11.22	13	Seoul
28/04/2011 8:50	JST	57.42	10.84	12	Seoul
29/04/2011 17:14	JST	41	11.41	13	Seoul
29/04/2011 19:50	JST	52.46	11.25	13	Seoul
29/04/2011 23:26	JST	30.34	7.37	29	Seoul
30/04/2011 14:39	JST	29.36	9.05	13	Seoul
30/04/2011 20:27	JST	24.72	7.11	16	Seoul
01/05/2011 21:32	JST	11.23	3.54	18	Seoul
02/05/2011 8:22	JST	62.24	11.61	12	Seoul
02/05/2011 23:04	JST	27.15	5.06	24	Seoul
07/05/2011 23:55	JST	29.09	7.38	15	Seoul
08/05/2011 22:55	JST	14.3	3.32	22	Seoul
10/05/2011 20:56	JST	9.9	3.25	38	Seoul
10/05/2011 23:07	JST	23.82	2.99	18	Seoul
11/05/2011 17:27	JST	19.21	6.85	14	Seoul
15/05/2011 20:10	JST	12.97	3.36	35	Seoul
20/05/2011 7:49	JST	39.6	8.89	15	Seoul
21/05/2011 20:49	JST	39.47	4.59	21	Seoul
25/05/2011 8:00	JST	49.82	10.41	14	Seoul
03/06/2011 17:29	JST	22.38	7.99	15	Seoul
04/06/2011 23:52	JST	43.02	7.99	21	Seoul
10/06/2011 22:59	JST	12.91	5.37	34	Seoul
26/06/2011 23:44	JST	8.27	4.99	35	Seoul
29/07/2011 8:15	JST	28.36	5.3	11	Seoul
30/07/2011 8:42	JST	56.66	4.31	10	Seoul
30/07/2011 8:50	JST	1.14	1.68	163	San Francisco, CA
07/08/2011 0:09	JST	55.12	5.24	14	Seoul

These are mostly from earlier this year, I'd run it quite a bit after the tech came out, because I wanted a consistent history to show him that it was crap. I'd called him out because one weekend it just stopped working. I couldn't even get to Korean websites for about a day, but of course when the technician came out monday, it was working fine.

While there are a few bright spots for speed, the speed is nowhere near the consistent 80-90Mbps I was getting prior to last fall.

the 3G is also not consistent. Last fall it was okay for a month or two, but then it also tanked as more and more people signed up and they tried to maintain it with the same amount of people and trying to get people to jump on Wifi as often as much.

Lets get back to the topic before we get moderated.
The game really has only 1 science civ, Babylon.
If you loosen the description a bit, you could count China as well because the paper maker encourages library production.
I think Korea should be science based to provide some competition there.
But not so good at research that Babylon becomes obsolete, maybe a little research and military, as opposed to a pure science base like Babylon.

Moderated for what? Giving evidence to support our opinions?
It would make more sense, as I said, to have Korean gain some kind of bonus from workers. Instead of a straight production bonus.. we might look at a combined science/production bonus on the cities from workers stationed around the city (the idea being they're contributing to things going on in the city)

 

[Louis XXIV]

Two military UU might seem to indicate a military civ, but let's face it: Korea was military, and *had* to be for its own survival. With China on its borders and Japan invading by land, you have two huge nations that might squash you if you don't adapt, defend and overcome. And that's just what Koreans did (in addition to conquering large swathes of Manchuria during its Goguryeo days).

What I was thinking was this:

Make the Hwach'a good against units and the Turtle have good survivability (both of which are accurate). However, that won't make Korea good against cities. This will give them two UUs that are superb defensively. It'll be accurate for Korea and it won't make them conquest oriented, in spite of two UUs.

I personally wouldn't worry too much. Two UU and a scientific/cultural/defensive UA would work just fine. Oh yes, and an AI that isn't as trigger happy as the other AI? Or is that too much to ask?

That's my thought. Balance the two UUs with a solid peaceful UA. As far as trigger-happy, I'd suggest slightly more aggressive than Gandhi. I realize that doesn't say much, but he does tend to be on the more peaceful side of leaders.

As for what UA. I still lean towards a scientific UA. People can debate this as much as they want. Aside from a possible Sumeria, they are the best candidates of any realistic Civ to add for science. It's needed to balance Babylon (a scientific Sumeria would just seem duplicative of Babylon anyway). And it fits decently well, even if just by reputation not practice. That's my argument anyway. I've been right on some in the past (Inca, Polynesia, Danes) and wrong in the past (wasn't close with Spain, Mongolia, or Babylon). I'm still holding out the belief that Firaxis is stealing from me, so I can put this in the right column

 

[Roxlimn]

For Hwacha, I'd say replace Cannon. Remove the limitation of having to set up the unit for ranged attack (like Rocket Artillery!) but remove the native bonus against Cities, require a resource (Iron?). This makes the unit actually useful for ranged combat in the field, in the manner of Crossbowmen, but less powerful in taking cities without making it downright impossible for an offensively minded Korean to invade.