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New Portugal Mod (In Development)

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Creation & Customization' started by jaldaen, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    Thanks to inspiration and files from Dale's AoEII, I have decided to create a new civ for Portugal.

    So far have everything up and running and now I'm trying to decide on leaders and leadership traits.

    I currently have Dom Pedro II as a leader. However, I am inclined to add a one or two more leaders. Some of the front-runners are: Martim de Sousa (first royal governor of Brazil, but he was only there for at the beginning for a few years), Mem de Sa (third royal governor of Brazil, seems a solid choice for early flavor), and José Bonifácio de Andrada e Silva (statesman who helped encourage Dom Pedro I to declare indepenence and tutored Dom Pedro II).

    Anyways I'm looking for ideas as to what the Portugal trait should be and what each leader's trait should be.

    Portugal Traits

    For the Portugal trait I do like Dale's +25% crosses. It scales well throughout the game and it does reflect Portugal's effectiveness in spreading the faith. However, I am open to suggestions, especially any missionary-based ones as an alternative since Portugal was greatly helped by the Jesuits. The reason for focusing on crosses or missionaries is because I think the civ trait should be based on how the civ operated generally before declaration, while the leader trait should be focused on what the leader accomplished in his life.

    As for starting units I am thinking a free colonist pioneer and free colonist soldier. However, I am open to suggestions in case someone has any other ideas.

    Leader Traits

    Dom Pedro II: I am currently leaning towards +33% education (+1 per schoolhouse, +2 per college, +4 per university) becuase he was committed to educating his people and built many schools throughout Brazil. However, I wonder if this is too little for a leader trait. Should I also add in a free schoolhouse in each settlement as well? Or would this be too much? Any other thoughts about how to simulate his push for education?

    Mem de Sa: I'm think a military traits would be good for this leader because he's was such an effective military leader. Perhaps Resourceful (-50% XP for promotions), although I'm open to other suggestions for a unique trait. He also had good relatinships with the natives and promoted agriculture so I could see some of these being a good starting point for a trait.

    Martim de Sousa: There are a few ways to go with him, but I'm leaning towards Enterprising (+100% native conversion rate) because he was known to be friendly to the natives. However, I am open to other suggestions, especially where exploration and natives are concerned.

    José Bonifácio de Andrada e Silva: Since he was instrumental in pushing for Independence I think Libertarian works well (+25% LB). However again I'm open to suggestions.

    PS: If you have any other suggestions about Portugal as a civilization or its leaders, then let me know. I'd love to hear your ideas. ;)
     
  2. metaller

    metaller Chieftain

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    Dont make the mistake to assume Portugal is Brasil... We were the first contry begining colonization around all world ( America, Africa, Asia) its not fair to assume that only founders of Brasil should represent Portugal. If there is no Infante there wouldnt be no Brasil, Angola, Moçambique, Timor, Macau, etc... He was the one who started all!!! He should be in the game even if like a founding father... You can have D.Pedro (first king of brasil) but he already is a founding father... Vasco da Gama should be a choice, Pedro Alvares Cabral, Bartolomeu Dias and Diogo Cão!!!

    The cities should be from other colonies in africa and asia too... We didnt have colonies only in america... and i think colonization should be world wide and not only playable in america...
     
  3. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    Fair enough. I was just starting with Brazil because its familiar to me was settled by Portugal and gained its independence from the homeland at least close to the end of the game. All the leader suggestions are just initial thoughts on leaders that fit the settler and/or revolutionary theme of the game.

    Yeah I nixed Dom Pedro I and Cabral b/c they were founding fathers.

    As for Infante, Bartolomeu Dias and Diogo Cão I did not include them because they either did not found and/or govern settlements or declare independence and/or rule a new nation.* I think it is important for Colonization's leaders to be one of those types of historical leaders.

    *At least from my quick look overs of their Wikipedia entries.

    If you know of any Portuguese leaders outside of Brazil that fit this description, then let me know as I'd love to include them or at least consider them.

    I'd love to add those in if you have some resources to point me to... I'll of course look into it myself, but always helpful to get good links ;)

    Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definately keep them in mind going forward and look forward to any help you can provide.
     
  4. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    Okay I think I've settled on the benefits of the Education trait for Dom Pedro II's. It will provide +50% faster Schoolhouse production and +25% education production. This means schoolhouses will be easy to get and colleges and universities will have a good yield increase, but still cost the same. This way it does not step on any of the FF's toes, but goes well with Alexander von Humboldt and Alexis de Touqueville.

    I'll start testing it out and see how it works out in play. ;)
     
  5. Zomgmeister

    Zomgmeister Emerged Lurker

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    I really don't like that "+25% crosses" became universal Portugal trait in mod community.

    It resembles too much of an English "-25% crosses required to pop another colonist in Europe".

    English - more colonists.
    French - friendship with natives.
    Dutch - better trade.
    Spanish - better warfare against natives.
    Portugal - better production of raw materials, for example? Or -25% food required to pop another colonist in New World, not in Europe?
     
  6. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    Actually, +25 crosses has a completely different effect than English -25% immigration cost. :)

    Gameplay wise, English trait is beneficial at the start of the game when no cross production is up yet (cheaper immigrants means faster colonisation) whilst the Portuguese trait is beneficial at the mid-late stage as higher religious FF generation and more crosses converted into hammers/bells on DoI.
     
  7. Zomgmeister

    Zomgmeister Emerged Lurker

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    I didn't said that they are exactly the same. Yes, one harvests earlier and another blossoms later.

    But in general, they still buff one trait - rate of immigration. From pure gameplay standpoint, it's somewhat bland.
     
