New DLC: Polynesia

[snarzberry]

Aw, I like the Maoris. Two theories - one, a warrior. No idea specifically in what way. The other theory would be a Swordsman - perhaps a resourceless swordsman (or would this be too powerful?).

Well they didn't use iron working, the weapons they used were made of wood and jade (greenstone I remember it being called, is it the same thing?) mostly if memory serves me correctly. I think the Maori warrior will be a replacement for warrior or spearmen.

The taiaha is the most famous weapon they used, it's pretty cool, kind of like a thick bow staff with a flat section at the end to parry and attack with.

 

[awesome]

Well we cannot claim that Abraham refers to a real historic figure with any certainty. When you look at a lot of claims that the religious books of the Hebrews make about their ancestry a lot of them don't hold up and are widely considered myth and legend.

Akhenaton is a real figure who we know existed. Saying that the first monotheists were the Hebrews is an extraordinarily difficult claim to back up with sound support. Claiming that Akhenaton's religious movement was the first monotheism is much easier to justify.

fair enough, though you have to wonder where akhenaten got the idea for a monotheistic religion, especially when you consider that he was pharaoh during the time the israelites were supposedly in egypt. and some scholars even believe that moses fled egypt after akhenaten's death.

 

[Louis XXIV]

snarzberry, that's why I said resourceless swordsman. Basically, to give fair reference to the fact that they didn't need iron. That being said, it would allow far more swordsmen than any other Civ, so, unless there's a cost increase/power decrease, it would probably be a bit unfair (even if the Maori were pretty tough warriors).

awesome, of course, some scholars believe that the Israelites were never in Egypt, so "some scholars" aren't exactly the most authoritative of sources. But we're horribly off topic.

 

[Pouakai]

That is correct - The taiaha was made from wood and Ponamu.

Warrior/Spearman would be too early timeline-wise for them

 

[nokmirt]

My problem with Privateers is similar to i.e. Musketeers: the time period in which they are useful is so short that by the time you build them and get them to the battlefield they are obsolete.

I think they are better for certain mods dealing with the age of piracy.

 

[snarzberry]

That is correct - The taiaha was made from wood and Ponamu.

Warrior/Spearman would be too early timeline-wise for them

yeah as far as realism goes they'd have to be showing up around what, 1000CE - 1200CE or something. That's going to be a tough ask for the poor maori with his stick to compete with other units of that time. It's a UU so I guess you want it to fit historically though, it would be silly having an ancient era American UU. I don't know. What unit would you suggest it replaces?

On second thoughts, maybe the resourceless swordsman idea is a good one. Even then it will come far too early though, but realism is not everything I guess.

 

[Pouakai]

Go here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/gallery.php?game_id=12880&article_id=1333279#anchor

Full res screenies. Based on this, the scenario:

Hotu Matua
Hivan Empire​

Aloha, great Polynesian king! You currently rule over one of the great islands of your people. Though life on your lush, tropical island is an idyllic one, you thirst for even more greatness across the waves. Your people have invented Wayfinding, a sophisticated navigation system that relies on your knowledge of the stars, the birds, and the currents of the mighty Pacific Ocean. Your bold navigators are ready to stike out hundreds of miles across the open ocean in their double-hulled canoes, questing for new islands to colonize. Can you sucessfully traverse the deadly waves and find a foothold beyond your original coastal home? Can you expand your island's culture and dominate the mighty Pacific?

VICTORY CONDITIONS

Victory goes to the first civilization who can adopt all social policies to become the dominant culture in the Pacific.

SPECIAL RULES

There are all new tech and social policy trees appropriate to the scenario's Pacific Ocean setting. Each of the four major civilizations starts with a unique trait and can gain the usual Polynesian bonuses (Moai improvement and Maori Warrior Unit) through research. Grow your empire as large as you want; the costs of social policies does NOT increase based on number of cities in the empire.

Hotu Matua's colonists​

Recieve a free settler when you research astronomy​

 

[Louis XXIV]

Making it an ancient uu is not any different than making Impi spearmen replacements in Civ3/4. Even the Iroquois UU isn't great if you want to represent their golden age.

