Kael
Deity
And the 21 civilizations.
New religions
- Thread starter blackCat
- Start date
And the 21 civilizations.
Rod
King
What I am really missing is the religion for the Orcs (or the Doviello).
There are two simple reasons for that :
Orcs (and Doviello) are forcefully razing every conquered (it is one of their traits).
It was always kind of annoying me , when I was not able to found any religion (normally I go for Octopus Overlords), that I can only accidentially get some religion and moreover I will never be able to conquer the Holy City of my Cult .. just imagine Orcs Zealot who are completely brainwashed and fanatically faithful in the Octopus Overlords and then - finally - after many fought battles - endless sacrifices and hardships - they reach the stairs of the sanctimony of their beloved gods and ... they burn it down !! (what a .. interesting way of celebrating the take over of the guardianship of the sanctimony of their gods ...)
The second aspect are the flavor texts of all the Orcs. See, Religion plays an important role in the Orc Civilopedia and it is even named - Cult of Ball (Fire)
- quite fitting you know.
There is everything already described - Rituals, Priests, Holy Places you name it , but ... there is no Cult of Ball in FFH ....
But I would like to make one suggestion to quick fix this issue.
Instead of creating a whole new religion, we simply take different names and looks of the Orcish Pagan Temples. (we simply declare the Cult of Ball to be an Ancient Faith that can get replaced by latter (more advanced) Religions like the Octopii etc.)
But in this case I would suggest to turn the whole holy city business into a .. 'hoard'.
What I mean is that whenever you conquer the city of Asheron the Red Dragon then you get his hoard (as a unit). Afterwards you can simply move this unit to your next city (or even stay in the city) and there you turn it into a wonder (a new hoard to gives gems, gold and silver).
Now we simply say that whenever you conquer a holy city you can get the same. You simply may move the 'Holy City Status' to one of your cities - you kind of refound the religion .. so in this case the Orcs will raze the Holy City, but afterwards (when they are sober again) they can declare one of their cities to be the new holy city and then (with a Great Priest) even rebuild the Shrine.
Like when the Hindus razed the Mosque of Ayodha in 1992 and then build a Hindu Temple in order to worship Lord Krishna. (Ayodha is supposed to be the birthplace of Krishna (a Hindu Deity) then when the Muslim Mughals conquered North India it was turned into a location for a Mosque then 15 years back the Hindus reversed history again).
There are two simple reasons for that :
Orcs (and Doviello) are forcefully razing every conquered (it is one of their traits).
It was always kind of annoying me , when I was not able to found any religion (normally I go for Octopus Overlords), that I can only accidentially get some religion and moreover I will never be able to conquer the Holy City of my Cult .. just imagine Orcs Zealot who are completely brainwashed and fanatically faithful in the Octopus Overlords and then - finally - after many fought battles - endless sacrifices and hardships - they reach the stairs of the sanctimony of their beloved gods and ... they burn it down !! (what a .. interesting way of celebrating the take over of the guardianship of the sanctimony of their gods ...)
The second aspect are the flavor texts of all the Orcs. See, Religion plays an important role in the Orc Civilopedia and it is even named - Cult of Ball (Fire)
- quite fitting you know.
There is everything already described - Rituals, Priests, Holy Places you name it , but ... there is no Cult of Ball in FFH ....
But I would like to make one suggestion to quick fix this issue.
Instead of creating a whole new religion, we simply take different names and looks of the Orcish Pagan Temples. (we simply declare the Cult of Ball to be an Ancient Faith that can get replaced by latter (more advanced) Religions like the Octopii etc.)
But in this case I would suggest to turn the whole holy city business into a .. 'hoard'.
What I mean is that whenever you conquer the city of Asheron the Red Dragon then you get his hoard (as a unit). Afterwards you can simply move this unit to your next city (or even stay in the city) and there you turn it into a wonder (a new hoard to gives gems, gold and silver).
