New Patch - First Impressions?

[Randall Turner]

I doubt that GL is a wise move on Deity unless you're willing to restart if you miss it (which is a bit cheesy IMO). I tried it yesterday on Immortal with a straight beeline (mining->writing, two chops) and wasn't even near to get it. Others have reported they have got it easily, so it seems to be very game-dependent. However, if you lose it you're left in a very bad shape, so the risk is great. And the effect isn't so big after all as you can only take Philosophy. You will get Philo around the same time by just researching it.

This. (wonder completion being game-dependent.) The AI was very agressively building Wonders in my first game. I restarted (not because of missing wonders, because of the damn Aztecs overrunning me while I still only had one city) and managed to build a few key Wonders, including the Great Libarary. (On Deity, both games.) Small sample size, still.

I'm no warmonger at heart, but in my first game I'm running Honor with the Aztecs, and it's FUN. In my previous Aztec games pre-patch, they always seemed better suited as a builder civ, and I'm guessing that this new version is the way they were originally intended.

These numbnuts have started right next to me on both my games so far, I'm glad you're enjoying them, I'm starting to seriously dislike them.

Odd that they declared war so soon in my first game, I didn't really have a weak military nor was I expanding towards them. <shrug> I can see how their culture points would really pay off, I'm getting a significant boost from Barbarian culture even as a "normal" civ. (Playing as Songhai, hunting them for the money, but the little blue "6" floating up is nice, too.)

These guys (stoopit Aztecs) are #1 on my hit parade now that I've got an infrastructure set up, by the way.

 

[joyous_gard]

Wasn't there supposed to be graphs in-game, like info-addict?

Can somebody tell me where to find them?

Yeah what about this? I tried looking through some of the menu choices to see an in game graph but couldn't find it. I thought those graphs were going to be in game too? Weak sauce if it's just at the end.

 

[joyous_gard]

Here is a few things I noticed so far:
1) It doesn't seem the AI builds a lot of wonders, I think they only use GE to rush build. I had time to build the Great Library in a second city without much difficulty

Yeah this is definitely true in my current Prince game. I am building Stonehenge in 1725. There are a ton of wonders left too. It takes 3 turns to build.

I kind of like it, but I think something is off.

 

[Seek]

Yeah what about this? I tried looking through some of the menu choices to see an in game graph but couldn't find it. I thought those graphs were going to be in game too? Weak sauce if it's just at the end.

I've read the patch threads both here and on 2k's forum and saw nothing but speculation here - nobody from Firaxis said they would be included ingame. *However* Robk, InfoAddict's creator, said he will be updating his mod to work with the new graph system, so I expect IA to run more efficiently than ever.

 

[Farrapo]

I have not played very far in yet, but both the AI civs and barbs seem more aggressive (which is good). I like the SP changes overall - found myself making some early Honor picks for a change. I had been bemoaning that archers were uninteresting but they seem useful now ... cheaper, more powerful, and seemingly more early defense needed. Nice to have the crossbows buffed too. There is a lot more to think about now in the game ... a much wider selection of approaches, unit selection, SPs, etc. have become viable. I think it's the best patch yet by far.

 

[Calouste]

I noticed that the 8 maintenance-free units you get from the Free Speech sp save you a pile of money, somewhere between 40-50 on Standard.

Beats out the Commerce policies by a significant margin. I mean, when are you going to have 100 railroad tiles or a capital that produces 160+ gpt?

 

[bhavv]

Stoneworks:

First Impression - Nice, extra happiness and production.

After playing the game - WTH, my stone and marble cities are built on plains tiles so I cant build it? WHY?

 

[sqeaky]

I'm playing emperor/small/standard settings, and at about 400 AD the game is slowing down incredibly and the quicksave is not working. Anyone else having this problem?

 

[joyous_gard]

Just finished my first game with new patch. Those charts and replays are a great start but need some more attention.

First off, the interface on the graphs is weak. Second, the different graphs are good, but sometimes too much information is not a good thing. Try to get the graphs organized by relevance. Maybe 4 or 5 important items should be at the top of the list and other items should be elsewhere. Maybe it's best to have categories for the graphs - like commerce graphs, population graphs, science graphs.

That replay is a great start. Good effort, but it looks like the game went back to the 90s for those hex pixels as they expand. Also, I feel that IV did it right combining the replay with the turn by turn messages. As it is now, it just says Turn 1, Turn 2, Turn 3. Not very informational. The game is about a journey through the age of man, it's not some dorky turn based strategy game.

Also, try to reduce the load time on the replay button. Maybe have it pre-load or something. It feels unprofessional. All the other options on victory screen can be clicked on and you get instant information but the replay button hangs for a few seconds.