  8. Dale

    Dale Deity

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    Except they play completely differently. That's not bland.
     
  9. Cela

    Cela Chieftain

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    I didin´t like the trait in the beginning, it looked more of the same.

    But I have to recognize that there its a big difference. You can even think that the trait helps to represent that the Portuguese could attract more population by slavery. But only when the colonies were established and working.
     
  10. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    As I said before I'm open to other suggestions...

    Such as these ;)

    I think a +25% production would be an interesting trait, although I wonder how that would work out with the slavery option after DoI. I am also looking into what made Portuguese colonies different from others. Perhaps the history will hold the key to creating a good simulation of the Portuguese during this time period.
     
  11. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    I've noticed a lot of references to the Jesuit order while doing research for this mod and I'm wondering if one of the first units should be a Jesuit Missionary. Is it possible to have the starting Pioneer be a Jesuit Missionary? If so, do you think this is a good idea and what would be the proper code to do so? Alternatively, I could make the starting Soldier a Jesuit Missionary. However, I'm not certain that would be a good idea or not.
     
  12. metaller

    metaller Chieftain

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  13. Cela

    Cela Chieftain

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  14. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Isn't the timeline of Colonization a little early for Dom Pedro II to be a leader?

    José Bonifácio would make for a much better founding father than a leader, he fits that role much better... Dom Pedro I would be the ideal to put as a leader.
     
  15. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    He's a bit outside of the timeline and I think one of the reasons why Portugal was not included was because its Independence comes outside of Colonization's time schedule. Dom Pedro I would be closer, but he's a FF.

    I agree with Jose Bonifacio. As for Dom Pedro I he's a FF and I wanted to make this mod work with vanilla Colonization if at all possible. However, maybe I'll switch Dom Pedro I out of the FFs and find someone else to take his place.
     
  16. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    I see what you mean, and I think you do have a point in wanting to make it be as compatible with vanilla as possible, but Dom Pedro I is the typical Colonization leader, switching him out of the FFs would be more interesting than keeping him there while we add the portuguese colony.

    On another note, we could also add non-portuguese/brazilian founding fathers or even leaders (but for their respective nation, of course) that had a significance on the portuguese empire. For example; Jean-Baptiste Debret (french artist that came to Rio de Janeiro following the court's establishment), Grandjean de Montigny (french architect that came to Rio de Janeiro in the same group as Debret), Nicolas Durand de Villegaignon (founder of France Antarctique) and Johan Maurits van Nassau-Siegen (dutch governor of the dutch West Indies Company in the northeast of Brazil.

    Btw, I'm looking forward to playing the mod :D
     
  17. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    I agree it would be more interesting and accurate... if someone would like to find a FF replacement for Dom Pedro I (someone who would give +50% GG, and Veteran/Minuteman I) and design a piece of art in Colonization's FF style that would be perfect... of course that assumes the FF's can be replaced or added to in the first place. Anyone know if this is possible?

    Interesting idea... I wonder if you can add more FFs to the list. It would be nice to be able to add to their number. The only downside if you can add FF is the art style for FFs is distinct and adding non-professional portraits of them would probably look jarringly different in game.

    I'm looking forward to finishing it ;)
     
  18. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    So the more and more I look into Portugal's colonization-efforts the more I'm leaning towards some kind of trade benefit for their Civ trait. They were one of the smaller colonial empires and it seems they focused on a lot of small trade-oriented settlements at least at the beginning. Perhaps the civ trait could be some bonus to trading with natives in combination with improved native conversion and/or better speak with chief/scouting results? Not certain what would be best, but it should encourage interaction with the natives in trade, faith, and exploration if at all possible.

    However, I'm still reading up on Portugal and so perhaps I might come up with something else.
     
  19. metaller

    metaller Chieftain

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    Im glad that you are reaserching about Portugal to make the MOD i bet it will be very acurate to the portuguese colonitazion. My fear was that you make a Portugal civ based only in brasil colonization... Because Portugal was much more than that!!!
    Our interaction with the natives happened because we couldnt use them as slaves (like we did in africa) in reports from the time its said that the natives when forced to work just give up their lives and eventually they died... So unkile Spain the slaughter everyone we interact with them (we mixed with the natives making a new ways of manpower) Portugal didnt have much population in other and have a great colonial empire. They had to arrange ways to populate all their colonies, in fact we dindt had a bigger empire because of that...
    Other thing to take aknoladge was that we were the last european contry to give their colonies... Brasil was one of the first to gain independence and have a support from a portuguese royal blood D.Pedro (at the time portugal was in a internal revolution couldnt do much about it) so there wasnt a real war for independence... we even have troops at the time to defend Portugal claims in Brasil. In other end the war of independence in Angola and Mozambique http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerra_Colonial_Portuguesa happened in 1961 e 1974 and it was over when it happened a revolution in Portugal that ended our fascist gouvernament we had for a long time!!!
    Macau a region in China that belonged to Portugal for 400 years was the last colonie of our empire it was delivered to China in 1999 :p

    We have a history of colonization so big and important... i allways think that is a crime to be almost forgotten by the rest of the world :p

    Sid Meier please read a book about portuguese history ;) hehehe
     
  20. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    I'm considering adding the carrack to the list of ships (though not as a Portugal only unit). It would be the halfway point between the Caravel and Galleon (as it was in RL) with a 4 Str, 3 Move, and 4 cargo spaces. It would be slower than a Merchantman, but I think I would be okay with it being able to attack instead of being able to run away. Alternatively, instead of attacking it might start with Navigation I.

    If you have any thoughts about this or comments/suggestions on how to make the carrack a unique unit that fits the rest of the game without stepping on any of the other unit's toes, then please let me know.
     

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