Now we simply say that whenever you conquer a holy city you can get the same. You simply may move the 'Holy City Status' to one of your cities - you kind of refound the religion .. so in this case the Orcs will raze the Holy City, but afterwards (when they are sober again) they can declare one of their cities to be the new holy city and then (with a Great Priest) even rebuild the Shrine.
Like when the Hindus razed the Mosque of Ayodha in 1992 and then build a Hindu Temple in order to worship Lord Krishna. (Ayodha is supposed to be the birthplace of Krishna (a Hindu Deity) then when the Muslim Mughals conquered North India it was turned into a location for a Mosque then 15 years back the Hindus reversed history again).
Rod
King
There is one more idea. I really think that we have to many buildings and especially to many wonders in FFH.
But .. I do not suggest to remove any building or wonder, but in order to get my cities building menu clean and neat I have a MUCH better solution.
1) Wonders. See, an Eiffel Tower (or a Notre Dame or a Colloseum) was not build out of hot air. Somebody had the idea before. This person was agitating for years, trying to convince people around him, trying to persuade the authority, to get the fundings - you get it. Normally he spends his whole lifetime for this dream of his.
This person is already represented in Civ .. it is a Great Person.
So what I suggest is that only by sacrificing a Great Person you may be able to build a Great Wonder, Naturally (like the Shrines) the different wonders belong to different spheres.Therefore only a Great Merchant can build the Lighthouse and only a Scientist the Tower of Necromancy.
(besides I would suggest to change scientists into Mages for this mod)
In this case you would not be overwhelmed by all these options (just try to play FFH in advanced ages (not starting from the beginning) and you understand what I mean).
2) Buildings. The thing is that there are several buildings that are advanced versions of buildings. So what I suggest is that instead of building an archery and then a bowery you need to have a certain number of archeries in order to build a bowery - like temples and cathedrals in Vanilla (you get it)
But .. I do not suggest to remove any building or wonder, but in order to get my cities building menu clean and neat I have a MUCH better solution.
1) Wonders. See, an Eiffel Tower (or a Notre Dame or a Colloseum) was not build out of hot air. Somebody had the idea before. This person was agitating for years, trying to convince people around him, trying to persuade the authority, to get the fundings - you get it. Normally he spends his whole lifetime for this dream of his.
This person is already represented in Civ .. it is a Great Person.
So what I suggest is that only by sacrificing a Great Person you may be able to build a Great Wonder, Naturally (like the Shrines) the different wonders belong to different spheres.Therefore only a Great Merchant can build the Lighthouse and only a Scientist the Tower of Necromancy.
(besides I would suggest to change scientists into Mages for this mod)
In this case you would not be overwhelmed by all these options (just try to play FFH in advanced ages (not starting from the beginning) and you understand what I mean).
2) Buildings. The thing is that there are several buildings that are advanced versions of buildings. So what I suggest is that instead of building an archery and then a bowery you need to have a certain number of archeries in order to build a bowery - like temples and cathedrals in Vanilla (you get it)
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Doviello don't have scortched earth, so they won't burn everything, and you can still get the religion you want by researching it even after the founder.
But the Holy city should probably be exempt, I agree, or else make the shrine into an item like the horde. Most of the shrines are not buildings, but books or signs of some kind. It's be a good way to approach with events, where if the Holy city was destroyed, and quest may pop-up to get a new one somewhere else...
Rex rgis of Ter
Me I'm a Creator
Would it be safe to assume the new religions will have something to do with espionage. Obviuosly Esus will be espionage oriented. Will Lugus' be for anti- espionage?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
That would make sense. Of course, the ability of lightbringers to scry would make the passive, city-line-of-sight espionage appropriate for them as well. It would be pretty cool if the active and passive roles of espionage could be somehow separated and tied to opposing religions.
So now everybody ... 
Imagine FFH version 3 or 4 with 21 religions
And if I have well understood, each civ should have his religion...
