[BTS] New Player Help

MarcusAurelius1

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Beirut, Lebanon
Hello guys!! So I just picked up Civ IV on GOG because I keep getting told it's the best Civ ever, I'm normally a Civ V player and I do pretty well at it, but Civ IV is just kicking my ass.

I'm still not used to the stacks and other such differences.

If you guys could provide me with tips, and other such things, I would really appreciate it.

I'm really loving the game so far, but I do miss the full blown diplomacy screens of V (Even tho the diplo AI in this game is better), and I love the multiple leaders per civ.
 
Welcome to the best game ever!

First, it would help to know what settings you are currently playing, as certain settings can make the game even more challenging for newer players. I'll assume you are playing BTS.

There's been discussions in the past of the major difference between IV and V, but I can assure you otherwise that they are very different games. You can google for that info for sure, but I'll provide some highlights.

1) Happiness is local. Global happiness was a terrible mechanic

2) Your main limiter to expansion is maintenance, and there are different types. You will get more savvy at understanding this as you play the game more. But distance to cap maintenance is was one of the big ones to understand for now. Try not to overextend your empire early and settle too far away. Don't be afraid of city overlap, which is actually a good thing in IV. Allows tile/resource sharing which is nice early when happiness is low anyway, as well as keeps distance maintenance lower. (Maintenance increases as you move up levels you should note)

3) Workers are for more important in IV. In fact, it is recommended that you almost always build a worker first. There are a exceptions, but rarely..mostly to do with certain coastal starts and starting techs/resources visible. But for now, worker first is a very solid play

4) Scouts on the other hand are not important..at all. Unless you start with one due to Hunting starting tech, you will not build them. In V, common play is to build a couple of scouts straight up for ruins and meeting AI. Well, many here don't play with huts on anyway, but once you play a certain difficulty grabbing huts is not a big deal at all, and AIs start with a couple themselves, so it is really a waste.

5) Further point to 4, barbs are far more dangerous in IV, so really your objective here is to use initial warrior or scout to scout the immediate area - apprx 10 tile radius - for city spots and then use them to spawnbust the area. What I mean by spawnbust is barb spawn prevention. A single unit will bust a 5X5 area from the tile it stands on..meaning no barbs can spawn in that area. This becomes more important as you move up levels and barbs spawn more aggressive. But it is a good practice to start now. Scouting is important, but not as crucial early like in V as there is not much interactions until after writing and later Alphabet and Currency. Ofc, they will meet you as well unless you are are certain map types.

6) Worker management is also very important. Use workers wisely. Improve food specials first then get up some production improvements, then chop forests

7) Teching in V is rather cookie cutter. There's a bit more strategy and variability to teching in IV. But the important things to note here are that you can a) Trade Techs after alpha b) AIs prioritize certain techs c) Early religious techs are not the way to go nor early religion. So the key here is to focus on worker techs immediately, especially food. Analyze your starting resources and you starting techs, and make sure you go for any food techs you need first. Then strat techs like Bronze Working and Animal Husbandry (also food tech) for copper and horse. Most often teching Iron Working is not a good idea at all. It is expensive early and an AI priority tech that you can easily pickup later after Alpha. Next, The Wheel, if you don't start with it, to hook up resources, if needed, and connect the all important trade routes... then Pottery>Writing>Alpha>Currency is usually good play on lower levels. After Alpha you can easily backfill all the other early techs.

8) Big one here - Slavery is really the most powerful thing in the game and something you should get a better understanding about. It's far more complicated than it initially appears on the surface as well. But I'll just say it is the main reason you hear folks say things like "FOOD IS KING" in Civ IV. Food IS Production. We can go over this more later if you actually run a shadow game or whatever.