 

[Pouakai]

Yeah, but I still think Swordsman / Pikemen is the best choice

 

[awesome]

awesome, of course, some scholars believe that the Israelites were never in Egypt, so "some scholars" aren't exactly the most authoritative of sources. But we're horribly off topic.

conversations evolve, especially on the internet, but all right.

the maori warrior/taiaha warrior/toa being a warrior replacement would be fantastic and would even be kind of similar to how the inca had a warrior replacement and their being off in the middle of nowhere in civ 4's earth maps. it would also make them a little better on pangea maps. maybe a 7 str warrior. but i could see them replacing spears or pikes.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Here's the Wayfind UA:

Can embark and move over Oceans immediately. +1 sight when embarked. +10% combat strength if within 2 tiles of a Moai. That confirms the Moai are tile improvements (apologies for writing Moa before, although those giant birds are kickass too ). I read that to mean combat bonus for all units, not just embarked/naval units. My guess is a normal improvement of some kind that grants perhaps culture and combat bonus. Alternatively, it could be a landmark replacement, but that would make them quite rare.

 

[Pouakai]

All that trouble of typing out the scenario rules for nothing.

 

[Pouakai]

Here's the Wayfind UA:

Can embark and move over Oceans immediately. +1 sight when embarked. +10% combat strength if within 2 tiles of a Moai. That confirms the Moai are tile improvements (apologies for writing Moa before, although those giant birds are kickass too ). I read that to mean combat bonus for all units, not just embarked/naval units. My guess is a normal improvement of some kind that grants perhaps culture and combat bonus. Alternatively, it could be a landmark replacement, but that would make them quite rare.

I'd love to have a Moa UU.

The Moai could be a landmark buildable by workers?

 

[Louis XXIV]

If that's true, I'd imagine it would have less culture than a Landmark, but I could be wrong.

 

[Pouakai]

Could it be possible another improvement would be buildable on the tile, but Moai can only be built on the coastal tiles?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The thing is, I don't think you can take historical achievement only in compared to today. I think every historical achievement should stand in relation to where others were at the time. Sargon of Akkad paled in comparison to Alexander the Great, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an important conqueror.

But I stand by my point. Without talking about cultural or population expansion, defend England's specific contributions? Or defend France's? If it were just geographic, I'd argue for something like the Aborigines in Australia or the Zulu in South Africa. But the expansion across the Pacific was so damn impressive that I think I can stand above the rest by pointing to that.

An Achievement is best compared to the same time (Massive points for Polynesia)

A Contribution is based on what was given to someone else. (Major loss of points for Polynesia, as other achievements Not based on their achievements overshadowed theirs)

So their impact was minimal.

As for other civ's contributions (can also include impact like Carthage.. didn't contribute much but was a reasonable speed bump).. you can't alk about an Impact without talking about population or cultural expansion... indeed that is the basics of what we are talking about.. that civ's population or some aspect of its culture expanded... at the very least enough to change the direction of civs that conflicted with it)


And it is not Purely geographic... but the Reason Polynesia is there ahead of say Portugal is geographic
The reason Polynesia is there ahead of the Aborigines (if they Ever make it in) is achievement/impact/contributions.


...............
The Moai statues do look like a tile improvement. (they have the same scheme).. Possibly a "Landmark" Improvement [+1 Culture for tile].. if that was OP it could require maintenance, probably needs to be coastal, might even consume the Worker.

Maori Warrior, I'm willing to bet on a Swordsman.. resourceless would Probably be OP

 

[D712]

Personally I think there are two reasons that Polynesia are in are this:

1.) It's fresh. They are a civ that (excuse me if I am wrong) hasn't been released in any DLC's/Expansion packs/Base games.

2.) They have gone unrecognized for their contributions by the western world. The polynesians are the reason that we had people to encounter on those remote Pacific islands. They populated areas that the rest of the world couldn't reach. I believe it is high time they get recognized for their work

 

[awesome]

maybe the moai replace forts?

 

[Pouakai]

Or maybe they don't replace anything, like the Terrace Farm?

 

[brxbrx]

did i mention that I was the first to mention the early embarkation idea on the 2k forums?