Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Yes I would be.
New terrain features
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
Yes I would be.
Grunthex
Prince
Quick question regarding a nearly-new terrain feature. Namely, tar pits. Can these be removed at all? Or are they permanently impassable? I'm trying to plot cities, and this tar is annoying me. 
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Dancing Hoskuld
Looking at the terrain mod i was not really impressed with any of the terrains. Many of them were the same graphics just renamed such as Alpine Tundra is the same as my Permafrost graphics. So I made a new chart to show how i think things should be. As you can see the terrain go in increments of 10% (except for the Dunes with is 5%).
The bottom row represents both tropical and temperate zones. The top 3 represent sub-polar and polar biomes. Unlike the maps I make we can have different types based on what terrain feature is on top. Thus say Taiga could be tundra terrain + snowy trees.
This why i think we should have terrain based on precipitation and not necessarily based on the type of flora that grows on it. For example ...
Muddy (80% precipitation) + Jungle = Tropical Rainforest
Muddy (80% precipitation) + Pine Forest = Temperate Rainforest
There are of course combos that should not be possible such as Tundra + Jungle but you get the idea.
As for naming currently i have ...
- 100% Precipitation = Coast, Sea, Ocean
- 90% Precipitation = Marsh
- 80% Precipitation = Muddy
- 70% Precipitation = Lush
- 60% Precipitation = Grassland
- 50% Precipitation = Plains
- 40% Precipitation = Barren, Tundra, Permafrost, Ice
- 30% Precipitation = Rocky
- 20% Precipitation = Scrub
- 10% Precipitation = Desert
- 5% Precipitation = Dunes
- 0% Precipitation = Salt Flats
-----
And based on that I think the following terrain features should be on them ...
- Ocean = None
- Sea = ?
- Coast = Kelp, Reef, Coral
- Marsh = Swamp, Papyrus, Sword Grass
- Muddy = Swamp, Papyrus, Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Sword Grass
- Lush = Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Sword Grass
- Grassland = Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Plains = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Barren = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Rocky = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Scrub = Savanna, Sword Grass, Prickly Pear, Barrel Cactus, Oasis, Flood Plains
- Desert = Prickly Pear, Barrel Cactus, Oasis, Flood Plains
- Dunes = Oasis
- Salt Flats = None
- Tundra = Swamp, Snow Forest
- Permafrost = None
- Ice = None
Not sure where the Coconut and Date Palms should go.
----
EDIT:
As for map generation it would work like this.
Ice Placement = Ice
Tundra Placement = Tundra, Permafrost
Desert Placement = Salt Flats, Dunes, Desert
Plains Placement = Scrub, Rocky, Barren
Grassland Placement = Plains, Grassland, Lush
Marsh Placement = Muddy, Marsh
So do you think you can make this work?
If so please use these stats for the terrain types.
EDIT2: Oh also wherever the volcano get place they should be placed on barren terrain. Since it most looks like volcanic terrain.
Looking at the terrain mod i was not really impressed with any of the terrains. Many of them were the same graphics just renamed such as Alpine Tundra is the same as my Permafrost graphics. So I made a new chart to show how i think things should be. As you can see the terrain go in increments of 10% (except for the Dunes with is 5%).
The bottom row represents both tropical and temperate zones. The top 3 represent sub-polar and polar biomes. Unlike the maps I make we can have different types based on what terrain feature is on top. Thus say Taiga could be tundra terrain + snowy trees.
This why i think we should have terrain based on precipitation and not necessarily based on the type of flora that grows on it. For example ...
Muddy (80% precipitation) + Jungle = Tropical Rainforest
Muddy (80% precipitation) + Pine Forest = Temperate Rainforest
There are of course combos that should not be possible such as Tundra + Jungle but you get the idea.
As for naming currently i have ...
- 100% Precipitation = Coast, Sea, Ocean
- 90% Precipitation = Marsh
- 80% Precipitation = Muddy
- 70% Precipitation = Lush
- 60% Precipitation = Grassland
- 50% Precipitation = Plains
- 40% Precipitation = Barren, Tundra, Permafrost, Ice
- 30% Precipitation = Rocky
- 20% Precipitation = Scrub
- 10% Precipitation = Desert
- 5% Precipitation = Dunes
- 0% Precipitation = Salt Flats
-----
And based on that I think the following terrain features should be on them ...
- Ocean = None
- Sea = ?
- Coast = Kelp, Reef, Coral
- Marsh = Swamp, Papyrus, Sword Grass
- Muddy = Swamp, Papyrus, Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Sword Grass
- Lush = Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Sword Grass
- Grassland = Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Plains = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Barren = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Rocky = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Scrub = Savanna, Sword Grass, Prickly Pear, Barrel Cactus, Oasis, Flood Plains
- Desert = Prickly Pear, Barrel Cactus, Oasis, Flood Plains
- Dunes = Oasis
- Salt Flats = None
- Tundra = Swamp, Snow Forest
- Permafrost = None
- Ice = None
Not sure where the Coconut and Date Palms should go.