9) Research - One of the big differences between IV and V is that research is far more complicated than the simple "Population = Science". Your primary source generally is Commerce, which is the gold looking coins on the map. Those coins are not gold. Gold has a different icon. Commerce is used for beakers, gold, culture and espionage (i assume you are playing BTS), and is altered by the sliders at the top left. Generally, first thing, you will be running 100% science for the early game, but once you settle your first city ..boom..you start running a deficit. At some point soon you will have to start playing with this slider to fund expansion and research. I won't go into detail now, as it is one of the more complex aspects of the game. But note that you should not be afraid to run 100% tax (or 0% research) for some turns to fund you next tech. This is often done once Writing arrives.

10) Great People are very important, and you can start generating them far earlier in IV. Generally, you want to get a Library up fast in your cap and run 2 scientists there. I usually use the first GS for an academy in the cap which is generally your main research hub, which is often setup for Bureaucracy civic. That will really help with the early, and later, research. There are other advanced plays for the early GS or even other great people, but no need for that now.

11) Cottages...Trading post are the closest counter-part to this improvement in V, but trading post are rather static for the game. Cottages grow and get better over time, as you may have realized already. They only grow when worked by a citizen, so try to keep them active as much as possible as these are a main source of commerce. But you don't need them everywhere. This is where city specialization, another important aspect of IV, comes into play. Try to setup cities to specialize as commerce cities. These are usually cities with lots of green river tiles or flood plains. Ideally, your capital will be one of these cites, but not always (you can move the Palace if needed).

12) Lastly, for now, I'll mention that Trade Routes are another important source of commerce. Try to make sure your cities are connected by a road or river initially (ideally the road is in place before you settle as the trade route is instant that turn). Soon after try to get foreign trade routes active as they are more lucrative. On certain maps, the Great Lighthouse is one of the most powerful wonders in the game.

I've requested a move of this thread to Strategy & Tips forum, which is a better source for assistance. I highly encourage that you start a shadow game over there for turn by turn advice and discussion. Great way to learn the game. Early game is so important in IV for the snowball effect. Moreso than V. It can be much harder to catch up in IV if you do a lot of things poorly in the early game.

Oh..and highly recommend the BUG/BULL and or BAT mod for UI enhancements

Not sure what you mean by the diplo screens. I think there is more info available to you in IV. BUG helps with that too. And Diplo is quite a bit more transparent in IV.

edit: Oh..and I highly recommend you play normal settings and maps for now. Pangaea is probably the best map to learn on as you get involved with all aspects of the game early on. Ha. I see a lot of new players come here struggling only to find out they are playing with really wonky settings like normal speed on Huge maps. Normal settings provide a very satisfying game.
 
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Fantastic post, lymond!

All I can add is Civ IV is much harder game than Civ V (or Civ VI). If you were regularly beating Civ V at Deity difficulty level, you may have to scale down to Monarch/Emperor for Civ IV. The difficulty differential between Civ IV and Civ V/VI really is that big. I'd start even two levels below that (Noble/Prince difficulty level) until you get acclimated to Civ IV.

When I first played Civ IV Vanilla/Warlord, prior to joining CivFanatics, I struggled to win Domination Victories at Noble level. With the help of these forums, I can now win at Deity level via Civ IV Beyond the Sword.

To summurize, I suggest starting at Noble/Prince level and work up to higher levels as you learn to play more efficiently based on help from this forum.
 
I'm currently playing on Pangea, Normal Speed and Standard size to practice before I move up to the bigger leagues

Where do I find this UI mod you're speaking of? I'm trying to play on Warlord difficulty just to test the mechanics before I move up the difficulty

Thanks alot for your posts guys, it shed some light on alot of things I missed.

EDIT: Could you elaborate more on the slavery civic and "Food is king"?
 
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I don't know where to get the mods lymond suggested (Edit: I see now that he posted a response faster that I did; see his post above), but you can get the HoF mods (also required by GOTM) here:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php

I believe the BUFFY module contains nearly all the functionality of the Bug module. The bonus is that BUFFY is required for all Civ IV Beyond the Sword game submissions to the Hall of Fame (HoF) and Game of the Month (GOTM) competitions. HoF modules are also the only mods allowed when competing in these two competitive venues.

