New Portuguese UP?

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Remember that these changes should take into consideration how this will affect Portugal's competition with the Dutch,
as their respective performances are quite often dependent on the status of the other.

 

[Tschako]

Maybe something that prevents them from being pushed out of Europe too early? It happens to often that they loose Lisboa and cripple the rest of the game

 

[Cosmos1985]

Maybe something that prevents them from being pushed out of Europe too early? It happens to often that they loose Lisboa and cripple the rest of the game

Yeah that was part of the reasoning for my Tordesillas-suggestion - it really happens too often. Maybe AI/Ai-Spain/Portugal can get an attitude+ modifier? Yes, I know that they also had conflicts and Portugal was a Spanish vassal for sometime, but wars between them ingame way too often leads to this result - Portugal losing Lisboa, and never getting it back. What can be done to prevent this?

 

[Bair_the_Normal]

Make it so Portuguese workers can build slave plantations.

 

[Leoreth]

Make it so Portuguese workers can build slave plantations.

This would have the consequence that Portugal of all civs wouldn't need to rely on slaves too much.

 

[Wondering Kid]

Yeah that was part of the reasoning for my Tordesillas-suggestion - it really happens too often. Maybe AI/Ai-Spain/Portugal can get an attitude+ modifier? Yes, I know that they also had conflicts and Portugal was a Spanish vassal for sometime, but wars between them ingame way too often leads to this result - Portugal losing Lisboa, and never getting it back. What can be done to prevent this?

Problem is that the very own game AI is set to fight wars to the bitter end. Civ programmers never expected (let's be honest, who could have expected this) that players would want to keep a Civilization alive even if it's annoying and they have the power to crush them within a couple of turns... So they made AIs fight to the last, to motivate players to devise strategies to beat the opposition.
I normally find myself using World Builder just to make Portugal sign peace with its attacker. At extreme cases, I wipe out entire stacks to ensure that no one wipes the other out. A hidden modifier, that forces Spain and Portugal to be friendly, yet that forces both to trains Privateers; at least until 19th Century would be nice....

 

[Cosmos1985]

Problem is that the very own game AI is set to fight wars to the bitter end. Civ programmers never expected (let's be honest, who could have expected this) that players would want to keep a Civilization alive even if it's annoying and they have the power to crush them within a couple of turns... So they made AIs fight to the last, to motivate players to devise strategies to beat the opposition.
I normally find myself using World Builder just to make Portugal sign peace with its attacker. At extreme cases, I wipe out entire stacks to ensure that no one wipes the other out. A hidden modifier, that forces Spain and Portugal to be friendly, yet that forces both to trains Privateers; at least until 19th Century would be nice....

Agreed. Oh the list of possible AI improvements.

 

[strijder20]

Make it so Portuguese workers can build slave plantations.

Or make Portuguese slaves able to build all improvements?

 

[therox]

Like i said feitorias should give defensive bonuses and every colony should receive a free worker(or something related)

 

[Bair_the_Normal]

Make the whipping cost a little bit less, or lessen the anger penalty for whipping?

 

[Leoreth]

The more I think about this, the more I like the free resettlement effect.

 

[SheaferDaDawg]

Yes, but if it doesn't stack with regular resettlement then what's the point? How about letting it stack, or maybe +1 for all cities 15 tiles away from Capital as an alternative...

 

[Noodz]

Another train of thought: historical portugal had a propension to build feitorias (trade outposts) in foreign territory and forcefully enlarged their share of south america (compare treaty of tordesillas vs treaty of madrid). This can be done in DoC, but it must be well timed to avoid having these outposts' borders culture-crushed. Not only that, it is not uncommon to see portugal proper culture-crushed by spanish culture.

I suggest a "power of trade outposts": foreign culture cannot push borders out of portuguese core and historical areas. This means that as long as portugal sticks to it's core and historical areas, it does not need to worry about foreign culture stealing territory. Of course foreign culture still affects stability, and the power does not protect portugal from culture flips.

This will also allow portugal to indiscriminately occupy the brazilian hinterland and maintain it's european shape even against a very strong spain.

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, but if it doesn't stack with regular resettlement then what's the point? How about letting it stack, or maybe +1 for all cities 15 tiles away from Capital as an alternative...

You don't have to research Astronomy to make use of it. Thanks to Carracks and African colonies, the Portuguese can start colonizing earlier than other Europeans.

 

[Jusos2108]

You don't have to research Astronomy to make use of it. Thanks to Carracks and African colonies, the Portuguese can start colonizing earlier than other Europeans.

But that's not a real advantage, since encouraging Portugal to settle colonies before Astronomy only cripples them, since their colonies aren't connected to Lisbon.

 

[strijder20]

But that's not a real advantage, since encouraging Portugal to settle colonies before Astronomy only cripples them, since their colonies aren't connected to Lisbon.

African colonies are, and the stability boost sticks. As long as they don't collapse it's not a problem anyway, they'll research Astronomy eventually.

 

[AOS9001]

I suggest a "power of trade outposts": foreign culture cannot push borders out of portuguese core and historical areas. This means that as long as portugal sticks to it's core and historical areas, it does not need to worry about foreign culture stealing territory. Of course foreign culture still affects stability, and the power does not protect portugal from culture flips.

After having Lisboa reduced to one tile of culture multiple times (both playing as Portugal and playing as other civs), I'm going to agree with this idea. It's unique and useful.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

African colonies are, and the stability boost sticks.

Indeed. Historically the Portugese explored and colonized Africa (da Gama) before the the Americas. This new UP would encourage that.

Also, as anyone who has played Persia into late game (for Domination perhaps, heh Jusos?) knows, the value of these "free Civics" lies in combining them with another "non-free" Civic.

For example, since Persia has free Occupation, it can run Viceroyalty/Imperialism at the same time, and get the benefits of both Occupation + Viceroyalty/Imperialism simultaneously. Ditto with the proposed Portugese UP.

This is why the Persian UP does not obsolete with Military Tradition, nor does my Portugese UP obsolete with Astronomy.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

I always go for double Occupation as Persia, seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[Leoreth]

You know their effects don't stack?