----
EDIT:
As for map generation it would work like this.
Ice Placement = Ice
Tundra Placement = Tundra, Permafrost
Desert Placement = Salt Flats, Dunes, Desert
Plains Placement = Scrub, Rocky, Barren
Grassland Placement = Plains, Grassland, Lush
Marsh Placement = Muddy, Marsh
So do you think you can make this work?
If so please use these stats for the terrain types.
EDIT2: Oh also wherever the volcano get place they should be placed on barren terrain. Since it most looks like volcanic terrain.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
@Dancing Hoskuld
Looking at the terrain mod i was not really impressed with any of the terrains. Many of them were the same graphics just renamed such as Alpine Tundra is the same as my Permafrost graphics. So I made a new chart to show how i think things should be. As you can see the terrain go in increments of 10% (except for the Dunes with is 5%).
The bottom row represents both tropical and temperate zones. The top 3 represent sub-polar and polar biomes. Unlike the maps I make we can have different types based on what terrain feature is on top. Thus say Taiga could be tundra terrain + snowy trees.
This why i think we should have terrain based on precipitation and not necessarily based on the type of flora that grows on it. For example ...
Muddy (80% precipitation) + Jungle = Tropical Rainforest
Muddy (80% precipitation) + Pine Forest = Temperate Rainforest
There are of course combos that should not be possible such as Tundra + Jungle but you get the idea.
As for naming currently i have ...
- 100% Precipitation = Coast, Sea, Ocean
- 90% Precipitation = Marsh
- 80% Precipitation = Muddy
- 70% Precipitation = Lush
- 60% Precipitation = Grassland
- 50% Precipitation = Plains
- 40% Precipitation = Barren, Tundra, Permafrost, Ice
- 30% Precipitation = Rocky
- 20% Precipitation = Scrub
- 10% Precipitation = Desert
- 5% Precipitation = Dunes
- 0% Precipitation = Salt Flats
-----
And based on that I think the following terrain features should be on them ...
- Ocean = None
- Sea = ?
- Coast = Kelp, Reef, Coral
- Marsh = Swamp, Papyrus, Sword Grass
- Muddy = Swamp, Papyrus, Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Sword Grass
- Lush = Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Sword Grass
- Grassland = Jungle, Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Plains = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Barren = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Rocky = Pine Forest, Broadleaf Forest, Bamboo, Savanna, Sword Grass
- Scrub = Savanna, Sword Grass, Prickly Pear, Barrel Cactus, Oasis, Flood Plains
- Desert = Prickly Pear, Barrel Cactus, Oasis, Flood Plains
- Dunes = Oasis
- Salt Flats = None
- Tundra = Swamp, Snow Forest
- Permafrost = None
- Ice = None
Not sure where the Coconut and Date Palms should go.
----
EDIT:
As for map generation it would work like this.
Ice Placement = Ice
Tundra Placement = Tundra, Permafrost
Desert Placement = Salt Flats, Dunes, Desert
Plains Placement = Scrub, Rocky, Barren
Grassland Placement = Plains, Grassland, Lush
Marsh Placement = Muddy, Marsh
So do you think you can make this work?
If so please use these stats for the terrain types.
EDIT2: Oh also wherever the volcano get place they should be placed on barren terrain. Since it most looks like volcanic terrain.
Not sure I can do this. Certainly not in the short run. I don't understand what % Precipitation means and it may just be because I am from an island continent which is almost all "desert" but I don't think you have enough variety in that area.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well how specific do you want to get?
Here is how i would translate them ...
Equatorial
Rainforest (Monsoonal) = Marsh + Jungle
Savanna = Muddy + Savanna
Tropical
Rainforest (Persistent Wet) = Muddy + Jungle
Rainforest (Monsoonal) = Lush + Jungle
Savanna = Lush + Savanna
Subtropical
No Dry Season = Muddy + Forest
Distinctly Dry Summer = Lush + Forest
Distinctly Dry Winter = Grassland + Forest
Moderately Dry Winter = Plains + Forest
Desert
Hot (Persistent Dry) = Dunes
Hot (Summer Drought) = Desert
Hot (Winter Drought) = Desert + Cactus
Warm (Persistent Dry) = Scrub
Grassland
Hot (Persistent Dry) = Desert + Sword Grass
Hot (Summer Drought) = Scrub + Sword Grass
Hot (Winter Drought) = Plains + Sword Grass
Warm (Persistent Dry) = Grassland + Sword Grass
Warm (Summer Drought) = Barren + Sword Grass
Temperate
No Dry Season = Marsh + Pine
No Dry Season (Warm Summer) = Muddy + Pine
No Dry Season (Mild Summer) = Lush + Pine
No Dry Season (Cool Summer) = Marsh + Snow Pine
Moderate Dry Winter = Grassland + Pine
Moderate Dry Winter (Warm summer) = Plains + Pine
Distinctly Dry (and Mild) Summer = Barren + Pine
Distinctly Dry (and Warm) Summer = Scrub + Pine
Distinctly Dry (and Hot) Summer = Desert + Pine
*Phew*
I think that sounds about right.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Dancing Hoskuld
Now having tried a game with the new terrain features I am very impressed on how much better the maps are looking. The landmarks really make the game look pretty and much more interesting to explore. its making vanilla maps look boring.