If you don't plan to compete in the above two venues, you would be better off using BUG, etc. as lymond suggested. That is what most players on this forum use. Some use both BUG and BUFFY, but you have to ensure they don't conflict with each other. lymond may have some suggestions in this regard.
 
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Yeah, I'll recap that mods here as well:

a) BUG and BULL are ui mods that can be installed stand-alone or in custom assets (you will see this in installer). Most install in custom assets as a) you can just run BTS normally b) does not conflict with most forum games here

FYI - "Standalone" means the mod is loaded separately and will most times conflict if other mods are run. However, the installation of a stand-alone mod itself does not conflict with anything. In other words, just having the mod installed does not mean you can't have other mods installed.

b) BAT is BUG/BULL and graphical enhancements wrapped up in one nice pretty bow. It's the mod I use most for all my personal games. Nothing to do but install and enjoy. (It is stand-alone)

c) BUFFY is HOF mod as Wu noted, used for HOF and GOTM games. It is stand alone.

4) Blue Marble is another mod you can access via that link. It is graphical stuff (included in BAT as well) that is nice to have and you can even change the color of your UI, which is very nice. You install this once or adjust to your liking. It does not conflict with anything nor do you have to load it.

You can have all the above installed at the same time with one exception of note. BULL itself comes with a separate DLL file (explained in install notes). The DLL will conflict with other mods, so I add an extension on the end and switch between bull and vanilla dll as needed.

BUG/BULL files in Custom assets should not conflict with BAT or BUFFY mods since they all pretty much contain the same assets. Just the BULL DLL needs to be changed (although BAT does not have an issue with it that I've seen)

However, BUG/BULL in Custom Assets may indeed conflict with any other stand-alone mods you might be interested in trying out later like fantasy or expansion mods. Simple solution is to save off the Custom Assets fold and rename with like "bug) at the end. You now have no existing Custom Asset folder, but running the game normally will simply create a new vanilla folder for you. Easy as blueberry pie topped with homemade whipped cream.

Hmm..I know that may seem like a lot but really is much easier than it seems. All these mods have installers with the exception of BULL, which is just copy/past back in the designated folder. (instructions included)

And BUFFY, BUG, BAT are all related and simply add some ui and info enhancements. Things are far easier to read. Some individuals/purists have claimed that that fact changes the game, but to be clear these mods add nothing that you cannot already see in the game. It's just less clikcing, and for most that is a good thing.
 
As to slavery, I think the links I pointed to you will provide some good help on the basics. Slavery is very powerful and food and growth is the key to making it work effectively for you. This is why the unsexy Granary is actually the most important building in the game. It will take some time to fully understand these concepts, but simply put, the Granary boosts the growth factor in cities...but not like the V granary. More like the Aqueduct, which obviously was so important they made it a free benefit of completing the Tradition Social Policy - and why V experts often built Aqueducts first in cities if they either did not go Traditions or for new cites not getting the free one.. However, the difference here is that it's all about using that growth for production and whipping (actually reducing your citizenship for hammers), as opposed to growing for science.

I recommend that you should not even feel pressured to finish games now. Instead just use practice games. Your start save can been found in the "autosaves" folder or you can just save your start. Find a good Pangaea start - ideally non-coastal - with at least one to two good food resources (river corns, wheat or rice or grassy pigs). Set no more than...say 50 turns as a goal for now..100 at most and use those turns to practice worker management, expansion, economy, and teching. Read up on the concepts we've laid out so far and the slavery primer. Practice this stuff in the process. Replay those 50 turns again.

(Note: I'm saying all this based on the assumption that you are an enthused strategist that intends to at least improve and move up difficulties rather than strictly the casual gamer)

And, ofc, feel free to post your games and results here for discussion and feedback. It's much easier for use to provide feedback early game where many of the mistakes are made. Even easier in shorter turn progressive intervals. What we like to call a "shadow game".
 
