Pavel Chichikov
King
- Joined
- May 26, 2012
- Messages
- 674
Epic fail... I've been doing practically since since DoC came out.
New Portuguese UP?
- Thread starter Cosmos1985
- Start date
therox
Hydralisk
So it'll be the free resettlement ?
what about a UP that allows ocean trade with Optics?
edit: that doesn't last long enough to be useful, but you could give it to everyone I think. it would help Portugal and thats really only fair since if they have the tech to found a colony how could they be unable to conduct trade? it would also help civs that got conquerors and took new world cities with them. and wasn't here an exploit involving building warriors in the unconnected new world cities?
Cosmos1985
King
I like this idea - and everything else - better than the free resettlement. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to give Portugal something that'll make it grow quite strong early, and then fade away later - that's how it's supposed to be. And especially when we look at the Portugal >< NL - thing, it would actually be a beautiful design idea to give each a UP that suits - and boosts - their respective golden ages. Power of I-have-no-freaking-idea: Ocean trade allowed with Optics + some boost to foreign trade/free slave(s) or a catholic missionary in new colonies/some other minor thing it makes sense to combine it with?
I really don't like to give a civ a UP that is two very different effects combined under one name. It's a stealthy way of giving them two UPs, and even if both of them are rather weak compared to others I don't want to do that.
Tibet is the closest I've come to this (or maybe Congo), but in both cases the effects were clearly affecting the same aspect of the game (missionaries and tropical terrain, respectively).
That said, maybe allowing Ocean trade with Optics for Portugal isn't that bad of an idea. It's definitely stronger than their current one. I don't really want to do it for everyone, because Astronomy currently also gives quite the boost in overseas trade between Europe and Asia, and that would come too early with Optics (possibly up to the point where Astronomy wouldn't be worth its cost anymore). Portugal on the other hand is still motivated to research Astronomy to make use of their Trading Company.
Tibet is the closest I've come to this (or maybe Congo), but in both cases the effects were clearly affecting the same aspect of the game (missionaries and tropical terrain, respectively).
That said, maybe allowing Ocean trade with Optics for Portugal isn't that bad of an idea. It's definitely stronger than their current one. I don't really want to do it for everyone, because Astronomy currently also gives quite the boost in overseas trade between Europe and Asia, and that would come too early with Optics (possibly up to the point where Astronomy wouldn't be worth its cost anymore). Portugal on the other hand is still motivated to research Astronomy to make use of their Trading Company.
Cosmos1985
King
That makes sense. Well, my "vote" goes to that option then. I fail to see the point of giving Portugal a stability buff they don't need, in order to make up for them losing Brazil 3-400 years later - at a point where the UP will be just about obsolete and not very relevant anymore. And given that they have a UU already that can cross oceans and transport settlers and soldiers and everything else, it does make quite a lot of sense to say that their ships could be used for trading too.
It's worth pointing out here that the Portuguese reached the Cape of Good Hope only four years (one turn on Marathon speed) before Columbus landed in the Caribbean.
If anything, I think looking back to how they were in the original Civ 4 makes sense here. A bonus to stability for a civ with such solid stability already seems silly and superfluous, but a bonus to Worker and especially Settler production would be awesome.
NerfCothons
Warlord
The argument that Portugal doesn't need a stability buff is a good one and as UP free resettlement is a bit boring. The reason I would still advocate that we consider the free resettlement UP is the unfortunate incentive it promotes. While carracks enable settling before astronomy, the lack of resettlement encourages a human player to think twice before settler spamming. This is not a particularly fun mechanic in my opinion.
Cosmos1985
King
I don't completely understand that reasoning 
We agree that Portugals stability is quite robust already as it is - and with ocean trade, colonies would give them more beakers, more hammers, more trade routes, more resources - to trade and to use themself. So there's basicly no downside to building them, even though you'd miss out on the stability buff from resettlement?
Although I don't think it would be OP to combine THAT with the ocean trade with optics-thing: so that the UP would be "Ocean trade and Resettlement enabled with Optics/Compass". Would that be closely enough tied, that you'd consider that, Leoreth? (If that's what we're ending up with, that is)
We agree that Portugals stability is quite robust already as it is - and with ocean trade, colonies would give them more beakers, more hammers, more trade routes, more resources - to trade and to use themself. So there's basicly no downside to building them, even though you'd miss out on the stability buff from resettlement? Although I don't think it would be OP to combine THAT with the ocean trade with optics-thing: so that the UP would be "Ocean trade and Resettlement enabled with Optics/Compass". Would that be closely enough tied, that you'd consider that, Leoreth? (If that's what we're ending up with, that is)
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