Overall the game still is not as engrossing as IV, but it's plugging along. I keep getting the urge to want to buy DLC so you better put out an expansion soon. Nice work on the patch!

 

[Sonereal]

I noticed that the 8 maintenance-free units you get from the Free Speech sp save you a pile of money, somewhere between 40-50 on Standard.

Beats out the Commerce policies by a significant margin. I mean, when are you going to have 100 railroad tiles or a capital that produces 160+ gpt?

My capital produces 160+ GPT *smug*

But seriously, Free Speech is great. Especially since the policy that saves you money on railroads/roads is pretty much useless on archipelago. 50% would've been much better.

 

[Agent Cooper]

Played 2 games post patch, emperor level Babylon & Germany.

I experience what a lot of you guys describe - the AI civs build less wonders. I was able to hard-build GL and HG in both games, but I should mention that research + SP were focused to achieve this.

Also, when they declare war, they send more pre-built units in one wave and quite a lot of those are archers. Egypt sent something like 6 chariots, 2 archers and 2 warriors in an early attack.

Babylon is without question one of the strongest civs post-patch, possible the strongest of the bunch. Germany is still somewhat bland to play despite the slight overall buff.

Worst 'problems' so far: it feels like culture just stalls midgame even though you have decent culture per turn points. The nerfed modifiers really make an impact. Tactical combat AI is still a mess. Diplomacy the same - AI civs can declare on you (like 4 civs on the same turn, some of them friendly with active RA) out of the blue even if you never declared war, never razed and have quite a powerful military force. It's bollocks.

Stone is a great addition and the elements the patch 'borrowed' from the TBC mod are working quite well.

 

[fat_tonle]

Well culture win takes forever now... but the unhappiness isn't a huge issue though. The connecting road policy in Libery and Organized religion pretty much nullify the happiness nerfs on Emperor. Gonna try Immortal next.

I still don't get what they were thinking with the honor branch. It stunk then, it still stinks now. Unless you are playing for autocracy it is still too unnecessary. And the culture against Barbs just kills all the fun of Aztecs. Terrible branch.

 

[Calouste]

My capital produces 160+ GPT *smug*

But seriously, Free Speech is great. Especially since the policy that saves you money on railroads/roads is pretty much useless on archipelago. 50% would've been much better.

Except, you would need 160gpt before multipliers for the 25% to have the same effect as Free Speech. You'd pretty much need every other hex to be a gold mine to achieve that.

The policy that gives a discount on (rail)roads should also lower the maintenance of harbors. But most of Commerce is really weak. On archipelago the left side is usually worth it for the extra movement and the hammers, but on the right side you need to pick a worthless policy to get to the 25% buying discount. And the happiness bonus is insignificant compared to the building based happiness you can get from policies in other trees. If you have a decent sized capital, Monarchy is probably as strong as 2 Commerce policies for example.

 

[Sonereal]

Yeah, commerce is pretty weak. I only picked it because I was playing on archipelago. I was shocked to see how completely useless Commerce (still) was.

 

[Polycrates]

Commerce is even weaker now that there's finishers...since the left hand side is so situational, and it's somewhat wasteful to just take the right hand side. I'd rather take a tree where I could get use out of all the policies to the finisher.

 

[ButSam]

Montezuma + Honor initial policy = +12 culture/barb! Leave those barbarian huts to generate more barbarians for you to pick off! I'm on Turn 59, and I am almost ready to pick my 5th Social Policy with Montezuma! (Probably about 6 turns away from picking social policy #5 if I don't kill any barbarians before then...but I'm leaving a barbarian hut near my capitol so I'll prolly get it quicker) I have tried Monte pre-patch and didn't really like him at all, but now I am actually having quite a bit of fun with him! Still not an amazing civ IMHO, but much stronger than pre-patch!

 

[bhavv]

After playing it for a bit longer, all I can think is that I want a revert to the previous policies.

I do miss my early GE with meritocracy very much

Now I have to complete the full liberty tree for it, not fair.

 

[Uniform Sierra]

All I can say at this point is that the 8 units which are maintenance free is amazing. You can build a defensive army and an 8 unit offensive army but only pay for the defensive while you conquer everybody with your 8 units

 

[player1 fanatic]

All I can say at this point is that the 8 units which are maintenance free is amazing. You can build a defensive army and an 8 unit offensive army but only pay for the defensive while you conquer everybody with your 8 units

What about Oligarchy? All units in garrisons being maintenance free is amazing too.

 

[Proximus]

Workers are a bit faster.

Archers and Crossbowman are much more useful.

Stone is abundant.

Infoaddict v14 works just fine.