For instance
fellowship of leaves : Elves
runes of kilmorph : Dwarves
ashen veil : hyborem
octopus overlord : lanun (???!!!) (Chtulu for president 2008)
the order : bannor (or elohim)
cult of the dragon : kuriotates and sheaim
council of esus : dark elves
Empyrean : malakims
And I've read somewhere ... cult of bhaal : orcs
What do you think, gentlemen...
Imagine FFH version 3 or 4 with 21 religions
And if I have well understood, each civ should have his religion...
For instance
fellowship of leaves : Elves
runes of kilmorph : Dwarves
ashen veil : hyborem
octopus overlord : lanun (???!!!) (Chtulu for president 2008)
the order : bannor (or elohim)
cult of the dragon : kuriotates and sheaim
council of esus : dark elves
Empyrean : malakims
And I've read somewhere ... cult of bhaal : orcs
What do you think, gentlemen...
Nikis-Knight
Deity
No, no new religions until the next version (or possilble one after that.) I think you all finally have a chance to finish a game w/o a new patch or download.
Also, with 7 each can be nice and distinct, but with 21 there might not be much difference between many of them.
theoretically nice, but in any one game, more than a certain number (depending on the map or number of players) would not add much, as you wouldn't have religious blocks forming.
Also, with 7 each can be nice and distinct, but with 21 there might not be much difference between many of them.
Kael has said a few times he doesn't like sticking to a system where everything counters (or opposses, depending on the situation) something else.
Lucius Sulla
Gens Cornelia
Would it be possible a little spoiler about the Empyrean? I'm really curious about this new religion (specially considering how much I do enjoy playing Malakim).
Civkid1991
in shade of poison trees
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2006
- Messages
- 871
Make cult of the dragon capable of becoming a state religion
Create a new race of half-dragons? ^_^
im not too sure that follows any of the ffh lore
on another note... will the new unique features (such as mirror of heaven, pool of tears, etc) have any relation with the religions?
not sure if it goes with lore but would be interesting to see the first people to take control of a specific feature to gain the religion associated with it. Ex. Sepulture = Ashen Veil, Yggdrasil = Fellowship of the Leaves, etc)
Civkid1991
in shade of poison trees
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2006
- Messages
- 871
yes, i believe the pagan temple takes care of these... corporations as minor religions would be interesting...
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I'd still like the Cult of the dragon (and maybe a few more minor cuts yet to be added) should have some buildings and units that the city needs said cult in order to build. (A way to actively spread CotD other than the yet-to-be-implemented Evangelism mechanic would be nice. It would make Roar more useful.)
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Civkid, I really like your idea, though I'm not sure how it would work out in practice. But if those unique features weren't revealed before a certain tech, it might work out. But it might frustrate people to be denied the religion they wanted because someone else had long ago settled next to a landmark.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
The features founding the religions doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but some synergy between them could be nice. It wouldn't be hard to give them bonuses with religious civic. (I already added bonus food/gold/production and happiness to the Tomb of Sucellus and Yggdrasil with the Guardian of Nature civic)
It could be interesting for heroes, including religious heroes, to be tied to quests that could be tied to unique features. Sphener's entry made me think that he could be better gotten though a quest related to a new unique feature The Seven Pines. Apart from somehow giving access to Sphener (I'm not quite sure how), it would be cool if this spawned 21 items (if this is too much perhaps a chance for each of them), the symbols of each of the gods, each able to be passed from units to unit and each with a unique special ability. The possibilities for quests related to these items is almost endless.
It could be interesting for heroes, including religious heroes, to be tied to quests that could be tied to unique features. Sphener's entry made me think that he could be better gotten though a quest related to a new unique feature The Seven Pines. Apart from somehow giving access to Sphener (I'm not quite sure how), it would be cool if this spawned 21 items (if this is too much perhaps a chance for each of them), the symbols of each of the gods, each able to be passed from units to unit and each with a unique special ability. The possibilities for quests related to these items is almost endless.