Now having tried a game with the new terrain features I am very impressed on how much better the maps are looking. The landmarks really make the game look pretty and much more interesting to explore. its making vanilla maps look boring.
Sea: Banks.
Coast could have them too.
While we are talking terrain and yields: why doesn't Forest along River have the bonus commerce from river transporting? Only cleared areas do even though transporting logs of timber on rivers was very common.
Coast could have them too.
While we are talking terrain and yields: why doesn't Forest along River have the bonus commerce from river transporting? Only cleared areas do even though transporting logs of timber on rivers was very common.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I can only do stuff there are graphics for.
That has been a "feature" or "bug" in BtS for quite awhile.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Dancing Hoskuld
Is Bamboo working in the SVN version? I am not seeing any. Also saw only 1 coconut palms and no cactus or date palms. :/
Is Bamboo working in the SVN version? I am not seeing any. Also saw only 1 coconut palms and no cactus or date palms. :/
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I am getting too many coconuts at the moment. have not figured out how to do bamboo or savanna yet. My version has cactus and prickly pear. Not sure when to put date palms in. I am trying to get the animal spawn rate better.
I can only do stuff there are graphics for.
That has been a "feature" or "bug" in BtS for quite awhile.
Want it fixing?
It's easy enough to fix and I'd be all for fixing it. Same might be good for jungle too, and once the new features are added it would need to be decided which ones would have an extra commerce by river.
What might be a bug though is Jungle Camp. These get extra commerce if alongside river, but not if only a corner of the plot meets river. Grants Fresh Water but not the commerce bonus. Same goes for Lumber Mills.
Watermill I understand if it works that way, can't even build it if not alongside river.
What might be a bug though is Jungle Camp. These get extra commerce if alongside river, but not if only a corner of the plot meets river. Grants Fresh Water but not the commerce bonus. Same goes for Lumber Mills.
Watermill I understand if it works that way, can't even build it if not alongside river.
This applies to cities too - they are not considered river cities if the river is only corner-adjacent. I think it's deliberate, but obviously we can deliberately change it too ;-) More a question of consensus on what we want than any difficulty in implementation
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Ooohhh! This would be a long sought solution for me and My vigil over Jungle Camps. And would be a Welcome change to cities too.
And speaking of JC's the upper level roads (paved or better) still do not give the added hammer like the display says. Some tiles will give the extra hammer for PRd+ while others don't. Marsh vs grass vs Plain vs hill all seem to act differently in relation to the extra hammer the upgrade to roads is supposed to give. Don't know if the base tile terrain is the cause or not.
I tweaked my JC's in this version. Last version the AI used JC for awhile but would eventually chop all jungle and replace the camp with farms or cottages. If a resource was given then with a plantation or mine. This part was not unexpected.
JosEPh
And speaking of JC's the upper level roads (paved or better) still do not give the added hammer like the display says. Some tiles will give the extra hammer for PRd+ while others don't. Marsh vs grass vs Plain vs hill all seem to act differently in relation to the extra hammer the upgrade to roads is supposed to give. Don't know if the base tile terrain is the cause or not.
I tweaked my JC's in this version. Last version the AI used JC for awhile but would eventually chop all jungle and replace the camp with farms or cottages. If a resource was given then with a plantation or mine. This part was not unexpected.
JosEPh
Grunthex
Prince
I like in general the idea of riverside forests giving the same commerce boosts as riverside clearland, but is it possible to delay it techwise? Somewhere mid-Ancient or so?
Starting beside a river is such an incredible boost as it is that adding commerce to those squares just makes every forest start almost as good as flood plains. If it came in a little later (with the tech that allows trade along rivers?), it wouldn't be quite as strong.
Starting beside a river is such an incredible boost as it is that adding commerce to those squares just makes every forest start almost as good as flood plains. If it came in a little later (with the tech that allows trade along rivers?), it wouldn't be quite as strong.
Anything is POSSIBLE, but that's a lot harder.
philipschall
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2009
- Messages
- 221
Is there any way to not have the new terrain features get completely randomized when using a scenario? I'm currently trying to update the GEM, but it gets frustrating when coconuts spread everywhere, reefs go over seafood, and outcroppings disable starting city locations.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I did not realise it went over scenarios as well. the only way is to turn it off in the file init.xml in the config folder. I will have to see if I can distinguish between map generation and scenario playing, then put a switch in.
This would actually be quite simple to do in the PerfectWorld2f mapscript as it already calculates a rainfall/precipitation map with a kind of climate simulation. It also has a temperature and height map.
So the only change needed is to extend the part that assigns the terrains depending on those maps.
I can do that change to the PerfectWorld2f script if you want.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
That sounds awesome! What do you think Dancing Hoskuld? Could you add in the new terrain as well as tweak the old based on these stats?