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Thanks alot lymond and Sun Tzu Wu, you guys rock!

I'll be reading through these links and checking out the mods when i get home.

Once again thanks alot for all the advice, I appreciate it!
 
Kossin's micro challenge maps were awesome to learn basic city & worker mechanics, esp. cos they get your mind off many things you normally think about when playing real maps.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/micro-challenge-bc-4000-civbeyondswordsave.353414/
Goal: maximize Thebes population in 25 turns :)

Solution can be found here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/micro-challenge.498592/page-2#post-12537600

Another one: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/micro-challenge-ii.498753/
Some pics are missing i think, but saves & solutions are there :)
There's even a short video with his solution, should be very helpful for new players:

You will probably wonder what's going on there ;)
But when pausing often, and trying to copy you would learn much about slavery, granaries & food stored and how you can get stuff done with no production other than whipping.
 
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Slavery is a civic you get with bronze working and you can "whip" cities to get production. The whip icon is in the Examine City screen at the bottom right. When you whip, it takes one population from that city and turns it into hammers (production). When whipping it gives unhappiness for ten turns. When slavery is on there will also be a slave revolt percentage, which may obviously throw the city into revolt. That was a very simple understanding of slavery that yiu should have. It gets complicated (dont worry im not so good either). But just any chance, is Civ V any good? It looks like complete €r@p.
 
Sullla has done some youtube videos that might be helpful. Here's a video on opening strategy. Here's a gameplay series where he spells out all the mechanics of the game. He explains his decisions very clearly (sometimes even a tad repetitively). There's a lot to be learned there.

One more thing--there's tons of good advice in the posts lymond and others have made. That's a lot to digest at once, so I'll just say that the one thing that transformed my Civ IV game more than anything else was the realization that working improved tiles is really, really important. Unlike in Civ V, the difference between improved and unimproved tiles is gigantic. So you want to build a worker first and you want to prioritize techs that let you improve the surrounding terrain. You want to settle sites with food, too, because only those cities will be able to grow quickly and work more improved tiles quickly (the powerful Slavery civic is another reason why food is important). That realization was what got me moving quickly up the difficulty levels. This is another reason why I recommend Sullla's videos--he really harps on this point, and he carefully plans things out so that his cities grow onto improved tiles and he gets the worker techs when he needs them.

Once you feel better about your core economic management, there's a youtuber named Chris67132 (also known as AbsoluteZero on these forums) who has a ton of Immortal/Deity Civ IV videos. He doesn't explain his economic decisions in as much detail as Sullla (and frankly, his micromanagement is often a little sloppy), but if you want to learn how to conduct stack warfare and how to use the whip, that's your guy. Some of the wars he manages to win against larger and more advanced opposition are just amazing.
 
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When you whip, it takes one population from that city and turns it into hammers (production). When whipping it gives unhappiness for ten turns. When slavery is on there will also be a slave revolt percentage, which may obviously throw the city into revolt. That was a very simple understanding of slavery that yiu should have.
Two points: 1) When whipping, you will loose the number of population points needed to complete the item in the que, up to half the population of the city. If you don't have enough population in the city, you won't be able to whip that item. 2) Slave revolts only happen if you have events turned on in your game.
 
...and a lot of folks play without events on
 
Two points: 1) When whipping, you will loose the number of population points needed to complete the item in the que, up to half the population of the city. If you don't have enough population in the city, you won't be able to whip that item. 2) Slave revolts only happen if you have events turned on in your game.
Yeah thanks Lennier! I forgot to say that but, yeah basically thats how slavery works. And on the stack warfare, it's wayyy more realistic, and fun (At least I think so)! You will get used to it eventually and its good when conducting attacks or defending against city sieges! You will learn how to use it, but if you want, somebody else (or I can) make a reply or forum about it.
 
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